Official Discussion about the new Forum Rules

[Metal Brother]

Great rules.

I participate in a variety of online forums and moderate a few more. Some are community forums like this one, others are professional or technical forums. I believe that these rules are very well written and could apply to just about any online community site out there. Great work!

 

[Exosus]

The Escapist moderators will not punish you for an opinion. They will punish you if you add flames to that opinion. If you see a smartass comment someone made regarding your opinion, report it. Don't feed it.

I've been to other forums, the moderator teams on a lot of them don't work that well and will only punish the ones who do extreme trolling (I.E. posting gore pictures or porn). I'd rather have the moderators who actually stick to their guns to those who just let the forum burn.

I love that allowing people to express an opinion in a "smartass" way is "let[ting] the forum burn."

EDIT: Fixed a quotation mark.

 

[maddawg IAJI]

The Escapist moderators will not punish you for an opinion. They will punish you if you add flames to that opinion. If you see a smartass comment someone made regarding your opinion, report it. Don't feed it.

I've been to other forums, the moderator teams on a lot of them don't work that well and will only punish the ones who do extreme trolling (I.E. posting gore pictures or porn). I'd rather have the moderators who actually stick to their guns to those who just let the forum burn.

I love that allowing people to express an opinion in a "smartass" way is "let[ting] the forum burn."

EDIT: Fixed a quotation mark.

Wouldn't this be considered a smartass remark in itself?

And moderators can't catch everything. They track based on reports, no reports, no mod wrath. Its not a difficult system to understand.

 

[maddawg IAJI]

The Escapist moderators will not punish you for an opinion. They will punish you if you add flames to that opinion. If you see a smartass comment someone made regarding your opinion, report it. Don't feed it.

I've been to other forums, the moderator teams on a lot of them don't work that well and will only punish the ones who do extreme trolling (I.E. posting gore pictures or porn). I'd rather have the moderators who actually stick to their guns to those who just let the forum burn.

I love that allowing people to express an opinion in a "smartass" way is "let[ting] the forum burn."

EDIT: Fixed a quotation mark.

Wouldn't this be considered a smartass remark in itself?

And moderators can't catch everything. They track based on reports, no reports, no mod wrath. Its not a difficult system to understand.

It's not a difficult system to understand, but it is flawed. If they only mod things that get reported, isn't it really the users who are policing themselves then? I don't understand why it's so hard for the mods to peruse the forums with relying solely on the report system. If a place that moves as fast as 4chan can keep up better than this place, there's something wrong.

And if the 'pist wants to outlaw sarcasm and smartassedness, fine. But A) I think it's sad that we have to cater to the oversensitive types and B) I don't get how a site can have Zero Punctuation as it's main draw and tell us snark is bad.

How can it be a flawed system? Your local police department uses the same one. They respond to calls (reports) given from the community (The user base). The Police don't see everything, they often rely on us to help them stop crimes and to report them as well and yes, I know its a little tasteless to compare the mods to the men in blue, but its one of the better examples of the system working. With a large user base such as ours, nothing really ever goes unnoticed here.

Sarcasm and Smartassness doesn't mean you have to insult people and if we're dealing with ZP, then the phrase, "do as I say, not as I do." comes to mind. In this case, we follow the rules the staff members tell us, we don't imitate the shows they choose to back.

 

[Exosus]

The Escapist moderators will not punish you for an opinion. They will punish you if you add flames to that opinion. If you see a smartass comment someone made regarding your opinion, report it. Don't feed it.

I've been to other forums, the moderator teams on a lot of them don't work that well and will only punish the ones who do extreme trolling (I.E. posting gore pictures or porn). I'd rather have the moderators who actually stick to their guns to those who just let the forum burn.

I love that allowing people to express an opinion in a "smartass" way is "let[ting] the forum burn."

EDIT: Fixed a quotation mark.

Wouldn't this be considered a smartass remark in itself?

And moderators can't catch everything. They track based on reports, no reports, no mod wrath. Its not a difficult system to understand.

I have little doubt that it is considered a smartass remark in itself. Somehow I, and moreover the rest of the thread, are managing not to bleed out on the floor as a result. This follow-up smartass remark, however, will undoubtedly be the killing blow, the death knell of enjoyment the forum has long been avoiding.

 

[maddawg IAJI]

The Escapist moderators will not punish you for an opinion. They will punish you if you add flames to that opinion. If you see a smartass comment someone made regarding your opinion, report it. Don't feed it.

I've been to other forums, the moderator teams on a lot of them don't work that well and will only punish the ones who do extreme trolling (I.E. posting gore pictures or porn). I'd rather have the moderators who actually stick to their guns to those who just let the forum burn.

I love that allowing people to express an opinion in a "smartass" way is "let[ting] the forum burn."

EDIT: Fixed a quotation mark.

Wouldn't this be considered a smartass remark in itself?

And moderators can't catch everything. They track based on reports, no reports, no mod wrath. Its not a difficult system to understand.

I have little doubt that it is considered a smartass remark in itself. Somehow I, and moreover the rest of the thread, are managing not to bleed out on the floor as a result. This follow-up smartass remark, however, will undoubtedly be the killing blow, the death knell of enjoyment the forum has long been avoiding.

Funny, I seem to enjoy being here. The rules haven't change either, the Mods have been punishing with the unwritten "Don't be a Jerk" rule since the forum was founded and I'd say they've only gotten more and more lenient.

And you see your own flaw in there. I found what you said to be a smart-ass remark, you did not. Its a matter of perspective between the writer and the receiver. And please, cut the theatrics out, if you don't enjoy being here, then why are you here?

 

[maddawg IAJI]

How can it be a flawed system? Your local police department uses the same one. They respond to calls (reports) given from the community (The user base). The Police don't see everything, they often rely on us to help them stop crimes and to report them as well and yes, I know its a little tasteless to compare the mods to the men in blue, but its one of the better examples of the system working. With a large user base such as ours, nothing really ever goes unnoticed here.

Sarcasm and Smartassness doesn't mean you have to insult people and if we're dealing with ZP, then the phrase, "do as I say, not as I do." comes to mind. In this case, we follow the rules the staff members tell us, we don't imitate the shows they choose to back.

Eh, I see your point but just because a system is used in more than one place doesn't mean it's not necessarily flawed. The part of that I do have to disagree with is:

With a large user base such as ours, nothing really ever goes unnoticed here.

I see so much stuff that is downright insulting that goes unremarked (probably because whoever got insulted didn't cry and hit the 'report' button when their precious feelings got hurt...on the internet <_<) when seemingly inocuous comments get dinged. Again, while I'd prefer they not be so strict, if they want to-fine-but with strict rules you need stricter moderation. You can't expect people to follow a stricter regiment than the people in charge enforce. It leads to confusion and frustration.

And if the site says they don't want us to post sex jokes and what not 'because it's not appropriate for the children', how does that work with the videos then? It seems downright hypocritical. My words are inappropriate but Yahtzee's aren't? How are the kids being corrupted by my speech not even more screwed up by ZP? 'Doing as I say, not as I do' is a shitty way to run anything where you're trying to influence someone's behaviour.

People on the forums don't look at Yahtzee as a role-model, if they do, they don't belong here in the first place. Forum users look at the older members for guidance on how to act while here. If everyone followed Yahtzee's way of debating, this entire forum would be made up of making dick jokes.

Also, just because the person doesn't get probation doesn't mean they were not noticed. Moderators give out warnings first, then move to Probation. It depends on what was said before hand, what that user has done in the past and when was the last time he received a warning.

Finally, the rules aren't stricter. I don't know how many times I need to say this, they are the same rules we originally followed. The Don't Be a Jerk rule is just no longer unwritten.

 

[maddawg IAJI]

Also, just because the person doesn't get probation doesn't mean they were not noticed. Moderators give out warnings first, then move to Probation. It depends on what was said before hand, what that user has done in the past and when was the last time he received a warning.

Please don't sit there and try to tell me the mods don't miss stuff. Two examples out of the many I've witnessed: Someone calling someone else a 'fucking idiot', which I think is definitely calling someone a jerk. So that post that doesn't get modded gets seen by people who then think "Well, THAT'S not modded so I should be able to say this" Which is why I think that checking only the report queue is a flawed system. If someone called me a fucking idiot, I wouldn't be so devastated I had to report him. And the other one I saw was a .gif of a pig getting it's head cut off with a chainsaw. Really?

Please link me those posts then and I will be sure the Moderators get them and deal with them. You're right, that kinda conduct shouldn't be missed, but shit happens. I won't try and deny that the mods don't miss some things, but they do require some assistance on our part to find these trolls and flamers. Its not a sign of weakness to hit the report button, but rather the ability to know when someone is losing their cool and that the conversation is just gonna go south.

Finally, the rules aren't stricter. I don't know how many times I need to say this, they are the same rules we originally followed. The Don't Be a Jerk rule is just no longer unwritten.

OK, here I worded my post badly. I'm fully aware that the rules are no stricter than they used to be. They are stricter than a lot of other sites though. And my point was merely that if you're going to have rules stricter than the norm, you need to enforce them equally as stringently or it looks bad. Again, while I'd prefer an opener forum the only things that bother me are the vagueness of the rules and the inconsistency of the moderation.

Again, the Mods do require some assistance from us in order to work to their fullest extent. If you spot an inconsistency in the moderation, for example, a post similar to another that got mod wrath, then feel free to take it up with a Moderator. I'm not gonna deny that inconsistency isn't a problem (They aren't a full time mod-team after all and they do have lives to live outside of this, especially around this time when they're all spending time with the families or finishing up Midterms in college.), which is why it is important to point them out.

Edit:

And you see your own flaw in there. I found what you said to be a smart-ass remark, you did not. Its a matter of perspective between the writer and the receiver. And please, cut the theatrics out, if you don't enjoy being here, then why are you here?

Yeah, double post. This is my point on the inconsistency with a vague rule like 'Don't be a jerk' There's obviously a difference of opinion on whether the post you speak of is offensive. I don't think it even warrants a second look, personally. So some find it offensive, some don't-leaving it to the mods to decide. Wouldn't it be nice to have it detailed out how far you can go with sarcasm so those of us who use it without malice know to tone it down some? I've been warned on some posts that I still have no idea what was offensive about them, so obviously my intent was not 'jerkish'.

The reason for the double post was so the user would get a notification that he was quoted. I'm not spamming a single post nor am I even addressing the same users. They're two separate posts, written by me next to one-another. I don't see a problem with that.

As for Sarcasm, it seems pretty black and white to me. Questioning the person's argument is fine, attacking the user them self is against the rules.

 

[maddawg IAJI]

Please link me those posts then and I will be sure the Moderators get them and deal with them. You're right, that kinda conduct shouldn't be missed, but shit happens. I won't try and deny that the mods miss some things, but they do require some assistance on our part to find these trolls and flamers. Its not a sign of weakness to hit the report button, but rather the ability to know when someone is losing their cool and that the conversation is just gonna go south.

I'm not worried if they get moderated or not-just that moderation is done fairly. Well, not the 'idiot' one (it's one of about a bazillion such things in the RnP forum). Though even I can see that the pig .gif shouldn't be on this website. I didn't save the link, but it was in a thread about "things that always make you cry" from maybe a week ago? If you want to check it out, anyway. Also, there are plenty of things that get modded that clearly have no malice behind them that do get flagged. There was a recent thread about what a girl could give her boyfriend for Christmas. I jokingly said 'a blowjob'. Not that women are sluts, or that sex is all they're good for. Just that yes, a guy might just like a hummer for Christmas. Got a warning for that. I hardly consider that post of mine 'losing my cool' and as far as a conversation going downhill...well, not everyone considers sex jokes bad. So I'm assuming that the person who warned me read their own agenda of 'stamping out sexism' or whatever into my post without considering my actual intent. And in a case like that, I do feel it's a sign of weakness. While noone deserves to be abused on the internet, these are after all ONLY WORDS. If an opinion posted on a website forum wounds your psyche so badly, good luck in the real world. But that's just my opinion.

I think it has become a well known fact that the RnP forum is well known for that sort of stuff. And I'll try and find the thread and report it to the mod. Better late then never.

Sometimes humor is taken the wrong way and isn't seen as funny by everyone. I don't consider sex jokes bad, but I just think its tasteless. (I live with a 16 year old brother who thinks its funny to do 'Yo mom' jokes. Believe me when I say that the last thing I wanna hear at the moment is a joke similar to those.) Honestly, it may have been wise to give a serious non-joking answer as along with it.

Words do hold some power over people, and I don't think a lot of people realize that right away. Just don't do it, a lot of the people here aren't your drinking buddies or your friends and we all come from different backgrounds. I'm not saying everyone has to make nice nice with everyone else, I'm just suggesting that a little common courtesy can go a long way.

Again, the Mods do require some assistance from us in order to work to their fullest extent. If you spot an inconsistency in the moderation, for example, a post similar to another that got mod wrath, then feel free to take it up with a Moderator. I'm not gonna deny that inconsistency isn't a problem (They aren't a full time mod-team after all and they do have lives to live outside of this, especially around this time when they're all spending time with the families or finishing up Midterms in college.), which is why it is important to point them out.

Oh, I don't expect the mods to be perfect but here's what I don't understand: If the mods aren't catching most everything, they're either overworked or not paying enough attention. If they're not paying enough attention, either change the process or get rid of the mods that are slacking (which I do not see as a problem, by the way-I do believe our mods are great individually, just that their interpretations of appropriateness vary wildly from person to person). If they're overworked, why can't we get more mods? I think we have a tiny number of them for a site this size, personally. I mean, it's not like the 'pist has to pay them. Are there not enough forum members with the ability and desire to help out on this front?

I do hope you don't think I'm trying to pick a fight with you. I think it's good to hash these opinions out in this thread so the powers that be can see where everyone on both sides is coming from.

They go after what is reported and what they see. Its not a matter of being overworked or being lazy, its a matter of people not reporting. I won't tell you how often I've heard Cold Storage or Sevre say they've cleared the Mod Queue. They're going to whats being reported. If they miss something, then it wasn't in the queue. If it isn't in the queue, then no one is reporting it. If no one is reporting it, then no one cares that it exists and no one really has a right to complain about it.

Why would I think this is a fight. Its a debate and nothing more. I don't have any reason to hold malice against you, nor do I hate your views, I just offer what I believe are answers to it.

 

[Emissary Laito]

I'd just like to make a suggestion with regards to posts not being seen to be modded.

Saying "They may have been modded, its just you cant see it because it was only a warning" strikes me as bad design.
If I see something that has no indication of having been modded, I'll assume it hasn't been.
Its a reasonable assumption in my opinion.

So why not leave some sort of indicator?
Like, an edit at the bottom of said post with something like "This post received a warning -Mod".
That way it would give a much clearer indication of what's being punished and what isn't.

Just a thought.

 

[Owyn_Merrilin]

In regards to the recent thread where the OP asked if anybody had ever pirated a video game, can we get an official clarification, in the body of the forum rules themselves, stating whether or not it is against the rules to admit to having committed piracy without advocating it? The mod that locked the thread said it was against the rules to admit to it, period, but the current rules, as worded, don't even imply that, let alone state it outright. I'd rather not see anybody get in trouble for doing something that isn't against the rules as written, but is apparently against some unstated rule.

 

[lacktheknack]

The Escapist moderators will not punish you for an opinion. They will punish you if you add flames to that opinion. If you see a smartass comment someone made regarding your opinion, report it. Don't feed it.

I've been to other forums, the moderator teams on a lot of them don't work that well and will only punish the ones who do extreme trolling (I.E. posting gore pictures or porn). I'd rather have the moderators who actually stick to their guns to those who just let the forum burn.

I love that allowing people to express an opinion in a "smartass" way is "let[ting] the forum burn."

EDIT: Fixed a quotation mark.

Wouldn't this be considered a smartass remark in itself?

And moderators can't catch everything. They track based on reports, no reports, no mod wrath. Its not a difficult system to understand.

I have little doubt that it is considered a smartass remark in itself. Somehow I, and moreover the rest of the thread, are managing not to bleed out on the floor as a result. This follow-up smartass remark, however, will undoubtedly be the killing blow, the death knell of enjoyment the forum has long been avoiding.

If you're not enjoying yourself here, then GO AWAY and let the rest of us do so.