Okay so... Voldemort wins, what next?
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The horcrux anchors the soul in the body to the living world. When a person with a horcrux "dies", the part of their soul still in their body abandons the body and takes a formless existence.thaluikhain said:
To answer your second question, according to Voldemort's interpretation of the prophecy, Harry is the only person who has a chance of killing him. If Harry dies, then no one can challenge him. Therefore, he feels has no reason to be afraid of death.
Oh, right, that makes sense.DaWaffledude said:
Ah, I see. Though, does anyone else think that's a stupid interpretation? Just cause you know you will die if someone else doesn't is no guarantee that something else won't kill you anyway. Take alot of the tension out of the books if it was revealed Harry was playing on god mode, except against Voldemort.DaWaffledude said:
Oh my word, I heard of the Abridged Yugioh series before, and knew it was a piss-take of the series, but I never saw it because I don't follow Yugioh and thought I wouldn't have gotten any of the jokes. That was AMAZING! I was in stitches throughout, thanks.badgersprite said:
THIS IS THE HAPPIEST MOMENT OF MY LIFE!
Honestly, I think people are a little hard on Harry. Sometimes we forget that the story started when he was 11. What's the most heroic thing you've done between his ages through the movie? If I had to choose between hiding out from psychopathic Death Eaters, Werewolves, and Dementors, or just staying at home you guys would be screwedExterminas said:
The sad thing is I could actually see that.MiracleOfSound said:
"OMG, Twilight Sparkle is soooo much better then all those muggle ponies."
Assuming at least one horcruxs is left in tact (and not the snake), then I suppose he'll be immortal, and extremly powerful (elder want and all). So basically he'll become a God. Then he'll get bored, and either try to kill himself or finds a place in the universe.
You have to take into account all the benefits Harry got: He got a vault full of gold, a reputation as the wizardkind's jesus and instantly is the best pal of the world's most powerful wizard.rancher of monsters said:
Given all these things what he achieved is really minor.
Compared to Voldemort, who started out as an orphan without a single dime and got his hand around the world's throat only by means of his own skills.
It would have been brilliant if he had won. Mainly because I'd like to see Voldemort get completely pummelled by the Royal Marines.
The biggest problem the Harry Potter universe has is that their government is not maintaining an active military. What, like, 100 wizards managed to take over the entire wizarding world? That shouldn't be happening. Why aren't people fighting back with killing curses when the death eaters are killing everyone around them? The Ministry of Magic should just train some of the guys from Durmstrang (they look strong and obedient) in basic millitary tactics, then ship them off to war.
The biggest problem the Harry Potter universe has is that their government is not maintaining an active military. What, like, 100 wizards managed to take over the entire wizarding world? That shouldn't be happening. Why aren't people fighting back with killing curses when the death eaters are killing everyone around them? The Ministry of Magic should just train some of the guys from Durmstrang (they look strong and obedient) in basic millitary tactics, then ship them off to war.
But they do. They have squads, specializations. Specifically, aurors hunt evil wizards, then there's those that retrieve artifacts that fall into muggle hands, people who are trained in wiping memories and restoring the area after accidents etc. But there aren't all that many wizarding folk. Besides, who are they going to war with? If you mean war with Voldemort, that's why both times he operated behind the scenes until it was too late, and both times it was wizards outside the Ministry, mostly the Order Of The Phoenix, who were instrumental in holding him back.Esotera said:
Snape, eh. He was heroic, absolutely. Great character. Certainly not the hero, but a hero yeah. And I'm always telling people Dumbledore was the hero, dude set every single detail up. Voldemort though? You gotta be trolling. But why hate on Harry? Sure, most of his life was in fact already mapped out, but he still chose to do a lot of things. In the seventh book especially, he and Hermione destroy four horcruxes by themselves, with some minor assistance from Dobby/Aberforth. And why does everyone seem to hold Rowling's writing in contempt? I thought she created a charming world, great story with some brilliant characters. Of course, if you've only seen the movies, well maybe I'd understand.Exterminas said:
Aurors are more bounty hunters than anything. Most of the time they operate individually or in small groups. Wizards who wipe memories etc. aren't really related to any form of military. I refuse to believe that (1) they don't have a decent intelligence network in place to prevent abuses like this from happening, and (2) they don't have even a few wizards trained specifically as cannon fodder. Or if they really don't have enough, and it looks as if evil will prevail, draft the populace. This would at least protect the population at large events (such as the Quidditch world cup in the fourth film. The Death Eaters would have a fun time storming that with 500 highly trained wizard commandos guarding the grounds.)brunothepig said:
I know why it's written the way it is, it just irritates me slightly when good characters die needlessly..
I'm of the impression that magical creatures have resistance to magic, otherwise it would be hideously easy for a wizard to kick the ass of anything out there. However, muggles would have no such protection, and in a conflict where a wizard can teleport anywhere, control the mind of anyone, assume anyone's identity, bend the fabric of reality, fly, go invisible, create living fire, incapacitate anyone with a flick of the wrist, turn back time etc etc completely unhindered, do you really think any human would be able to put up resistance? The only hope would be resistance fighter wizards to use counter spells, but they all but lost in the books so without a Harry around to get everyone going it would be game over, man.thaluikhain said:
Volemort in charge would be bad for anyone non-magical and any magic wielder who sympathised. I'm thinking along the lines of Hitler with the Jews, to be honest. Lets be glad J. K. let the good guys win...
I wrote another post on the Voldemort-Buisnes, a few posts up. You can check that out, if you are interested.brunothepig said:
Here are some reasons why Rowling's writing sucks. I will not go into detail to not derail this thread too much.
And please don't start with the claim "Good and bad are subjective, this is only your opinion." While this is technically true there are established norms and standards regarding fictional works that come as close as possible to being absolute truths.
- One dimensional characters.
Everyone in the Potter Universe is either good or evil. Sometimes there is a mask in place, someone who appeared good, turns evil or vice versa. But there is no moral gray zone, faking an allignement is not the same as being a morally complex character. If you are Slytherin, you are bad. If you are Griffindor, you are a hero. etc. If you want examples of well-written Characters:
Darken Raal from Godkind's books: Fancies himself the good guy and is not ashamed to act according to that
Everyone from Song of Ice and Fire
I can give Rowling partical credit for snape, but he is part of a different problem, which leads me to point two:
- Shoehorning things in on the go.
Don't predent you don't know what I am talking about. Rowling just made up crap as she went on and clearly has no sense for consistency. She didn't have a plan for the whole story and it really shows. Of course this in itself is not a complaint, it just becomes a complaint when it causes Inconsistency. Here are some examples from shoehorned things that cause problems:
Disarming a wizzard gives you his wand. Throughout the books dozens of people get disarmed. Their wands don't act up.
There are other schools for witchcraft in the world? Since when?
Dumbledore has a family? That comes in handy. Strange that stuff like this doesn't stand on one of these collection cards they throw around.
What hapened to the philosopher's stone? Why didn't Voldemort just pursue that plan again? Sure the alchemist from the first book was dead, but certainly with all his evil manpower it musth ave been possible to create such a thing again.
Snape. He basically got rewritten into being a good guy. Sure, this one was actually good writing, because you did not see it comming. But combined with all the other crap it just seems like an accident to me.
- "These books are meant for children"
Not so much a problem with Rowling's writing as with the way these books are read. Everytime I bring up one of these complaints, one or two morons tell me "Dude, these are books for children, not shakespeare. You can't hold simple narrative standards to them."
If I see the Potter-Books as books for kids, I have to vomit.
Because they teach kids horrible lessons. Here are a few examples:
"No matter how much you work in life, or how great the danger is. Something will pop up and save your ass."
"Friends are more important than academic succes."
"Go and form a clique at school. Outcast and ignore anything with different values." (See Syltherin / Griffindor)
"You can not fail at school."
In a really romantic fashion these things are really great. But there is just no way any of the stuff from the Potter Books works as good children's literature, which generally is supposed to have some teaching value.
Actually. I think he would gather a wizard army and end his hate for Muggles once and for all in an all out battle with Wizards vs Muggles. It would be horrible, and casualties big on both sides. As Muggles cannot send nukes into Wizardland and it was impossible to hit Wizards with missiles and rockets. Battles had to be fought out on the ground with infantry and ground vehicles.
However. Guns vs Wizards in a direct fight. Guns would win. Indirect combat like say, buildings catching fire and the like. Would be Wizards way of fighting.
However. Guns vs Wizards in a direct fight. Guns would win. Indirect combat like say, buildings catching fire and the like. Would be Wizards way of fighting.
Esotera said:
Exterminas said:
The characters, for one thing. As I said, I thought a lot were well fleshed out, Snape in particular, but there's also Malfoy and especially Dumbledore.
Yeah, in the movies it seems like he just gets dragged along a lot, but it's the pressure of expectations versus his nature. His family are Death Eaters, he's in Slytherin, notorious for turning out Death Eaters (no, they aren't all evil). But it's not in his nature. He's a douche, yeah. But he couldn't kill Dumbledore, he doesn't reveal Harry in the manor, and in the end he just gets sick of it. No, the weird walking off into the distance thing doesn't happen, but he does hide during the battle, not join in, and is in fact almost killed by a Death Eater.
Dumbledore, whose childhood is completely ignored in the seventh movie, except for a few confusing glimpses that do come off as contrived, was quite a complicated boy. He was friends with the (later) dark wizard Grindelwald, they talked of finding the Hallows and using them to establish a governing body over the muggles, to protect us and help us. Good intentions, horrible ideas. Dumbeldore's sister (squib, terrible shame to her mother, locked in a basement, only really connected with Dumbledore) basically kills herself, Dumbledore blames himself, goes into seclusion for a while, emerges with the rise of Grindelwald, duels him, defeats him, takes the Elder Wand and becomes famous. But he's still a very sad man, even in the sixth book. That cursed hand of his? He isn't an idiot, he should have known Voldemort would have placed a spell on that ring. But he recognised it as the resurrection stone, and for a moment he forgot himself, and just wanted to see his sister again, to beg her forgiveness.
I did have to condense this a lot.
I did have to condense this a lot.
It's not quite as simple as disarming a wizard, although yes, the movie makes it look that way. You have to best the wizard, in a duel, basically prove to the wand you're more powerful. Ollivander explains it in the book, in the movie you're told little more than "the wand chooses the wizard" and just expected to go with it.
I believe the schools are briefly mentioned by Hermione before the fourth book, but as Harry thinks, of course there's other schools. Wizards aren't limited to Britain.
Dumbledore's family is hinted at, but mostly that's the thing. No-one knows about Dumbledore, because, as you find out in the seventh book, he didn't want people to know about his childhood. He was a different person, and not one he was proud of. Plus, remembering his sister is still painful for him, as I mentioned.
Dumbledore says at the end of the first book that Flamel is going to destroy it, even if it means his death, to prevent Voldemort from trying that again.
And Snape is foreshadowed for a while. Not him being a good guy, that was the point is he played his part perfectly, but subtle things in book 5 and 6 hint at his affections for Lily.
I believe the schools are briefly mentioned by Hermione before the fourth book, but as Harry thinks, of course there's other schools. Wizards aren't limited to Britain.
Dumbledore's family is hinted at, but mostly that's the thing. No-one knows about Dumbledore, because, as you find out in the seventh book, he didn't want people to know about his childhood. He was a different person, and not one he was proud of. Plus, remembering his sister is still painful for him, as I mentioned.
Dumbledore says at the end of the first book that Flamel is going to destroy it, even if it means his death, to prevent Voldemort from trying that again.
And Snape is foreshadowed for a while. Not him being a good guy, that was the point is he played his part perfectly, but subtle things in book 5 and 6 hint at his affections for Lily.
Again, the book shows these things in more detail, such as the aftermath of the war, the losses, and it was more than just Harry that kept them safe. All that time he's searching for the horcrux in the castle, students and teachers are fighting and dying. And the book shows this. Hell, a child is orphaned, and the death of some characters has a lot more impact since they've been in the books far more/longer. Such as Tonks and Lupin. The fact that they have a child is explored a bit more, and hey, that kids an orphan now. There's also Bill. Mauled by a werewolf in book 6, yes they mention that. Hell, you see him. But in the movies it's not until the start of number 7, where he uses it as a conversation starter.
I don't really get that impression from the books at least. I've skipped a few movies, so maybe it's a bit different. Certainly there's a certain "friends are important" theme, but it mentions Harry can't hang out with Ginny much because of exams and stuff like that.
Ok, once more in the books, more and more people (mostly ghosts, and the Sorting Hat so maybe people is the wrong word) say the houses are bad ideas, and foster enmity. It also explains that the reasoning behind it is you're more likely to make a few friends if you share a room, and all your classes, since most of the children don't know each other.
Aaaand the failure thing, they study for exams, intensively. The movies cut basically every mention of that, presumably because it's boring, but yeah. Happens. And remember, this is primary school and high school rolled together. It would be really cruel to fail a first year. Lets not forget, these kids are 11-17. This isn't University. Sure, they might fail classes, but it's their overall grades that are important. This is specifically said in one book. That Crabbe and Goyle apparently got horrible marks in some classes, but Snape gave them the best marks in potions.
I don't really get that impression from the books at least. I've skipped a few movies, so maybe it's a bit different. Certainly there's a certain "friends are important" theme, but it mentions Harry can't hang out with Ginny much because of exams and stuff like that.
Ok, once more in the books, more and more people (mostly ghosts, and the Sorting Hat so maybe people is the wrong word) say the houses are bad ideas, and foster enmity. It also explains that the reasoning behind it is you're more likely to make a few friends if you share a room, and all your classes, since most of the children don't know each other.
Aaaand the failure thing, they study for exams, intensively. The movies cut basically every mention of that, presumably because it's boring, but yeah. Happens. And remember, this is primary school and high school rolled together. It would be really cruel to fail a first year. Lets not forget, these kids are 11-17. This isn't University. Sure, they might fail classes, but it's their overall grades that are important. This is specifically said in one book. That Crabbe and Goyle apparently got horrible marks in some classes, but Snape gave them the best marks in potions.
Sorry it's quite long, but yeah, many of your points are just wrong in the face of the books, and some are subjective.
EDIT: Escapist temporarily ate my post, so I literally typed out all of this again. I'm just gonna edit in a few more points I put in well typing, since it seems a shame for the last 15 minutes or so to go to waste. I'll stick them in italics or something.
To kill all "lesser" muggles and have wizards rule. Your typical Hitler/Magneto-type.Yoshisummons said:
Griffolion said:
A wand could be used to maintain a magical shield that would block any projectile. Voldemort also has a zombie army, an army of immortal Nazgul (Dementors), an army of giants, several lives, the ability to mind control people (i.e presidents, police etc. etc.), not to mention flight, teleportation, the ability to change shape...you get the point. If Voldemort knew what to expect in a muggle fight (a gun); he would win. Taking over the muggle world would have taken him mere hours. And those hours would be spent learning the infrastructure, the actual overtaking would take him 20 minutes tops.
Remember, the last half of the Harry Potter saga was just WWII/The Holocaust with wizards. Muggles and half-breeds are jews/gypsies/gays/etc, with pure blood wizards being the Aryan race and Voldemort is, of course, Hitler.
So, the answer to this question can be found in almost any book about WWII. But, for those who didn't pay attention in history class. His goal was taking over the (wizard) world and ethnic cleansing.
So, the answer to this question can be found in almost any book about WWII. But, for those who didn't pay attention in history class. His goal was taking over the (wizard) world and ethnic cleansing.