One Book Shelf: Censorship Warfare

[crimson5pheonix]

snip

Well that OWoD thing sounds pretty bad but I think it's unfair to compare an image included in a product to the entire concept of a product.

I will say that oWoD can be unapologetically offensive in a myriad of ways because that's just how WW is/was.

Never had any oWoD books so I only really had his example to go off of. It wouldn't really surprise me though. Though it would still be a different level since the entire concept of oWoD was presumably not offensive.

Well the 20th anniversary edition of Vampire outright says you're playing a date rapist. The games in general are about doing WHAT HAS TO BE DONE without losing your humanity to the atrocities you have to commit. So I suppose, by definition, they are games for doing very offensive things.

The early oWoD books were also written by people stuck emotionally as teenagers which didn't help things.

Eh?! I'm gonna have to find a pdf of that to see for myself o__O

Well committing atrocities is one thing. Not all of them are the same. Killing people is generally a standard RP thing. Rape not so much.

What about torturing and killing your friend's underlings for political gain? That's the standard operating procedure for the "good" guys.

Eh. I don't usually see violence quite the same as sexual violence in games. Though I guess when you get to torture that is kind of getting into the same creepy territory.

I kind of gathered in Vampire there are no really good guys.

I think there's still the point that one can go without rape and the other is about it. I still see a distinction that can be made. Even if there is that comment you mentioned, people could run a game just fine.

What if you're seducing your enemies minions through a literal date rape drug to set up a magically enforced Stockholm syndrome, once again for political gain? The line itself is referencing the act of drinking human blood forcefully, which is a pretty apt description when you think of a vampire dragging someone behind an alley and "going at it".

Okay that is pretty creepy. I'd guess it wouldn't get the same reaction because it isn't put that way but that sounds kind of messed up for a game.

Oh well that's kind of a matter of the entire concept of vampires isn't it?

Werewolf is no better, they treat their women as breeders except for the straw feminists that cut off every dangly-bit in sight.

Well that sounds rather awful. They are supposed to all do that?

Yes, with a couple of noted exceptions. And they are also supposed to be heroes. Violently psychotic heroes, but heroes nonetheless.

Well its sexist for sure. I still think it's different because the bad part doesn't define the entire game.

It's actually at the heart of why the setting is fucked (that and the aforementioned violent psychoses). Werewuffs have become so obsessed with breeding and bloodlines that they're dangerously understaffed for their End Of The World Event, so they have to throw their previous rules away to breed up a big enough army.

Yeah but presumably you aren't going out hunting people to have sex with. It may make a difference to the setting but it isn't what the game is all about.

Furry, the Yiffing? Being about sex? Perish the though. Though if I remember correctly one of their endgame scenarios involves sexing a straight up wolf.

Also I looked it up and they can't breed together can they?

Yes and no. They can, but it's a crime and results in a powerful but sterile child. That usually kills the mother on the way out.

So of course since they realized the end is nigh, most groups have gone to encouraging/forcing it for the powerful fighters.

Well I mean I look up the game and see plenty of non-sex things and didn't find all the details about breeding right away so it doesn't seem as central to regulag gameplay. You kind of see rape as the first word in the removed book and all. I mean I'm not denying stuff in other games existing. I'm just seeing it as possible to distinguish between a book about rape villains or something and books that contain dubious elements but aren't based entirely on them.

Though I did see they can apparently breed with wolves. Weird and creepy. Not sexist if that's any comfort...

I suppose White Wolf stuff at least has more depth. You CAN play some of their games like the banned book (or even worse, lol Tzimisce vampires), but you can play other ways. So you can play werewuff as furry rape fantasy, or you can play it as a bunch of eco-terrorists (which is the closest thing to a central theme as it gets).

 

[Secondhand Revenant]

snip

Well that OWoD thing sounds pretty bad but I think it's unfair to compare an image included in a product to the entire concept of a product.

I will say that oWoD can be unapologetically offensive in a myriad of ways because that's just how WW is/was.

Never had any oWoD books so I only really had his example to go off of. It wouldn't really surprise me though. Though it would still be a different level since the entire concept of oWoD was presumably not offensive.

Well the 20th anniversary edition of Vampire outright says you're playing a date rapist. The games in general are about doing WHAT HAS TO BE DONE without losing your humanity to the atrocities you have to commit. So I suppose, by definition, they are games for doing very offensive things.

The early oWoD books were also written by people stuck emotionally as teenagers which didn't help things.

Eh?! I'm gonna have to find a pdf of that to see for myself o__O

Well committing atrocities is one thing. Not all of them are the same. Killing people is generally a standard RP thing. Rape not so much.

What about torturing and killing your friend's underlings for political gain? That's the standard operating procedure for the "good" guys.

Eh. I don't usually see violence quite the same as sexual violence in games. Though I guess when you get to torture that is kind of getting into the same creepy territory.

I kind of gathered in Vampire there are no really good guys.

I think there's still the point that one can go without rape and the other is about it. I still see a distinction that can be made. Even if there is that comment you mentioned, people could run a game just fine.

What if you're seducing your enemies minions through a literal date rape drug to set up a magically enforced Stockholm syndrome, once again for political gain? The line itself is referencing the act of drinking human blood forcefully, which is a pretty apt description when you think of a vampire dragging someone behind an alley and "going at it".

Okay that is pretty creepy. I'd guess it wouldn't get the same reaction because it isn't put that way but that sounds kind of messed up for a game.

Oh well that's kind of a matter of the entire concept of vampires isn't it?

Werewolf is no better, they treat their women as breeders except for the straw feminists that cut off every dangly-bit in sight.

Well that sounds rather awful. They are supposed to all do that?

Yes, with a couple of noted exceptions. And they are also supposed to be heroes. Violently psychotic heroes, but heroes nonetheless.

Well its sexist for sure. I still think it's different because the bad part doesn't define the entire game.

It's actually at the heart of why the setting is fucked (that and the aforementioned violent psychoses). Werewuffs have become so obsessed with breeding and bloodlines that they're dangerously understaffed for their End Of The World Event, so they have to throw their previous rules away to breed up a big enough army.

Yeah but presumably you aren't going out hunting people to have sex with. It may make a difference to the setting but it isn't what the game is all about.

Furry, the Yiffing? Being about sex? Perish the though. Though if I remember correctly one of their endgame scenarios involves sexing a straight up wolf.

Also I looked it up and they can't breed together can they?

Yes and no. They can, but it's a crime and results in a powerful but sterile child. That usually kills the mother on the way out.

So of course since they realized the end is nigh, most groups have gone to encouraging/forcing it for the powerful fighters.

Well I mean I look up the game and see plenty of non-sex things and didn't find all the details about breeding right away so it doesn't seem as central to regulag gameplay. You kind of see rape as the first word in the removed book and all. I mean I'm not denying stuff in other games existing. I'm just seeing it as possible to distinguish between a book about rape villains or something and books that contain dubious elements but aren't based entirely on them.

Though I did see they can apparently breed with wolves. Weird and creepy. Not sexist if that's any comfort...

I suppose White Wolf stuff at least has more depth. You CAN play some of their games like the banned book (or even worse, lol Tzimisce vampires), but you can play other ways. So you can play werewuff as furry rape fantasy, or you can play it as a bunch of eco-terrorists (which is the closest thing to a central theme as it gets).

Yeah, that's what I'm saying. And I think that's a worthwhile distinction between the products, which is really my point. There's some decent recent to view them differently so it doesn't follow that if you refuse to sell one you should refuse the other

 

[crimson5pheonix]

snip

Well that OWoD thing sounds pretty bad but I think it's unfair to compare an image included in a product to the entire concept of a product.

I will say that oWoD can be unapologetically offensive in a myriad of ways because that's just how WW is/was.

Never had any oWoD books so I only really had his example to go off of. It wouldn't really surprise me though. Though it would still be a different level since the entire concept of oWoD was presumably not offensive.

Well the 20th anniversary edition of Vampire outright says you're playing a date rapist. The games in general are about doing WHAT HAS TO BE DONE without losing your humanity to the atrocities you have to commit. So I suppose, by definition, they are games for doing very offensive things.

The early oWoD books were also written by people stuck emotionally as teenagers which didn't help things.

Eh?! I'm gonna have to find a pdf of that to see for myself o__O

Well committing atrocities is one thing. Not all of them are the same. Killing people is generally a standard RP thing. Rape not so much.

What about torturing and killing your friend's underlings for political gain? That's the standard operating procedure for the "good" guys.

Eh. I don't usually see violence quite the same as sexual violence in games. Though I guess when you get to torture that is kind of getting into the same creepy territory.

I kind of gathered in Vampire there are no really good guys.

I think there's still the point that one can go without rape and the other is about it. I still see a distinction that can be made. Even if there is that comment you mentioned, people could run a game just fine.

What if you're seducing your enemies minions through a literal date rape drug to set up a magically enforced Stockholm syndrome, once again for political gain? The line itself is referencing the act of drinking human blood forcefully, which is a pretty apt description when you think of a vampire dragging someone behind an alley and "going at it".

Okay that is pretty creepy. I'd guess it wouldn't get the same reaction because it isn't put that way but that sounds kind of messed up for a game.

Oh well that's kind of a matter of the entire concept of vampires isn't it?

Werewolf is no better, they treat their women as breeders except for the straw feminists that cut off every dangly-bit in sight.

Well that sounds rather awful. They are supposed to all do that?

Yes, with a couple of noted exceptions. And they are also supposed to be heroes. Violently psychotic heroes, but heroes nonetheless.

Well its sexist for sure. I still think it's different because the bad part doesn't define the entire game.

It's actually at the heart of why the setting is fucked (that and the aforementioned violent psychoses). Werewuffs have become so obsessed with breeding and bloodlines that they're dangerously understaffed for their End Of The World Event, so they have to throw their previous rules away to breed up a big enough army.

Yeah but presumably you aren't going out hunting people to have sex with. It may make a difference to the setting but it isn't what the game is all about.

Furry, the Yiffing? Being about sex? Perish the though. Though if I remember correctly one of their endgame scenarios involves sexing a straight up wolf.

Also I looked it up and they can't breed together can they?

Yes and no. They can, but it's a crime and results in a powerful but sterile child. That usually kills the mother on the way out.

So of course since they realized the end is nigh, most groups have gone to encouraging/forcing it for the powerful fighters.

Well I mean I look up the game and see plenty of non-sex things and didn't find all the details about breeding right away so it doesn't seem as central to regulag gameplay. You kind of see rape as the first word in the removed book and all. I mean I'm not denying stuff in other games existing. I'm just seeing it as possible to distinguish between a book about rape villains or something and books that contain dubious elements but aren't based entirely on them.

Though I did see they can apparently breed with wolves. Weird and creepy. Not sexist if that's any comfort...

I suppose White Wolf stuff at least has more depth. You CAN play some of their games like the banned book (or even worse, lol Tzimisce vampires), but you can play other ways. So you can play werewuff as furry rape fantasy, or you can play it as a bunch of eco-terrorists (which is the closest thing to a central theme as it gets).

Yeah, that's what I'm saying. And I think that's a worthwhile distinction between the products, which is really my point. There's some decent recent to view them differently so it doesn't follow that if you refuse to sell one you should refuse the other

So do you know off hand if the banned game is shallow? A game about werewolf eco-terrorists can turn into a rape road trip, can the banned game turn into a save-the-world hack-and-slash?

 

[Secondhand Revenant]

snip

Well that OWoD thing sounds pretty bad but I think it's unfair to compare an image included in a product to the entire concept of a product.

I will say that oWoD can be unapologetically offensive in a myriad of ways because that's just how WW is/was.

Never had any oWoD books so I only really had his example to go off of. It wouldn't really surprise me though. Though it would still be a different level since the entire concept of oWoD was presumably not offensive.

Well the 20th anniversary edition of Vampire outright says you're playing a date rapist. The games in general are about doing WHAT HAS TO BE DONE without losing your humanity to the atrocities you have to commit. So I suppose, by definition, they are games for doing very offensive things.

The early oWoD books were also written by people stuck emotionally as teenagers which didn't help things.

Eh?! I'm gonna have to find a pdf of that to see for myself o__O

Well committing atrocities is one thing. Not all of them are the same. Killing people is generally a standard RP thing. Rape not so much.

What about torturing and killing your friend's underlings for political gain? That's the standard operating procedure for the "good" guys.

Eh. I don't usually see violence quite the same as sexual violence in games. Though I guess when you get to torture that is kind of getting into the same creepy territory.

I kind of gathered in Vampire there are no really good guys.

I think there's still the point that one can go without rape and the other is about it. I still see a distinction that can be made. Even if there is that comment you mentioned, people could run a game just fine.

What if you're seducing your enemies minions through a literal date rape drug to set up a magically enforced Stockholm syndrome, once again for political gain? The line itself is referencing the act of drinking human blood forcefully, which is a pretty apt description when you think of a vampire dragging someone behind an alley and "going at it".

Okay that is pretty creepy. I'd guess it wouldn't get the same reaction because it isn't put that way but that sounds kind of messed up for a game.

Oh well that's kind of a matter of the entire concept of vampires isn't it?

Werewolf is no better, they treat their women as breeders except for the straw feminists that cut off every dangly-bit in sight.

Well that sounds rather awful. They are supposed to all do that?

Yes, with a couple of noted exceptions. And they are also supposed to be heroes. Violently psychotic heroes, but heroes nonetheless.

Well its sexist for sure. I still think it's different because the bad part doesn't define the entire game.

It's actually at the heart of why the setting is fucked (that and the aforementioned violent psychoses). Werewuffs have become so obsessed with breeding and bloodlines that they're dangerously understaffed for their End Of The World Event, so they have to throw their previous rules away to breed up a big enough army.

Yeah but presumably you aren't going out hunting people to have sex with. It may make a difference to the setting but it isn't what the game is all about.

Furry, the Yiffing? Being about sex? Perish the though. Though if I remember correctly one of their endgame scenarios involves sexing a straight up wolf.

Also I looked it up and they can't breed together can they?

Yes and no. They can, but it's a crime and results in a powerful but sterile child. That usually kills the mother on the way out.

So of course since they realized the end is nigh, most groups have gone to encouraging/forcing it for the powerful fighters.

Well I mean I look up the game and see plenty of non-sex things and didn't find all the details about breeding right away so it doesn't seem as central to regulag gameplay. You kind of see rape as the first word in the removed book and all. I mean I'm not denying stuff in other games existing. I'm just seeing it as possible to distinguish between a book about rape villains or something and books that contain dubious elements but aren't based entirely on them.

Though I did see they can apparently breed with wolves. Weird and creepy. Not sexist if that's any comfort...

I suppose White Wolf stuff at least has more depth. You CAN play some of their games like the banned book (or even worse, lol Tzimisce vampires), but you can play other ways. So you can play werewuff as furry rape fantasy, or you can play it as a bunch of eco-terrorists (which is the closest thing to a central theme as it gets).

Yeah, that's what I'm saying. And I think that's a worthwhile distinction between the products, which is really my point. There's some decent recent to view them differently so it doesn't follow that if you refuse to sell one you should refuse the other

So do you know off hand if the banned game is shallow? A game about werewolf eco-terrorists can turn into a rape road trip, can the banned game turn into a save-the-world hack-and-slash?

Well I imagine since it's about what sounds like going after supervillain rapists that would kind of make the book unnecessary, no? I gather it's a supplement

 

[The Rogue Wolf]

Let's get some terminology clear. A store choosing not to sell an item is not "censorship". They have not "banned" that item. If I run the only store in town and I choose not to sell your Child Beheader XTL-500, I am not "censoring" you. This company is not forcing the creator to cease making that thing; it is simply choosing not to sell it. Criticize them for that all you want, but don't start making it out to look like you're some crusader for freedom or something.

Then again, these days the common definition of "censorship" seems to me "they want to change this thing I like".

 

[crimson5pheonix]

snip

Well that OWoD thing sounds pretty bad but I think it's unfair to compare an image included in a product to the entire concept of a product.

I will say that oWoD can be unapologetically offensive in a myriad of ways because that's just how WW is/was.

Never had any oWoD books so I only really had his example to go off of. It wouldn't really surprise me though. Though it would still be a different level since the entire concept of oWoD was presumably not offensive.

Well the 20th anniversary edition of Vampire outright says you're playing a date rapist. The games in general are about doing WHAT HAS TO BE DONE without losing your humanity to the atrocities you have to commit. So I suppose, by definition, they are games for doing very offensive things.

The early oWoD books were also written by people stuck emotionally as teenagers which didn't help things.

Eh?! I'm gonna have to find a pdf of that to see for myself o__O

Well committing atrocities is one thing. Not all of them are the same. Killing people is generally a standard RP thing. Rape not so much.

What about torturing and killing your friend's underlings for political gain? That's the standard operating procedure for the "good" guys.

Eh. I don't usually see violence quite the same as sexual violence in games. Though I guess when you get to torture that is kind of getting into the same creepy territory.

I kind of gathered in Vampire there are no really good guys.

I think there's still the point that one can go without rape and the other is about it. I still see a distinction that can be made. Even if there is that comment you mentioned, people could run a game just fine.

What if you're seducing your enemies minions through a literal date rape drug to set up a magically enforced Stockholm syndrome, once again for political gain? The line itself is referencing the act of drinking human blood forcefully, which is a pretty apt description when you think of a vampire dragging someone behind an alley and "going at it".

Okay that is pretty creepy. I'd guess it wouldn't get the same reaction because it isn't put that way but that sounds kind of messed up for a game.

Oh well that's kind of a matter of the entire concept of vampires isn't it?

Werewolf is no better, they treat their women as breeders except for the straw feminists that cut off every dangly-bit in sight.

Well that sounds rather awful. They are supposed to all do that?

Yes, with a couple of noted exceptions. And they are also supposed to be heroes. Violently psychotic heroes, but heroes nonetheless.

Well its sexist for sure. I still think it's different because the bad part doesn't define the entire game.

It's actually at the heart of why the setting is fucked (that and the aforementioned violent psychoses). Werewuffs have become so obsessed with breeding and bloodlines that they're dangerously understaffed for their End Of The World Event, so they have to throw their previous rules away to breed up a big enough army.

Yeah but presumably you aren't going out hunting people to have sex with. It may make a difference to the setting but it isn't what the game is all about.

Furry, the Yiffing? Being about sex? Perish the though. Though if I remember correctly one of their endgame scenarios involves sexing a straight up wolf.

Also I looked it up and they can't breed together can they?

Yes and no. They can, but it's a crime and results in a powerful but sterile child. That usually kills the mother on the way out.

So of course since they realized the end is nigh, most groups have gone to encouraging/forcing it for the powerful fighters.

Well I mean I look up the game and see plenty of non-sex things and didn't find all the details about breeding right away so it doesn't seem as central to regulag gameplay. You kind of see rape as the first word in the removed book and all. I mean I'm not denying stuff in other games existing. I'm just seeing it as possible to distinguish between a book about rape villains or something and books that contain dubious elements but aren't based entirely on them.

Though I did see they can apparently breed with wolves. Weird and creepy. Not sexist if that's any comfort...

I suppose White Wolf stuff at least has more depth. You CAN play some of their games like the banned book (or even worse, lol Tzimisce vampires), but you can play other ways. So you can play werewuff as furry rape fantasy, or you can play it as a bunch of eco-terrorists (which is the closest thing to a central theme as it gets).

Yeah, that's what I'm saying. And I think that's a worthwhile distinction between the products, which is really my point. There's some decent recent to view them differently so it doesn't follow that if you refuse to sell one you should refuse the other

So do you know off hand if the banned game is shallow? A game about werewolf eco-terrorists can turn into a rape road trip, can the banned game turn into a save-the-world hack-and-slash?

Well I imagine since it's about what sounds like going after supervillain rapists that would kind of make the book unnecessary, no? I gather it's a supplement

Oh no, I've now gone and looked this up. It's a supplement for "Black Tokyo", which already has and is based around these various rules. On the one hand it is pretty awful, but more by the crunch rather than the fluff atrocities of the WW stuff I posted earlier.

On the other hand all of the rest of the Black Tokyo stuff is still available on DrivethruRPG.

 

[Secondhand Revenant]

snip

Well that OWoD thing sounds pretty bad but I think it's unfair to compare an image included in a product to the entire concept of a product.

I will say that oWoD can be unapologetically offensive in a myriad of ways because that's just how WW is/was.

Never had any oWoD books so I only really had his example to go off of. It wouldn't really surprise me though. Though it would still be a different level since the entire concept of oWoD was presumably not offensive.

Well the 20th anniversary edition of Vampire outright says you're playing a date rapist. The games in general are about doing WHAT HAS TO BE DONE without losing your humanity to the atrocities you have to commit. So I suppose, by definition, they are games for doing very offensive things.

The early oWoD books were also written by people stuck emotionally as teenagers which didn't help things.

Eh?! I'm gonna have to find a pdf of that to see for myself o__O

Well committing atrocities is one thing. Not all of them are the same. Killing people is generally a standard RP thing. Rape not so much.

What about torturing and killing your friend's underlings for political gain? That's the standard operating procedure for the "good" guys.

Eh. I don't usually see violence quite the same as sexual violence in games. Though I guess when you get to torture that is kind of getting into the same creepy territory.

I kind of gathered in Vampire there are no really good guys.

I think there's still the point that one can go without rape and the other is about it. I still see a distinction that can be made. Even if there is that comment you mentioned, people could run a game just fine.

What if you're seducing your enemies minions through a literal date rape drug to set up a magically enforced Stockholm syndrome, once again for political gain? The line itself is referencing the act of drinking human blood forcefully, which is a pretty apt description when you think of a vampire dragging someone behind an alley and "going at it".

Okay that is pretty creepy. I'd guess it wouldn't get the same reaction because it isn't put that way but that sounds kind of messed up for a game.

Oh well that's kind of a matter of the entire concept of vampires isn't it?

Werewolf is no better, they treat their women as breeders except for the straw feminists that cut off every dangly-bit in sight.

Well that sounds rather awful. They are supposed to all do that?

Yes, with a couple of noted exceptions. And they are also supposed to be heroes. Violently psychotic heroes, but heroes nonetheless.

Well its sexist for sure. I still think it's different because the bad part doesn't define the entire game.

It's actually at the heart of why the setting is fucked (that and the aforementioned violent psychoses). Werewuffs have become so obsessed with breeding and bloodlines that they're dangerously understaffed for their End Of The World Event, so they have to throw their previous rules away to breed up a big enough army.

Yeah but presumably you aren't going out hunting people to have sex with. It may make a difference to the setting but it isn't what the game is all about.

Furry, the Yiffing? Being about sex? Perish the though. Though if I remember correctly one of their endgame scenarios involves sexing a straight up wolf.

Also I looked it up and they can't breed together can they?

Yes and no. They can, but it's a crime and results in a powerful but sterile child. That usually kills the mother on the way out.

So of course since they realized the end is nigh, most groups have gone to encouraging/forcing it for the powerful fighters.

Well I mean I look up the game and see plenty of non-sex things and didn't find all the details about breeding right away so it doesn't seem as central to regulag gameplay. You kind of see rape as the first word in the removed book and all. I mean I'm not denying stuff in other games existing. I'm just seeing it as possible to distinguish between a book about rape villains or something and books that contain dubious elements but aren't based entirely on them.

Though I did see they can apparently breed with wolves. Weird and creepy. Not sexist if that's any comfort...

I suppose White Wolf stuff at least has more depth. You CAN play some of their games like the banned book (or even worse, lol Tzimisce vampires), but you can play other ways. So you can play werewuff as furry rape fantasy, or you can play it as a bunch of eco-terrorists (which is the closest thing to a central theme as it gets).

Yeah, that's what I'm saying. And I think that's a worthwhile distinction between the products, which is really my point. There's some decent recent to view them differently so it doesn't follow that if you refuse to sell one you should refuse the other

So do you know off hand if the banned game is shallow? A game about werewolf eco-terrorists can turn into a rape road trip, can the banned game turn into a save-the-world hack-and-slash?

Well I imagine since it's about what sounds like going after supervillain rapists that would kind of make the book unnecessary, no? I gather it's a supplement

Oh no, I've now gone and looked this up. It's a supplement for "Black Tokyo", which already has and is based around these various rules. On the one hand it is pretty awful, but more by the crunch rather than the fluff atrocities of the WW stuff I posted earlier.

On the other hand all of the rest of the Black Tokyo stuff is still available on DrivethruRPG.

I'm gonna have to look it up when not using work wifi.

Yeah it was just that supplement and some card game removed, not more. Well yet I suppose. I don't really expect more to vanish

 

[crimson5pheonix]

I'm gonna have to look it up when not using work wifi.

Yeah it was just that supplement and some card game removed, not more. Well yet I suppose. I don't really expect more to vanish

I don't see why they were removed, I hope nothing else gets removed.

 

[Something Amyss]

Well that OWoD thing sounds pretty bad but I think it's unfair to compare an image included in a product to the entire concept of a product.

I'm not sure when we started being "fair" on this topic. The cries of censorship have always been very one-sided and pretty much the opposite of fair.

However, this is White Wolf. I almost mentioned them when Sarge was arguing that you don't want to put off your customer base. They were the second largest RPG producer at one point while basically telling their fans to fuck off for playing their games wrong. They were 2edgy4u before it was a meme, and threw in a lot of this sort of thing into their books. Especially the Black Dog imprint.

I mean, it's a Sabbat sourcebook, so it's bound to be depraved anyway. But yes, we're comparing an image to a core concept.

Is it worse than the core concept of Tournament of Rapists?

Eh. Not really.

 

[Secondhand Revenant]

I'm gonna have to look it up when not using work wifi.

Yeah it was just that supplement and some card game removed, not more. Well yet I suppose. I don't really expect more to vanish

I don't see why they were removed, I hope nothing else gets removed.

Well I'd guess because people objected to Tournament of Rape and it's got a pretty dubious premise.

The reasoning for the other one sounded a bit over the top. I'd understand not wanting to step into the whole GG mess but how it got described is, to say the least, a lot worse than what I've actually seen. I've not heard of actual violence just internet shit flinging.

Oh and yeah generally not good to see things vanish. I just can't muster sympathy for Tournament of Rape not being there

 

[crimson5pheonix]

I'm gonna have to look it up when not using work wifi.

Yeah it was just that supplement and some card game removed, not more. Well yet I suppose. I don't really expect more to vanish

I don't see why they were removed, I hope nothing else gets removed.

Well I'd guess because people objected to Tournament of Rape and it's got a pretty dubious premise.

The reasoning for the other one sounded a bit over the top. I'd understand not wanting to step into the whole GG mess but how it got described is, to say the least, a lot worse than what I've actually seen. I've not heard of actual violence just internet shit flinging.

Oh and yeah generally not good to see things vanish. I just can't muster sympathy for Tournament of Rape not being there

But the premise is an extrapolation of an RPG that's still being sold on the website, complete with rules for dick cannons. Reading a description of some of the things in this game makes it look almost FATAL bad.

 

[Secondhand Revenant]

I'm gonna have to look it up when not using work wifi.

Yeah it was just that supplement and some card game removed, not more. Well yet I suppose. I don't really expect more to vanish

I don't see why they were removed, I hope nothing else gets removed.

Well I'd guess because people objected to Tournament of Rape and it's got a pretty dubious premise.

The reasoning for the other one sounded a bit over the top. I'd understand not wanting to step into the whole GG mess but how it got described is, to say the least, a lot worse than what I've actually seen. I've not heard of actual violence just internet shit flinging.

Oh and yeah generally not good to see things vanish. I just can't muster sympathy for Tournament of Rape not being there

But the premise is an extrapolation of an RPG that's still being sold on the website, complete with rules for dick cannons. Reading a description of some of the things in this game makes it look almost FATAL bad.

Well dick cannons sound pretty stupid but that sounds more immature than rapey and creepy. I wouldn't know if it does or doesn't go into more rapey stuff, I never heard of it until today...

FATAL bad? Geez

Edit: Wait do the dick cannons do what you'd expect a dick cannon to do. I'm tired and utterly missed the implication

 

[crimson5pheonix]

I'm gonna have to look it up when not using work wifi.

Yeah it was just that supplement and some card game removed, not more. Well yet I suppose. I don't really expect more to vanish

I don't see why they were removed, I hope nothing else gets removed.

Well I'd guess because people objected to Tournament of Rape and it's got a pretty dubious premise.

The reasoning for the other one sounded a bit over the top. I'd understand not wanting to step into the whole GG mess but how it got described is, to say the least, a lot worse than what I've actually seen. I've not heard of actual violence just internet shit flinging.

Oh and yeah generally not good to see things vanish. I just can't muster sympathy for Tournament of Rape not being there

But the premise is an extrapolation of an RPG that's still being sold on the website, complete with rules for dick cannons. Reading a description of some of the things in this game makes it look almost FATAL bad.

Well dick cannons sound pretty stupid but that sounds more immature than rapey and creepy. I wouldn't know if it does or doesn't go into more rapey stuff, I never heard of it until today...

FATAL bad? Geez

A slightly safe snippet to post:

Spoiler: Emphasis on 'slightly'

New magical items include magical date rape drugs, machine guns that get attack bonuses against rapists, and a dildo that will reanimate any corpse raped with it as an undead servant bound to your will.

I'm thinking there's some inconsistency in this decision.

EDIT: I posted dick cannons in haste, they're more like stabby dick spears.

 

[Secondhand Revenant]

I'm gonna have to look it up when not using work wifi.

Yeah it was just that supplement and some card game removed, not more. Well yet I suppose. I don't really expect more to vanish

I don't see why they were removed, I hope nothing else gets removed.

Well I'd guess because people objected to Tournament of Rape and it's got a pretty dubious premise.

The reasoning for the other one sounded a bit over the top. I'd understand not wanting to step into the whole GG mess but how it got described is, to say the least, a lot worse than what I've actually seen. I've not heard of actual violence just internet shit flinging.

Oh and yeah generally not good to see things vanish. I just can't muster sympathy for Tournament of Rape not being there

But the premise is an extrapolation of an RPG that's still being sold on the website, complete with rules for dick cannons. Reading a description of some of the things in this game makes it look almost FATAL bad.

Well dick cannons sound pretty stupid but that sounds more immature than rapey and creepy. I wouldn't know if it does or doesn't go into more rapey stuff, I never heard of it until today...

FATAL bad? Geez

A slightly safe snippet to post:

Spoiler: Emphasis on 'slightly'

New magical items include magical date rape drugs, machine guns that get attack bonuses against rapists, and a dildo that will reanimate any corpse raped with it as an undead servant bound to your will.

I'm thinking there's some inconsistency in this decision.

EDIT: I posted dick cannons in haste, they're more like stabby dick spears.

Well that's absurdly over the top LOL

That does seem inconsistent. Unless there's some particular objection to the other book I'm missing it seems like that one is as bad as you might imagine the other being.

Though I'm kind of ambivalent about the inconsistency. I mean I guess this shows they mostly did it due to the reaction people had?

 

[crimson5pheonix]

I'm gonna have to look it up when not using work wifi.

Yeah it was just that supplement and some card game removed, not more. Well yet I suppose. I don't really expect more to vanish

I don't see why they were removed, I hope nothing else gets removed.

Well I'd guess because people objected to Tournament of Rape and it's got a pretty dubious premise.

The reasoning for the other one sounded a bit over the top. I'd understand not wanting to step into the whole GG mess but how it got described is, to say the least, a lot worse than what I've actually seen. I've not heard of actual violence just internet shit flinging.

Oh and yeah generally not good to see things vanish. I just can't muster sympathy for Tournament of Rape not being there

But the premise is an extrapolation of an RPG that's still being sold on the website, complete with rules for dick cannons. Reading a description of some of the things in this game makes it look almost FATAL bad.

Well dick cannons sound pretty stupid but that sounds more immature than rapey and creepy. I wouldn't know if it does or doesn't go into more rapey stuff, I never heard of it until today...

FATAL bad? Geez

A slightly safe snippet to post:

Spoiler: Emphasis on 'slightly'

New magical items include magical date rape drugs, machine guns that get attack bonuses against rapists, and a dildo that will reanimate any corpse raped with it as an undead servant bound to your will.

I'm thinking there's some inconsistency in this decision.

EDIT: I posted dick cannons in haste, they're more like stabby dick spears.

Well that's absurdly over the top LOL

That does seem inconsistent. Unless there's some particular objection to the other book I'm missing it seems like that one is as bad as you might imagine the other being.

Though I'm kind of ambivalent about the inconsistency. I mean I guess this shows they mostly did it due to the reaction people had?

Apparently, for whatever that's worth.

 

[Something Amyss]

I mean I guess this shows they mostly did it due to the reaction people had?

Including, it should be noted, publishers pulling out of DTRPG.

This should probably be repeated. Therumancer is blaming "anonymous left wingers," which isn't really true. When I looked this up, the first hit was a NeoGaf thread. Now I don't know how reputable NeoGaf is, but fortunately, there are tweets. And looking at Twitter, I saw more.

The guy behind Pathfinder also called them out, which had the possibility of being a big deal down the road.

 

[Secondhand Revenant]

I mean I guess this shows they mostly did it due to the reaction people had?

Including, it should be noted, publishers pulling out of DTRPG.

This should probably be repeated. Therumancer is blaming "anonymous left wingers," which isn't really true. When I looked this up, the first hit was a NeoGaf thread. Now I don't know how reputable NeoGaf is, but fortunately, there are tweets. And looking at Twitter, I saw more.

The guy behind Pathfinder also called them out, which had the possibility of being a big deal down the road.

That would be a pretty good reason for it, yes. Probably should have been mentioned in the OP, but I suppose it's easier for the OP's message to blame faceless left wingers instead of RPG makers.

 

[Something Amyss]

That would be a pretty good reason for it, yes. Probably should have been mentioned in the OP, but I suppose it's easier for the OP's message to blame faceless left wingers instead of RPG makers.

Personally, I would think it would be bad (or not) regardless of who did it.

 

[Therumancer]

This isn't censorship. This is a private company refusing to stock content it judges to be unsuitable for humanity. They don't have to stock the content if they don't want to, and forcing them to would be an infringement of their rights. There are also other ways to distribute such content.

The flashpoint of the entire thing is that two products on the site were pulled after complaints from various anonymous left wingers (and I say this without the usual rhetoric)

If they were anonymous, how do you know they were left? I can list plenty of examples of the right being behind moral panic and censorship.

All I can say is do your own research into the subject and take a look at who is on each side. The reasons were pretty clearly stated though the individuals have not been named. That is what I meant. We're not seeing "Joe Blow, Joe Moe, and Joe Quo, all made this complaint" we're seeing the complaint, and the reasons for it. Not to mention that "Gamersgate" generates a specific type of opposition.

What side I'm on is obvious, but the point here is that since The Escapist missed it and this is news within the Geekosphere so to speak I figured some people would want to check it out. Feel free to draw your own conclusions.