This thread is never going to end, and it's just turning into a political flame war from what I've read. Can we have a mod please lock this?
Obama
- Thread starter Xpwn3ntial
- Start date
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to all of you people thinking obama is the first president of his kind (except about being black) you need to do your history research
Here's my thoughts on this - though apparently they're not welcome as I'm not an American. Well, since your contry's leader started patting ours on the head and feeding him tid-bits from the table on occasion, I feel that - since our contries are now very interlocked on the international stage as you've ruined our support in Europe - I should be allowed to voice an opinion.
What *seems* to be the POV from Britain (though nautrally I don't speak for everyone) is that Obama is a good choice. Bush is a laughing stock in the rest of the world - if you don't see why that is a problem then I can't help you - basically, it means other countries, and indirectl their policies - don't respect Bush or his policies; thus making it very difficult for you (as a country) to gain support on international matters (just think about how hard it would have been to get support in attacking iran - US: "They have WMD's" rest of world: "Heard it before, you lied, get lost").
McCain was portrayed fairly by British media - someone with long-standing reputation in the Senate and a war veteran. However, it's a short while after his campaign gained Palin and started taking a Bush-style slant in it's messages/attacks on the other party/policies that the media started saying "This is how it compares to Bush - see the similarities?".
So, the international stage sees Obama as something different to Bush - and since McCain was eventually shown as Bush Mk2 - this is a good thing. It means that European politicians appear to be willing to wipe the slate clean regarding America/Bush's reputation and give the States a new chance. This means that foreign policy choices might be respected and even supported - a vital thing now that the global economy is in such a dire situation.
What always entertains me, as an outsider, to American politics - most notably in this campaign/pre-inauguration - is how you claim many of Obama's policies, such as free health care - to be "communist". Even the most liberal of politicians in your country are rather conservative by European standards. We (unless I am majorly wrong here) all have free health care, yet aren't having weekley military parades and calling each other "comrade". I know Europe and the States are like chalk and cheese, but perhaps you should be willing to give systems that are proven to work (not perfect, but functional) a chance, without media-oriented political labels?
With regards to other policies, backing out of Iraq is a good move. I assume you've heard (though I don't know for certain, American media has a bad rep about international news) the UK is drawing up plans for a withdrawl too - we're fed up with our governing partys' part in the war and the apparent continuing futility of the conflict, so if Obama didn't have an exit strategy planned then the US would find it's troops - already overstretched - entirely on their own. Pulling out - if only for a Term or two - would be a good move in this regard. The invasion/occupation/campaign is costing your contry (and ours, another reason for pulling out) extreme sums of money, something that is simply unsustainable in the current economic climate.
In short, I think Obama will be a good president for the United States as he is focusing on domestic policies, hoping to remove troops from a war which is not only costing trillions of dollars but causing all sorts of disuptes within the States, and by virtue of being different (politically) to Bush has already increased the United States' standing in the eyes of the rest of the Western world.
However, I feel that he will be a one-term President - a good one, but at the end of the term, even if the economy is straightned out (an achievement in itself in 4 years) people will not feel enough has changed individually (ie, they weren't all given free 48" plasma TVs), implying Obama hasn't done his job, and will not vote for him if he stands for re-election. Or, someone will try to asssassinate him (whether he's a fantastic president or not) due to deep-held racial/political/religeous beliefs, wrong or not.
Mind you, not that any of this post matters, since foreigners have already been told they've no business even commenting on American affairs by previous American posters (which makes me smile at the hypocrisy regarding America's history of getting involved with other countries on a variety of levels by a variety of methods), but I hope that it can at least spread some views to the American people about why Obama might be a good president from an international perspective.
What *seems* to be the POV from Britain (though nautrally I don't speak for everyone) is that Obama is a good choice. Bush is a laughing stock in the rest of the world - if you don't see why that is a problem then I can't help you - basically, it means other countries, and indirectl their policies - don't respect Bush or his policies; thus making it very difficult for you (as a country) to gain support on international matters (just think about how hard it would have been to get support in attacking iran - US: "They have WMD's" rest of world: "Heard it before, you lied, get lost").
McCain was portrayed fairly by British media - someone with long-standing reputation in the Senate and a war veteran. However, it's a short while after his campaign gained Palin and started taking a Bush-style slant in it's messages/attacks on the other party/policies that the media started saying "This is how it compares to Bush - see the similarities?".
So, the international stage sees Obama as something different to Bush - and since McCain was eventually shown as Bush Mk2 - this is a good thing. It means that European politicians appear to be willing to wipe the slate clean regarding America/Bush's reputation and give the States a new chance. This means that foreign policy choices might be respected and even supported - a vital thing now that the global economy is in such a dire situation.
What always entertains me, as an outsider, to American politics - most notably in this campaign/pre-inauguration - is how you claim many of Obama's policies, such as free health care - to be "communist". Even the most liberal of politicians in your country are rather conservative by European standards. We (unless I am majorly wrong here) all have free health care, yet aren't having weekley military parades and calling each other "comrade". I know Europe and the States are like chalk and cheese, but perhaps you should be willing to give systems that are proven to work (not perfect, but functional) a chance, without media-oriented political labels?
With regards to other policies, backing out of Iraq is a good move. I assume you've heard (though I don't know for certain, American media has a bad rep about international news) the UK is drawing up plans for a withdrawl too - we're fed up with our governing partys' part in the war and the apparent continuing futility of the conflict, so if Obama didn't have an exit strategy planned then the US would find it's troops - already overstretched - entirely on their own. Pulling out - if only for a Term or two - would be a good move in this regard. The invasion/occupation/campaign is costing your contry (and ours, another reason for pulling out) extreme sums of money, something that is simply unsustainable in the current economic climate.
In short, I think Obama will be a good president for the United States as he is focusing on domestic policies, hoping to remove troops from a war which is not only costing trillions of dollars but causing all sorts of disuptes within the States, and by virtue of being different (politically) to Bush has already increased the United States' standing in the eyes of the rest of the Western world.
However, I feel that he will be a one-term President - a good one, but at the end of the term, even if the economy is straightned out (an achievement in itself in 4 years) people will not feel enough has changed individually (ie, they weren't all given free 48" plasma TVs), implying Obama hasn't done his job, and will not vote for him if he stands for re-election. Or, someone will try to asssassinate him (whether he's a fantastic president or not) due to deep-held racial/political/religeous beliefs, wrong or not.
Mind you, not that any of this post matters, since foreigners have already been told they've no business even commenting on American affairs by previous American posters (which makes me smile at the hypocrisy regarding America's history of getting involved with other countries on a variety of levels by a variety of methods), but I hope that it can at least spread some views to the American people about why Obama might be a good president from an international perspective.
That's because there are entire websites up that are dedicated to the assassination of Barack Obama. I'm very glad that the inauguration went without incident (Aside from Kennedy's huge head giving him a seizure)Ruzzian Roulette said:
Somebody once pointed out that somehow the US government taxed a company into layoffs. This is crap. It is physically impossible to do that, as:
1. Labour costs are tax-deductible. In essence, companies simply deduct the cost of their labour from their taxes, along with virtually every other cost. The most likely effect of a high corporate tax rate is that you will see lowered profit margins as companies sink more money back into themselves.
1. Labour costs are tax-deductible. In essence, companies simply deduct the cost of their labour from their taxes, along with virtually every other cost. The most likely effect of a high corporate tax rate is that you will see lowered profit margins as companies sink more money back into themselves.
