Official Discussion about the new Forum Rules

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The Rockerfly

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Dec 31, 2008
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Oh good, I like the specifics of these rules.

Being a jerk is debatable. Many will agree I am an asshole, should that get me banned? I've never called anyone names or anything along the lines

The amount of times I have heard people debate on constructive criticism or negative comments...

Respect is supposed to be earned. I have respect for the staff and the mods but when you guys start dealing out warnings, probations and ban hammers I will call you out on it. I know you're busy however it doesn't mean users should be moderated for nothing

Spelling and grammar I agree on though

Overall I don't think the new rules are clear enough, maybe provide examples and expand on them because almost everything in the new rules is debatable and will lead to negative feedback and confusion
 

Owyn_Merrilin

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May 22, 2010
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Nerf Ninja said:
pretty much off topic but...

There are obviously some mods in here and something that has only recently been noticed by myself is that mods have a different coloured name. Being colourblind I never even noticed before, is it possible that mods could have a more contrasting name for us poor unfortunate souls whose eyesight is a bit poo? :)
I didn't notice it until you mentioned it, and I am most definitely not color blind. I'm going to second the request to change the color; that dark blue is way too close to the normal black to effectively ID the moderators.

OT:

The passage which states "Similarly, posts including, advocating, or linking to illegal or adult material are a very quick way to end your time as part of The Escapist community." Has a minor flaw. Actually, if it's unintended, it's a major flaw, but it's a minor mistake in wording. In the process of conflating adult material and illegal material, whoever wrote this made it technically against the rules to say something along the lines of "I like porn," or "porn is great!" If this was intentional, that's fine, but a clarification would be nice, considering that sort of sentiment is expressed with relative frequency on these forums.

Other than that, my only complaint is that, as others have noted, rather than clarify the rules in order to end the perception of mod abuse that occasionally gets expressed, the new rules are actually more vague, and give the moderators more personal discretion than they had before. I can't say I'm too happy about that, but I'm pretty sure my past posting history actually abides by both the old set and the new rules as posted, so it's not out of any particular fear of getting modded personally.
 

Sevre

Old Hands
Apr 6, 2009
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moretimethansense said:
Sevre90210 said:
moretimethansense said:
Sevre90210 said:
moretimethansense said:
Low content generally means posts like 'lol', 'this', 'first!' and image only posts. If you can sum up your opinion in one sentence then by all means go ahead.
Well that's good to know,
Also what is the policy about piracy?

Obviously linking to Torrents/Cracking sites are right out but what else would result in mod reprisal?
Scroll up to the top of this page, I answered it there :D

~Sev
including, advocating, or linking to illegal or adult material
Ok thats mostly clear but

1 what about admitting to piracy hypothetically? since it neither "including or linking" to
Piracy and isn't nessaceraly Advocaiting it either.

Also on a less serious note does that mean we're not allowed to advocate porn? Cause I think I may have broke that a couple of times sinse the new rules came in already.
Don't worry about hypotheticals, mods will pick it up in the context and if a mistake is made on our behalf we'll rectify it.

As for porn, if it's not illegal it's fine. But linking/posting porn will be punished.
 

moretimethansense

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Apr 10, 2008
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Sevre90210 said:
moretimethansense said:
Sevre90210 said:
moretimethansense said:
Sevre90210 said:
moretimethansense said:
Low content generally means posts like 'lol', 'this', 'first!' and image only posts. If you can sum up your opinion in one sentence then by all means go ahead.
Well that's good to know,
Also what is the policy about piracy?

Obviously linking to Torrents/Cracking sites are right out but what else would result in mod reprisal?
Scroll up to the top of this page, I answered it there :D

~Sev
including, advocating, or linking to illegal or adult material
Ok thats mostly clear but

1 what about admitting to piracy hypothetically? since it neither "including or linking" to
Piracy and isn't nessaceraly Advocaiting it either.

Also on a less serious note does that mean we're not allowed to advocate porn? Cause I think I may have broke that a couple of times sinse the new rules came in already.
Don't worry about hypotheticals, mods will pick it up in the context and if a mistake is made on our behalf we'll rectify it.

As for porn, if it's not illegal it's fine. But linking/posting porn will be punished.
Gotcha thanks for clearing that up.
Mechsoap said:
moretimethansense said:
Mechsoap said:
how short is an comment allowed to be?
Direct thine gaze gaze upwards. ^-^
i feel ashamed of myself now...
Don't be I did the same thing, on the same page no less!
 

Evilsanta

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Apr 12, 2010
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I think it is good but has the rule thing come up so often? I gotten it fairly often when i post.
 

newwiseman

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Aug 27, 2010
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I was nice to see that the standards for a civil society are now 'official' rules, with the making me type 'I agree'
 

D_987

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Jun 15, 2008
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I don't like them, in fact when I saw it I thought back to the previous thread NewClassic had originally created and seem to recall people asking for more structure within the rule system, as it stands these seem to based on circumstance that there's little structure at all. In fact it all appear, at a glance, to attempt to stream any negativity from the forum at all - which just won't happen; at the end of the day a forum is a place for people to discuss various topics; obviously at some point those topics are going to spill out into flaming at some point - it's inevitable and no amount of rules will change that. In fact negativity can still create an interesting discussion; if someone claims they enjoy something, and others agree, but a third party comes into the thread and claims otherwise, would that be classified as "being a jerk"? Such a point is so subjective and based entirely around the forum moderators interpretation of the post [which, as was stated in the previous thread, they don't always gain full insight into the context] that it seems such a strange decision to make it the lead of the new forum rules. Sarcasm, for example, can be read differently by different people - mis-understanding of context shouldn't be a bannable offense...Furrthumore, such a rule just allows a repeat of the original Ad Block bannings, for which a user is banned without justification within the rules, because, as the rules say themselves, it covers all "loop-holes" meaning it has the potential to mean anything.

"Don't troll" was simple, easy to understand, being a jerk; depending on your subjective viewpoint can be anything - from the aforementioned example, to arguing a point against someone else; a forum needn't be overly-wary of its forum content unless it's catering to a younger audience; I hope, and assume, this is not The Escapist's intention [especially with the introduction of "Put Some Effort Into Your Communication") so why the need to treat the communities communication so warily?

How can you expect people to argue reasonably with the introduction of "Have Respect for Others"? I understand the points made, but the wording implies people are unable to attack a persons viewpoint on the matter, which is the whole point of a forum in the first place; sharing alternate views on the subjective; often through combating with another viewpoint. Similarly, "Have Respect for the Site and its Content" just seems like The Escapist disliking the notion people might post negative comments on its content pages - I saw a similar occurrence on Destructoid recently; a news post in which the "reporter" "comically" interviewed the creator of Tetris; the community responded angrily, as they felt the content was poor, and lacked any depth or interest - an interesting discussion was formed, with people asking the content creator to change their style of video. It also seems unfair to enforce this rule when some content creators, MovieBob for example, have questioned the viewers tastes in film in a way that, under this new legislation, would see them banned if it was in text form.

"Put Some Effort Into Your Communication" is fine, though I preferred the previous wording on the statement, but the thought process is still the same. As is "Use Our Forums Appropriately" though I would ask if this extends to linking to users own reviews within the User Reviews section in other threads or is it entirely based around external sources?
 

IrradiatedFish

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Sep 24, 2010
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I haven't been here on the Escapist as long as many of the people who have already replied to this topic, and I don't specifically remember all the nuances of the old rules, but after reading over the new set of rules carefully, I must say that I approve.

Although - as many people have pointed out - some of the rules are very subjective, I believe that you shouldn't really have to worry too much about them if you just behave in a friendly fashion. Myself, I think I can say that I'm fairly good natured; effectively, I'm not too concerned.

Ultimately, I whole-heartedly believe that these rules will be for the betterment of the forum, and I'm hoping that they do weed out the less pleasant (to put it politely) posts.

Cheers!

D_987 said:
How can you expect people to argue reasonably with the introduction of "Have Respect for Others"?
EDIT: You make some good points. This one I quoted however is pretty easy to get around. Although, I suppose it's still subjective, I firmly believe there is a big difference between saying "You're wrong you dumbass" and "I really disagree with that - ".

Usually, I believe it is easy to differentiate between unneeded aggression, and thoughtful assertion.

Your entire post is an excellent example. You clearly explained that you disagree, but you did it in a very well thought out, mature manner (kudos to you). I don't think anyone could call you out on being disrespectful. If people just express their opposing views in a way that you did, I don't see the problem :)
 

Xabekrn

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Apr 21, 2009
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I think that the "don't be a jerk" clause is vague, but in a good way it kind of eliminates loop-holes and such. Plus people shouldn't be jerks, I'm always triple checking everything I say before I post it because you never want to say something stupid and not realize and then incur the wrath of mean forum trolls.

*EDIT*
But at the same time people should be able to speak their minds, being a jerk should be considered as someone going out of their way to pick on a person and using unnecessary expletives in a hostile manner. Disagreement shouldn't be a "jerk" action. If people post content onto a public forum and seek some form of opinion then there are going to be people that don't agree with the content or are even offended by the content. For example just yesterday I was reading forums and there was a guy who posted on not liking bacon and a large number of users disagreed. Some things that were said could technically be considered being "jerk"-ish, but again this is a public forum. Plus who doesn't like bacon? It goes on everything
 

Irony's Acolyte

Back from the Depths
Mar 9, 2010
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Kuliani said:
Casual Shinji said:
Am I going to get redirected to these new forum rules everytime I make a post?

'Cause it happensd in my last two posts.

EDIT: Didn't happen this time, forget I asked.
Yeah, I noticed that happening and asked tech to fix it.
I had the some thing happen to me, but I think it was because I had several tabs open at the same time before I agreed to the new rules.

As for the new rules in general, I didn't really study the old rules that much (mainly because they were pretty much common sense; i.e. don't be a jerk, don't spam) so I didn't notice if anything changed that much. Which is fine by me. I generally don't try to push the rules that much so I should be fine.

I hope that if we do get punished for what we feel was an unfair reason, we can still bring our case before the site mods and try to show our point of view. That way this site doesn't turn into some authoritarian place where disagreeing (with the site or others) is strictly forbidden, no matter how reasonable the disagreement.
 

jamez525

Wasting His Title
Oct 4, 2009
176
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teh_gunslinger said:
3.Have Respect for the Site and its Content
This is where I'm a bit more uncertain. I may just be dense but I'd like to ask a follow up question, if I may. Say a new series is launched and I don't like it. Would it count as negativity were I to make a post explaining why I don't? I realise that just saying it sucks doesn't cut it. But an actual explanation as to why it doesn't tickle my fancy would be alright?
The same goes with comments to an article. It's still alright to take issue with the author (following the above rules) if I feel that I have something worth contributing to the issue at hand?
The way I see it explaining why you don't like it in a sensible, polite way should be absolutely fine, just no raging about how you think it is the worst thing ever made, the creator should die, etc. Basically constructive criticism.
 

EightGaugeHippo

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Apr 6, 2010
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If somebody is talking absolute unfounded nonsense, Im I allowed to call them a "Dumb ass"? [sub][User was put on probation for this post][/sub]
Nope, what about "idiot"?[sub][User was put on probation for this post][/sub]
Maybe it was a bit strong, should I stick with the less offencive "fool"?[sub][User was put on probation for this post][/sub]

To what extent are we allowed to lable the stupidity of a post/poster.

"Dear sir, I believe that your latest post was not up to standard and included uninteligent rhetoric on a number of occasions. Would you be so kind as to edit said post in order to keep up the rather high standards of this forum." [sub][User was put on probation for this post][/sub]
 

TheHecatomb

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May 7, 2008
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I'm absolutely fine with the new rules as long as both users and moderators understand that there's a massive difference between not liking something or simply voicing a negative opinion and purposely being a jerk. I know it's not my position to question moderator discretion, but I'd be lying if I said that every probation or suspension I've seen lately was justified.

Someone who doesn't like a game or a show shouldn't be punished for saying so. If you scare them away from saying it, you'll get a thread full of praise, giving the impression that something is flawless when it's not. And that is something far worse than the occasional flame war.
 

viranimus

Thread killer
Nov 20, 2009
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Yes... while I do agree with most of these ideas, the notion of dont be a jerk seems far too subjective and open to too much interpretation.

I admit.. I am an abrasive person at times. But I also try to be a helpful person most of the time. I also have a very dark sense of humor, that easily and often gets misinterpreted as seriousness due to the nature of text written communication. So I can easily see upsetting one mod, that another mod might be rolling in the floor over the same comment. The subjective nature of this dont be a jerk notion seems far too arbitrary to enforce in a fair manner.

I might never write anything that would incur mod wrath, as I have earned the Morpheus badge, and 1/5th of the way to Neo thus far, but this rule certainly makes me more pensive about posting anything, just because of how someone might take what Ive said and find personal offense in it. I certainly get the point of it but unless I am totally misinterpreting the rule, it feels like the color and flavor and the differing perspectives from people who are willing to express more questionable thoughts and opinions will get weeded out in Overly politically correct blanddom. I mean what is the point of writing anything when everyone is going to have to agree with each other, or simply not express why they have differing opinions.

Ehh... just my take on it. Knowing me, Im likely overreacting to it.
 

Atmos Duality

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Mar 3, 2010
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It's very easy to provide criticism without being a jerk.

Always separate the subject from whom you're discussing it with.
We aren't here to criticize each other, but actions and ideas.

Other than the fun of being an asshole, what good is there in wasting time to flame an anonymous screen name?
 

moretimethansense

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Apr 10, 2008
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Oh since I'm here what about legal things that are used in illegal ways?
eg
If somone is metions ther ps1 laser crapping out is it against the rules to direct them to use an emulator since they are legal as long as they don't come with a BIOS or ROMS ie
I tell them where to get an emulator and how to copy their PS1 BIOS to their pc thus allowing them to play games?

I'm aware that the PS2 and 3 can play PS1 games but hypotheticaly.

Also what about telling someone how to use torrents if they are asking about mods for example and I am directing them to Nehrim at fates edge which is legal and can be downloaded via torrent?

And finally when you say illegal which set of laws are you refering to?

there are for example things that are illegal to do here that are legal in most of America and there are things that are illegal there that are legal here.

Hypotheticaly speaking would I face mod wrath for advocating what is a crime here but not in America?

What about the reverse, would I get in trouble for advocating somthing that is a crime in America but not where I live?
 

GeorgW

ALL GLORY TO ME!
Aug 27, 2010
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I've always felt like the rules around here don't really exist, apart from the "Don't be a jerk" one. I'm not complaining, I'm just saying that people seem to get what's coming to them, regardless of the rules.
But yeah, I'd like to know about how the mods would react in these 3 examples, as I feel they are too vague:
Example 1: An idiot is being an idiot and someone call them an idiot.
Example 2: Someone says "I have pirated" or someting similar.
Example 3: Someone posts just to make a joke.

Also, I agree with some of the previous posters that the dark blue coloured name defining the mods needs to change.
 

Kouen

Yea, Furry. Deal With It!
Mar 23, 2010
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Does that mean we can rid ourselves of the "NPC" threads? while the rules are a little vauge and mostly common sence there a decent set of rules none the less