Objectification? Sexualization? What do the ladies think?
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from my experience with porn, oh yea, its male exploitation like no other XD its using that primitive part of the male brain that will turn anything into a sex-thing and getting money out of it... it has its function, giving guys what they want when they're horny, and women have harliquin romance novels, so really we're just as bad... though i'll be honest, i've read FanFiction with better writing then a lot of those Delta of Venus knock-offs, and porn is very 'simple', its there for one function and one function only, to get people all 'hot and bothered' XD so yea, hey if you like your job, woo~ go for it, men or women~ me? yea... no thanks XDTerramax said:
as for the second point, i CAN debate that, just for the fun of doing it really
monogamous relationships were our evolutionary answer to have higher birthrates and child mortality, course that was when we were more primitive, since its easier for a male to invest in a low number of children from one mate they knew is theirs, and a female could have that male that was 'nicer' instead of the Alpha who's more then likely just a dick XD with less chance of having her children killed off because some 'new guy' came around... for nowadays? *shrugs* it still has its uses, personally i feel we are monogamous, its in our design, but does that mean we should feel shame for being with others? no, we shouldn't, no one should, i mean it makes sense to test out who you want to spend your life with right? or to just go out and do what you want because you feel like it? *shrugs* i'm one of those 'rare' i guess people who found my husband and we've pretty much enjoyed each other and are happy with that, neither of us really having a desire for others, but we both know plenty of people that are into poly or just casual relationships and hey, if that's your bag~ like the above... though for the sake of argument, both me and hubby are kinda getting tired of all the wangst about bad-relationships being heaped on us and looking for 'answers' or something and another for sake of argument, if i remember my ratios correctly i believe we're at 1-2 men-women in population, as in overall, it changes for areas, but i haven't checked it in awhile and with all this 'estrogen-saturation' of the environment i believe male population has been on the decline world-wide... there's a documentary called 'The Disappearing Male' i believe, kinda creepy really... course it does beg the question, if there's more women, why not have more stuff geared towards us? XD woo~ back on-topic!! XD
yea, the 'creepy scientist' dude, that's Maeda from the first game BTW... XD he actually hasn't changed one bit XD just graphics upgrade
but again, this was another of those moments where i was growling at the obvious not-use of 'Mitochondria' since Maeda, of ANYONE would be tweaking on that, since he was the walking Deus-Ex that kinda pointed it out in the first game *sigh* but if i remember correctly you should be about 2 chapters to the end, there's only two big fights after Maeda, Kyle and the Twisted Queen, then there should be a kinda boss rush against the 'REAL BOSS' and then cutscene awesome at the end... but like i said previously, 3rd Birthday really is just FANSERVICE to those that love the Parasite Eve franchise, i don't think they were even trying to get 'new people' in on it, since from the moment the game starts, with the Remix of Kyrie... *sigh* yep... BTW, Kyrie is the song played in the intro video for PE1, in fact most of the music played in 3rd is a remix of the PE1 music, i don't recall much of anything from PE2 really, other then 'it happened' and there's Eve and Kyle... and honestly you're supposed to feel absolutely 'down' at that point really, it IS effectively the 'low point' of the whole roller-coaster, just story-wise, and with Maeda provides the biggest hint something isn't 'right' about 'Aya', cause even Maeda notices she isn't quite the women he met back in '97... tweaky Deus-Ex-dude...
personally i played it all in one sitting honestly
so other then my being a fan that may have also added to the whole 'loving it!' thing~ then i played it again, cause i wanted to see the ending again XD only 'work' made me put it down XD but also i wanted to pick it a part, as is my nature, i love things in their own context, then i like to do them again just to find the fine details... plus there was a lot i had to make sense of, cause yea, the ending is really a mind screw if you REALLY think about it too hard... gameplay? its just another silly shooter thing, though i did like its setup, it was interesting... though honestly i wish Eve had a 'real' Liberate form instead of just powering up with duel-pistol-energy-shots XD but again~ silly game~and just to state, as a point to be back 'on topic', i WAS just using Aya as an example of a 'good female protagonist' that wasn't Bayonetta that everyone was talking about
and for the sake of argument, here's some other Female Protagonists~ from games i guess no one else really played XDJen - Primal
Shion Uzuki/KOS-MOS - Xenosaga Series
Rayne - BloodRayne (honestly who Bayonetta reminds me of the most other then Dante XD)
Major Dunya - Alien vs. Predator 2: Primal Hunt
Alice - American Mcgee's Alice/Alice: Madness Returns
Kate Wilson - Hydrophobia Prophecy
Chell - Portal (though no one really knew it till the end XD)
Kurenai - Red Ninja
Yuna/Rikku/Paine - Final Fantasy X-2
...to name a few i played, so i know they're the primary characters and decent female characters... or i just had fun with them and wasn't 'offended' by 'objectification' (yes even Kurenai and Rayne, shush~) there's a ton of other games i could throw out, with other great female characters, but like i said, i've actually played these, and they really are the 'stars' and not just half with some guy, like Resident Evil, or 'party members' in various other games... though i will say 'yes, i know Xenosaga is a 'party' game like FF' but really the STORY is all about those two, so i throw it in here too... i just find it funny that whenever someone asks 'name a female protagonist' they typically put out 'Laura Croft' and now 'Bayonetta'... when i can go on about any of these MShes *points at list* with ease~ but i guess its just that they're not as 'famous' games so no one really cares *shrugs* oh well, i'm looking forward to Remember Me and Beyond: Two Souls to add to my list honestly
well, i'm not going to say there isn't a male-mentality that is in place that makes it difficult for women to be seen as equal, i've experienced it a lot personally, i don't NEED some woman in a business suit who feels 'empowered' by the fact she has ovaries to tell me it exists, but i get the same kind of bullshit from THOSE kinds of women too, because i don't fit into their structured notions of 'what it means to be women', that and i just don't like feminists, the ones i've met at least, they're just as bad as THOSE men, i know its not the entire gender on either side, but seriously its annoying... especially getting it from both sides...matthew_lane said:
so, they're 'right', sorta... but their methods are just as detrimental honestly, the only way to get 'over it' is pretty much remove 'gender' from the equation, i've met quite a number of people that are true 'gender-equalists', what 'feminism' was 'supposed' to be, and i get along with those people fine, its those that feel a need to stick their testees/ovaries into things and waggle them around like that's a reason to say they're 'better' that annoys me...
well, that's obvious, but just because a person i work with is attracted to me (be they male or female) doesn't mean they should use that as a reason to be a complete dick to me... when we stop letting our libido run everything the world is a pretty spiffy place, or lightly joking about and not taking things so seriously, i'm not sure what the 'balance' is persay, but physically i can say without a doubt i shouldn't be that attractive (i think 'physically' my best features are wide hips and broad shoulders *shrugs*) yet i still get people always 'pursuing' me or treating me different due to the fact i'm a woman, when in our society that shouldn't be as much of an issue as it is, yet even when i prove my prowess i'm regaled to 'male' territory, like i've been stripped of everything that makes me physically a woman because i don't display female characteristics? why? with how developed our minds our, why can't we just 'ignore' that for a bit and treat me or anyone else as just a person, to be judged by our actions, not our 23rd chromosome pair?Big_Willie_Styles said:
as for 'what people find attractive', you got me buddy, because it is my experience people are attracted to whatever it is specifically to them, males 'generally' like females, and females 'generally' like males, but we all know that's not 'universal' or an 'absolute', Ie: with gay/lesbian/trans people, i'm a rather prime example because quite honestly i get hit on by anything and don't know why, i would have to say its my open personality XD there's a lot of psychology that often times overrides biology, so you can't rely on physical features for anything really when it comes to attraction... in the sense of the topic, for guys, in general, its easier because men are more visually attracted, slap on boobs it will sell, while women in general (and speaking from experience) we're more 'mental', its not one thing particularly its the whole package; physical, personality, and actions... its 'harder' to peg what will attract a woman, and i guess we just have an easier time turning that part of our brains off and dissociating from it *shrugs* not that there aren't women that go for physical things (my one girlfriend has a thing for the guy from Gears of War and i suspect it has nothing to do with the 'story' XD) and there are guys that want 'more' then just T&A... who knows, its a difficult thing to answer and personally i feel that the sooner people stop making gender an 'issue' the sooner we'll get more awesome stories, things being shot down for stupid reasons like 'Heroine, oh noes~' and better T/D&A for everyone~ (i can live without the latter personally XD)
and things are 'inherited' and things are 'learned', its the ages old debate of 'nature vs. nurture', everyone has a different amount of it, but we are affected by the world around us just as there are parts of us that can never be altered because they were there from the beginning... many peoples' attractions are affected by society around them, those that disassociate from society will more then likely not be as affected, but this all deals with the development of an 'individual' and hooboy that's some deep and speculative stuff XD short answer is 'yes' we are affected by what we are exposed to, it shapes us as much as our genes do and these two natures are always clashing in some ways... what 'attracts us' falls into this, part is genetic, part is societal exposure, you can't really blame one over the other...
The female characters in league of legends have been center of many debates and I'd like to use a few of them as examples here.
first of we got Ahri, she is a mystical fox who stole human soles from men to become more human. she is a seductress by lore.
her looks reflect her character and it fits well.
then we got miss fortune, she is a pirate hunter and naturally uses her female attributes to gain advantage over men. I dont think its as fitting here, her sexyness could be badassery instead to add to diversity of the female champions in lol.
her new splash art also demonstrates an interesstingly flexible spine. Its to look more dynamic, naturally...
and then we got caitlynn, she is the sheriff of piltover, sniper and sounds a bit british.
I dont think her look comunicates her character at all, her outfit also looks kinda weird, more like a wannabe sexy harlequin and her quotes are as akwardly sexy aswell.
recent female champions had a better treatment, for example Diana, Vi, Lissandra and Quinn (people complain that they cant tell that Quinn is female, as if thats so utterly important). An old champion, Sejuani even got a rework, making her more viable to play and giving her proper armor that suits her viking-like style instead of her former 'furkini'.
Bodytypes on female champions are still widely very similar.
male and female characters should be designed to fit who they are or supposed to be, they dont need to be supermodels all the time, infact none of them should be designed to foremostly appeal as sexual partners, they should appeal as characters. gender is only a part of that and is often too much in the focus.
first of we got Ahri, she is a mystical fox who stole human soles from men to become more human. she is a seductress by lore.
her looks reflect her character and it fits well.
then we got miss fortune, she is a pirate hunter and naturally uses her female attributes to gain advantage over men. I dont think its as fitting here, her sexyness could be badassery instead to add to diversity of the female champions in lol.
and then we got caitlynn, she is the sheriff of piltover, sniper and sounds a bit british.
recent female champions had a better treatment, for example Diana, Vi, Lissandra and Quinn (people complain that they cant tell that Quinn is female, as if thats so utterly important). An old champion, Sejuani even got a rework, making her more viable to play and giving her proper armor that suits her viking-like style instead of her former 'furkini'.
Bodytypes on female champions are still widely very similar.
male and female characters should be designed to fit who they are or supposed to be, they dont need to be supermodels all the time, infact none of them should be designed to foremostly appeal as sexual partners, they should appeal as characters. gender is only a part of that and is often too much in the focus.
What benefit, though? The benefit of... attention? Why should a person be allowed to toss out that particular net with zero risk? (I need to specify here: I'm not deploying anything remotely close to a justification for rape here; negative responses should always be commensurate with stimuli). Yes, I can be the bigger person and just ignore the girl who tries to get a free drink off me with a low cut shirt, but I'm also well within my rights as a sentient being to offer her negative feedback.Darken12 said:
Except they're not acting or performing unless the audience is in on the joke. You can't just wander up to someone, flirt your ass off, then laugh it all off as pretend - not without incurring a decent amount of well-deserved flak.
This is probably why so many women wear sexy dresses by themselves at home.
I'll tell you what I see a lot of in these arguments: people wanting their behavior to be emotionally unique. They want to dress up in revealing clothing and enjoy the attention and confidence this brings without also being pigeon-holed into the role of a tease or an attention whore. This is nonsense; very rarely does anyone dress or act seductively with the express intent of duping or screwing with someone. It's almost always a byproduct - but that doesn't make it any less frustrating or hurtful or deserving of commensurate negative response.
The thing that bothers me most about these discussions is the notion that extroversion should always yield positive results. Bullshit. If you want to express yourself in a public place through affecting behavior, prepare for the possibility of negative reactions. You don't get to designate the terms of engagement because you're some bright special snowflake. Put yourself out there, wear the revealing clothes, act sultry and seductive, by all means. If it works out for you, great. Just don't be surprised if you also piss off a few people. And prepare for some unkind words.
You are assuming that every girl with a low-cut shirt who acts flirty with everyone is out to get a free drink out of you or has some other manipulative intent. That's the problem. Some people enjoy A) dressing sexily, and/or B) being flirty with everyone/their preferred gender. It doesn't actually have to mean anything.FieryTrainwreck said:
Uh, yes, yes they can. That is literally exactly what happens. The people who do that presume that everyone else is in on the joke because usually they are.
As I stated above: you are starting from an unproven assertion, which is that everyone who does X is out to gain Y. The rest of the argument collapses if you remove that assertion.
While it is within your rights to refuse interaction with people you do not like, the rules of civility (upon which the very wellbeing of civilisation are based) dictate that it is unwarranted to attack another person unless they have actually caused you harm. A person who dresses in X way and acts in Y way, assuming X and Y are harmless, is an invalid target of verbal assault. In layman's terms, you don't actually have the right to verbally lambast people you don't like simply because they exist. Under that very logic, the extroverted people could verbally lambast you the moment your presumably quiet and understated self walks in their vicinity, simply because they can't tolerate your introverted mien and consider you ought to prepare yourself for unkind words the moment you leave your house dressed/acting like that.
I would advise you to see how it feels to have your argument applied unto yourself before dispensing it so freely. As an introvert who finds extroverts tiresome and grating, I find such arguments to be quite harmful to the peaceful coexistence of both personality types.
That's funny because I AM a thirty something, brown-haired male and I play video games to escape from being me! Much to the chagrin of my wife, I don't mind playing a game as a female character as it gives me an opportunity to experience an environment from a different perspective to that of the male appendage endowed flesh suit that I inhabit. However it's hard to pass that off as a valid reason given all she sees on screen are two gravity defying, mammoth sweater puppies and a waist that could not support their immense weight.DioWallachia said:And lo and behold:
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/the-big-picture/3281-The-Numbers
Captcha: Vocal Minority. Indeed...
I have no idea. I am not a woman.
But if you want my opinion, the last place you would want to ask this question is the Escapist as it mostly consists of men and they will only tend to provide links to women they specifically agree with and fall neatly within their usually awful worldview.
I think of my sister who loves video games she pretty much avoids games that foster that 'boys club' mentality. And from my perspective that is just completely unfair to her because there exists tons of games that otherwise would be 'great' if they didn't do the whole cheesecake/boys club objectify song and dance.
Also to the peeps talking about Feminism, please keep in mind that Feminism is a very large school of thought and that when a Feminist speaks of objectification or some other thing they mean something with much more nuance and complexity than just dictionary definitions. Feminism itself stands alone much like any other various fields of thought. I hate seeing people keep defining feminism based on a few feminists, that is completely disingenuous, there is much discussion among feminists and disagreements but are typically respectful as they are meant to build upon an already established bundle of ideas. Hence, if you do not know anything of feminism, its best not to speak of it as you will appear foolish.
But if you want my opinion, the last place you would want to ask this question is the Escapist as it mostly consists of men and they will only tend to provide links to women they specifically agree with and fall neatly within their usually awful worldview.
I think of my sister who loves video games she pretty much avoids games that foster that 'boys club' mentality. And from my perspective that is just completely unfair to her because there exists tons of games that otherwise would be 'great' if they didn't do the whole cheesecake/boys club objectify song and dance.
Also to the peeps talking about Feminism, please keep in mind that Feminism is a very large school of thought and that when a Feminist speaks of objectification or some other thing they mean something with much more nuance and complexity than just dictionary definitions. Feminism itself stands alone much like any other various fields of thought. I hate seeing people keep defining feminism based on a few feminists, that is completely disingenuous, there is much discussion among feminists and disagreements but are typically respectful as they are meant to build upon an already established bundle of ideas. Hence, if you do not know anything of feminism, its best not to speak of it as you will appear foolish.
As yes, more "complex" definitions. Which i am SURE u can provide a link to, right? at least some of the Feminists CAN explain their own actions, right? they are not making definitions out of their asses to pretend they know what they are talking about, right?Quadocky said:
And even if u give a link to a definition, what are the chances of being a minority of feminists? Even if you can link to a book, if reality doesn't match up to the standards of the very book the Feminists are quoting too, then its completely useless.
I will stick to the facts that she provides, thank you very much:
Wanna bet?
Those Feminists are recognized as the "mainstream" ones, not the "radical" ones. So can you illuminate me on what happened there?
You know what is funny? is was made by a gamer guy on its spare time. One would think that, a filthy sick mass murdering gamer (as we are told) would jump to the opportunity to make his "ideal" female in the most sexual objectivistic way ever, since there is NOTHING stopping him from doing so, right? i mean, its a fucking gamer, the lowest of humanity, the posterboy for "entitlement", and MovieBob watchers. It is an absolute fact of life (like death, taxes, and game journalists being 100% objective all the time) that these mindless drones will jump to the opportunity to fulfill their darkest desires, for they are entitled and smell alot, right?Ikasury said:HELLO~ i'll DEFINITELY have to look into thisDioWallachia said:
i should look more into Indie games...
And yet....
