Oikos university shooting

[omega 616]

So what have we here ... 84 year old woman shoots a guy. Nice, her value of human life is what? $200?

Again, valuing somebodies life at a few hundred bucks, MAYBE. Wow, Americans really value life highly by the looks of things.

Oh great, top it off with children using daddies assault rifle, gun safety folks! Yet again, another low estimate on human life.

Do you guys know what insurance is? 'cos I am pretty sure if you get robbed but have insurance you get refunded for it and everybody lives.

Just saiyan ...

$200? How much do you think ammunition costs? Maybe $0.10 a bullet in most states.

And so far as I'm concerned, she should be reimbursed for what ammunition she expended because the life of someone who assails you in your own home has NO value. That is $0, well short of $200 my friend.

And as for the kids having to use their father's AR-15, what? would you have them sit quietly and hope the men who broke in their homes leave them alone? Do the lives of those children have no value?

Oh yeah, I forgot about that thought process of "break the law you are nothing but scum in a pond". Most human life is worth more than whatever you own in your home, especially if you can get all that stuff back for nothing.

 

[senordesol]

Oh yeah, I forgot about that thought process of "break the law you are nothing but scum in a pond". Most human life is worth more than whatever you own in your home, especially if you can get all that stuff back for nothing.

Correct. *Most* human life. As in Folks who are able to go about their day without making victims of their fellow man. Of course what you fail to consider is that 'whatever you own' in your home also includes the lives and safety of yourself and your loved ones. Now life insurance exists, sure, but I somehow doubt it will quite cover the loss of your spouse or child.

 

[senordesol]

What does this mean, exactly?

The instinctive barriers we humans have against killing eachother will have reduced the number of casualties in this latest school shooting.

Not only that, but if guns were illegal, he'd have used a knife, and it would've been a small miracle if he killed even one person.

Wait a second! Murder's illegal! So he must not have killed anybody!

 

[omega 616]

Oh yeah, I forgot about that thought process of "break the law you are nothing but scum in a pond". Most human life is worth more than whatever you own in your home, especially if you can get all that stuff back for nothing.

Correct. *Most* human life. As in Folks who are able to go about their day without making victims of their fellow man. Of course what you fail to consider is that 'whatever you own' in your home also includes the lives and safety of yourself and your loved ones. Now life insurance exists, sure, but I somehow doubt it will quite cover the loss of your spouse or child.

When I say most, I mean the real scum ... not the guy who stole your $10 wallet with $20 inside, your phone and your ipod. I mean the guy who shot up the island in Norway (I think), the people who sell sex slaves or Fritzl.

When a person breaks into your house what do you think they are interested in? Your life or what you have? The only reason I can think of that a robber would take a life is if you confront him/her.

Which is why they say if you are mugged in the street don't hand your wallet over, throw it left and run right or vice versa.

Killing for possessions makes you just as bad as them.

 

[senordesol]

And as for the kids having to use their father's AR-15, what? would you have them sit quietly and hope the men who broke in their homes leave them alone? Do the lives of those children have no value?

thats exactly what they should have done. believe it or not people dont just break into homes to steal shit, find someone inside and decide to kill them. murder is most often a spur of the moment crime, a crime of passion. you want to know how to turn a random guy breaking into your house to steal some shit into a murder.... by trying to defend yourself and escalating the situation.

there is a reason violence in america is so lethal. guns escalate violence. america has similar violent crime to a lot of the developed world, the difference is in the UK 2 guys in a bar punch each other then go home, in america they punch each other, 1 pulls a knife so the other pulls a gun and shoots him in the face.

The fact is: you have no idea WHAT the fuck he's there to do and I'd be disinclined to game the odds with my LIFE at stake. They could have been there to kidnap them. You don't know, and neither did the kids. All they knew is that men had broken into their home and that puts them in danger.

And if some asshat pulls a knife on you he DESERVES to get shot -that puts your life in immediate danger.

 

[bullet_sandw1ch]

snip

Ah, the lord of war "bigger stick theory". The "we have guns 'cos they have guns. So if they shoot us, we can shoot back" ideal. Where is the diplomacy in it?

simply and quickly this isnt the guns fault, the guy was a nut job who wanted to kill some people and if he didnt have a gun he would have had road rage or burnt a building down or killed people anyway without using firearms (hell if he had any respect for human life this wouldnt have happened, looking someone in the eyes and killing them is hard with or without a gun)

guns are not the problem people are the problem and the sooner anti-gun people realise this the better

The difference is: road rage is by car, cars are useful for transport. Whatever he did to burn down the building them products would have been useful for something and it's easier to get away from a fire than a gun man. Knives are useful in the kitchen among other things.

Guns have only 1 reason for being, to kill. Sure, take away all guns and nutters will kill with something that has a useful reason for being.

Guns are the problem, the next best option to a gun is a knife and to kill with a knife is a personal thing. You have to be up close but with a gun you can be hundreds of feet away, thus taking you out of the situation almost.

I have heard multiple times on those prison programmes that it is so much easier to kill with a gun.

I await the day a pro gun person walks me through the exact situation where having a gun is good thing 'cos in every situation I see it being useless.

im not pro-gun, but heres a situation: a marine in a warzone. oh noes!! we dont have guns! try to make peace with tedddy bears and virgins!

 

[senordesol]

When I say most, I mean the real scum ... not the guy who stole your $10 wallet with $20 inside, your phone and your ipod. I mean the guy who shot up the island in Norway (I think), the people who sell sex slaves or Fritzl.

When a person breaks into your house what do you think they are interested in? Your life or what you have? The only reason I can think of that a robber would take a life is if you confront him/her.

Which is why they say if you are mugged in the street don't hand your wallet over, throw it left and run right or vice versa.

Killing for possessions makes you just as bad as them.

I don't give a shit WHAT they're interested in. If -in your estimation- nothing in my home is worth killing for, then certainly nothing in my home is worth dying for. So, that being the case, I'd expect -knowing that 1 in 6 Americans own a weapon- anyone who would risk their life for my possessions does not give two flying shits what happens to me or my family in the process of the commission of their crime.

If that seems harsh to you; I have a solution: Stay the hell out of houses that don't belong to you.

Elegant in its simplicity, isn't it?

 

[Revnak_v1legacy]

Yay, a gun law argument, so everybody can talk out of their ass and ignore the horrors of what has just occurred except for the occasional, "it wouldn't have happened if..." Seriously, none of you will win and you're all acting delusional.
As for the victims and their families, I hope things turn out well as can be expected.

 

[CM156_v1legacy]

And as for the kids having to use their father's AR-15, what? would you have them sit quietly and hope the men who broke in their homes leave them alone? Do the lives of those children have no value?

thats exactly what they should have done. believe it or not people dont just break into homes to steal shit, find someone inside and decide to kill them. murder is most often a spur of the moment crime, a crime of passion. you want to know how to turn a random guy breaking into your house to steal some shit into a murder.... by trying to defend yourself and escalating the situation.

there is a reason violence in america is so lethal. guns escalate violence. america has similar violent crime to a lot of the developed world, the difference is in the UK 2 guys in a bar punch each other then go home, in america they punch each other, 1 pulls a knife so the other pulls a gun and shoots him in the face.

Right. Just like in this [http://www.q13fox.com/news/kcpq-before-fatal-home-invasion-suspect-threatened-20120401,0,7156094.story?track=rss] situation.

That call from the couple living just a few blocks away, terrified and hiding in a bedroom after the suspect broke into their home, trashed it and threatened to find and kill them.

When the suspect kicked down the bedroom door, he was shot and killed, police said. The shooting was in self-defense.

Personally, if I were in that situation, I'd rather have a gun than try to talk someone deranged like that down. Because words pale in comparison to a .45

See, I don't think criminals have a right to commit crime free of any defensive action from their victims. I don't. But I'm just weird, I guess.

 

[Fappy]

Why are these people so bad at killing people? They only ever get a few kills despite being in a building with hundreds of people.

With only ~30 rounds to work with, he's actually pretty terrifying lethal. Life isn't like a game of CoD, folks. Getting hit by a bullet, even in the CoM is not necessarily a death sentence.

I just hope no one raises the bar.

he shouldve used extended mags and steady aim

does making that joke make me a horrible person?

in all seriousness situations like this are horrible, and were lucky he wasnt better at killing people, best wishes to the victims and there families and lets hope this never happens again and ensure that if it does then we are prepared for it and respond in the appropriate way to save people

Yeah 'cos the dozen or so other times this has happened never actually happened. I can think of two off the top of my head and I am pretty sure there is a third famous one, there is Columbine and Virginia tech.

I'm sorry but until America gets over it's love for guns and stop treating a killing tool as a safety blanket the safer the country will be for them.

I know I am going to get quoted into the floor but I still cannot think of a situation where allowing civvies to carry guns is a good idea!

Sucks for the families and I wish it never happened to them though.

Take this info about Kennesaw, GA for what you will:

Spoiler

"Gun law
In 1982 the city passed an ordinance [Sec 34-21][14]
(a) In order to provide for the emergency management of the city, and further in order to provide for and protect the safety, security and general welfare of the city and its inhabitants, every head of household residing in the city limits is required to maintain a firearm, together with ammunition therefore.

(b)
Exempt from the effect of this section are those heads of households who suffer a physical or mental disability which would prohibit them from using such a firearm. Further exempt from the effect of this section are those heads of households who are paupers or who conscientiously oppose maintaining firearms as a result of beliefs or religious doctrine, or persons convicted of a felony.
Gun rights activist David Kopel has claimed that there is evidence that this gun law has reduced the incident rate of home burglaries citing that in the first year, home burglaries dropped from 65 before the ordinance, down to 26 in 1983, and to 11 in 1984.[15] Another report observed a noticeable reduction in burglary from 1981, the year before the ordinance was passed, to 1999.[16]
Statistical analysis of [the] data over a longer period of time did not show any evidence that [the law] reduced the rate of home burglaries [in Kennesaw.][17][18]
However, the city's website[19] claims the city has the lowest crime rate in the county.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kennesaw,_Georgia.

I live in the same county and its hard to say if that last bit really makes much of a difference. Cobb County has one of the lowest crime rates in the state. I am actually not a strong proponent of either side of the argument, but I always found Kennesaw to be an interesting factor in the debate.

 

[Darknacht]

Oh yeah, I forgot about that thought process of "break the law you are nothing but scum in a pond". Most human life is worth more than whatever you own in your home, especially if you can get all that stuff back for nothing.

Correct. *Most* human life. As in Folks who are able to go about their day without making victims of their fellow man. Of course what you fail to consider is that 'whatever you own' in your home also includes the lives and safety of yourself and your loved ones. Now life insurance exists, sure, but I somehow doubt it will quite cover the loss of your spouse or child.

When I say most, I mean the real scum ... not the guy who stole your $10 wallet with $20 inside, your phone and your ipod. I mean the guy who shot up the island in Norway (I think), the people who sell sex slaves or Fritzl.

When a person breaks into your house what do you think they are interested in? Your life or what you have? The only reason I can think of that a robber would take a life is if you confront him/her.

Which is why they say if you are mugged in the street don't hand your wallet over, throw it left and run right or vice versa.

Killing for possessions makes you just as bad as them.

So you should not be allowed to defend your self?
What about women, if they are attacked by a rapist should they just rollover and take it because it not worth killing someone to stop it?
Please tell me what you think you should be allowed to kill to defend your self from, or do you believe that you should just let people do anything they want to you?

 

[EightGaugeHippo]

I guess the Asian guy wanted to Cho... the pupils who was boss.

OT This is a terrible incident.

EDIT Why are these people so bad at killing people? They only ever get a few kills despite being in a building with hundreds of people.

Yeah, despite saying "this is a terrible incident" your other two statements are still in very poor taste. Just thought you should know.
Good-day sir

OT
I Don't really have anything to add to the discussion of the actual news story that hasnt been said
and I'm staying out of the gun-law debate..

 

[omega 616]

im not pro-gun, but heres a situation: a marine in a warzone. oh noes!! we dont have guns! try to make peace with tedddy bears and virgins!

I said civvies, if you are in the armed forces you have a whole different set of problems.

I don't give a shit WHAT they're interested in. If -in your estimation- nothing in my home is worth killing for, then certainly nothing in my home is worth dying for. So, that being the case, I'd expect -knowing that 1 in 6 Americans own a weapon- anyone who would risk their life for my possessions does not give two flying shits what happens to me or my family in the process of the commission of their crime.

If that seems harsh to you; I have a solution: Stay the hell out of houses that don't belong to you.

Elegant in its simplicity, isn't it?

They are trying to get money, they have nothing to gain from killing you. The only reason a person would be killed by them is if they try to stop them.

Be compliant and they wont do anything. It's when you start walking round like some spec ops guy, glock in hand, when shit escalates and bullets start flying.

I am not saying he should be robbing you but it seems most Americans have the same callas point of view as you do, I think it comes from your government.

This aggressive, cold stance on attacking things that pose even the smallest threat, instead of just backing down and thinking "this just isn't worth it". I mean look at the war still going (in the apparently apple sponsored) Iraq, which of the 5 or so reason did we invade? Oil? WMD's? Osama? or what? Also why are we still there?

"They caused 9/11" so you constantly massacre them, it isn't a war, it's a little short of a genocide but this is a different topic.

I just think, the person robbing you just wants quick cash, so just give it to him and get it back latter. The American way is "oh shit you scared me" *bang!* "that'll teach you to threaten me!"

Hyperbole FTW!

Oh yeah, I forgot about that thought process of "break the law you are nothing but scum in a pond". Most human life is worth more than whatever you own in your home, especially if you can get all that stuff back for nothing.

Correct. *Most* human life. As in Folks who are able to go about their day without making victims of their fellow man. Of course what you fail to consider is that 'whatever you own' in your home also includes the lives and safety of yourself and your loved ones. Now life insurance exists, sure, but I somehow doubt it will quite cover the loss of your spouse or child.

When I say most, I mean the real scum ... not the guy who stole your $10 wallet with $20 inside, your phone and your ipod. I mean the guy who shot up the island in Norway (I think), the people who sell sex slaves or Fritzl.

When a person breaks into your house what do you think they are interested in? Your life or what you have? The only reason I can think of that a robber would take a life is if you confront him/her.

Which is why they say if you are mugged in the street don't hand your wallet over, throw it left and run right or vice versa.

Killing for possessions makes you just as bad as them.

So you should not be allowed to defend your self?
What about women, if they are attacked by a rapist should they just rollover and take it because it not worth killing someone to stop it?
Please tell me what you think you should be allowed to kill to defend your self from, or do you believe that you should just let people do anything they want to you?

If you can successfully hold a man off with one arm, grab your gun, cock it, aim it, then fire ... I think you are a better person than me. Rape is either super fast and aggressive (maybe violent) or you get drugged, does either one sound like an easy situation to shoot a person?

I mean I assume it's super fast and aggressive with possible violence 'cos I doubt too many rapists do it gently and slowly without drugs.

 

[senordesol]

no i do not know what he is there for, but i do know that the chance of a random stranger breaking into my house and killing me is so slim that it is simply not worth the risk that having a gun brings with it. i am far more likely to end the life of someone who was no risk to my life, accidentally shoot a friend or family member or escalate the situation and get myself killed. thats before taking into account all the other risks having a firearm brings.

a firearm does not make you safe, in fact it is quite the opposite. study after study has shown that having a firearm in your home decreases safety. increase risk of suicide, accidental shootings and more likely to be a victim of homicide to just name a few.

Bull. Shit.

A firearm does not make you safe, that much is true. A firearm doesn't *make* you anything. It is a weapon, yes, but it is an inanimate object. It has no magical influence, no evil desires; it is machined metal and plastic (or wood). Learn its proper use and operation and you won't shoot anyone you don't mean to.

Now if you want to take the risk that the man willing to break the law and into your home means you no harm; that is your risk to take and I respect your choice. Good luck with that. If someone is not willing to take that risk, I respect that choice as well.

Ultimately, if someone is willing to victimize their fellow citizens, I have no sympathy or sorrow to spare should they die in the attempt for society and indeed humanity will be better for their passing.

 

[lacktheknack]

Wat? No anti-religious snark? How?

D8

OT: Gah. I'm not even going to say anything about the guns, I'll just agree that this is a big tragedy.

 

[senordesol]

They are trying to get money, they have nothing to gain from killing you. The only reason a person would be killed by them is if they try to stop them.

I have no guarantee that my money is all they're after. And if they die in the attempt they certainly won't be doing whatever they're doing to anyone else. The fact is: we'd both be fine if we both stayed home.

Now the people I used in my examples were down with that plan (staying home). So what's the problem? What makes my assailant's safety so much more important than mine?