One Last look at Mass Effect 3.

[DioWallachia]

The Reaper battle was the worst part of the whole game gameplay-wise, but we're talking about story-wise here.

Those videos also include the storywise aspect. Do not forget that the Quarian were shown as being very assholes to Shep and almost letting him/her die to the point that it seemed that the writers wanted us to root for the Geth instead, when the writing should have polished them both so the choice at the end would be a genuine moral choice.

Also, if you dont have enough PR System points, then you cant save them both.

 

[DioWallachia]

And dont you feel something wrong with that? with being an average product coming from the same people that made Baldur's Gate AND Knights of The Old Republic?

The thing is, I haven't actually played either of those series. Anyway, I thought it was better than average. Not spectacular, but good enough for me to want to play it again and again. But hey, that's me.

Lets just say that Mass Effect, compared to the rest of gaming history, ends up being average. The concept of an entire TRILOGY of branching storytelling would have been amazing, it even could have been a geniune argument of games as art in form of interactive storytelling (unlike other arguments that critics use like Bioshock or Braid). But in the end it was a lie, it wasnt even planned out ahead of time.

Speaking of history, the fact that Casey Hudson considers final bosses to be "so video-gamey" speaks volumes of how ignorant these people are. Its almost like Fallout 1 - 2 and Planescape Torment didnt existed or never did the "talk the final boss to death with arguments, exchange of ideas or the power of belief"

Comments like that hurt so much that we may as well consider Mass Effect 3 the new "E.T for the Atari 2600". They dont precicely suck THAT hard, but there are so many many things going on behind the scenes and expectations, that it was bound to end up in a disaster. And lets not even get started when the "artistic integrity" starts to be abused by more developers that get lazy but need to pass the blame to the gamers for "not getting it".

 

[ComradeJim270]

In hindsight, I'm actually impressed they did as well as they did. They attempted to weave a complex, narrative with many, many subplots that can go in multiple directions into a coherent trilogy of three games. That's never been done before. It's easy to say they fucked it up, but I'm kind of amazed they didn't fuck it up even more.

The leaked possible ending I later learned about was much worse in my opinion (it makes far less sense than the one we got), and the "indoctrination theory" would have been pretty much the worst ending I can imagine without going into complete, cartoonish absurdity or Shepard defeating the Reapers with THE POWER OF LOVE or something, so my original opinion on the ending (bemusement and disappointment) has actually been replaced with a more positive one. The story kind of ran out of steam in the end, yes, but I felt the game itself (and the whole series) was otherwise of such quality that I still like all three games and still feel good about them. The EC was quite satisfactory to me. Not everything I'd wished for, but I'm so jaded and pessimistic about unreleased games and game content that I wasn't expecting much from it.

I'm actually cautiously optimistic now that BioWare has learned a bit about their own abilities and limitations and about their relationship with their customers that they'll be able to put together something truly excellent (or at least good) for DA3. It would be very easy for them to screw the pooch on that title, but between DA2 and ME3 they've had an opportunity to learn what doesn't work. Time will tell if they've learned anything from it.

 

[00slash00]

i disagree with every criticism the op made. if it werent for journey, mass effect 3 would easily be my game of the year. i loved every second of it and that includes the ending. i think expanding the ending was good because it made it far more emotional but i didnt find the original endings bad by any means. i dont do multiple playthroughs, making completelt different choices. i had one character that i played throughout the series so i honestly couldnt care less that the ending was determined by a choice you make in the last few seconds of the game. ven if your choices dont change how the series ends, it still changes how the story evolves. why is that not enough? i dont understand how people can argue that the game was a failure because their choices only effected the journey, not the ending. i find it amazing that mass effect 3 made so many people lose faith in bioware when, for me, it did a lot to renew my faith in them

 

[Souplex]

The Reaper battle was the worst part of the whole game gameplay-wise, but we're talking about story-wise here.

Those videos also include the storywise aspect. Do not forget that the Quarian were shown as being very assholes to Shep and almost letting him/her die to the point that it seemed that the writers wanted us to root for the Geth instead, when the writing should have polished them both so the choice at the end would be a genuine moral choice.

Also, if you dont have enough PR System points, then you cant save them both.

To be fair, it's pretty much impossible to make militant pro-slavery pro-genocide groups seem likable. Of course you're supposed to side with the Geth/Broker peace. Why would anyone side with the Quarians no matter how they spun it, other than declaring that it's okay because the Geth are just machines, and therefore don't have souls, or some other bullshit?
That and I think they were trying to make a statement about the Israeli government as the obvious real world parallel to the Quarians.

 

[Murmillos]

The problem with ME3, is rooted in ME2. Say what you will about ME1 (I'll agree to most about everything) but the such drastic changes that ME2 suffered as a result, upsetting the tone to which the franchise couldn't handle.

ME2 is a complete 180 difference in tone and direction that ME1 started the franchise out in. By ME3, having being pulled in both directions already from ME1 and ME2, felt paralyzed as a result and suffered in the end.

[Yet; I will admit the best to come from ME2 is Legion and Mordin]

ME1 is best described as an "open world space opera / mystery".
ME2 is best described as a "closed corridor space action adventure".

I think fixing ME3, requires fixing ME2, in which I mean completely rewriting the script.
ME1 set the tone that Shepard is a badass who can get anything done, yet only his small group believes in the "Reapers" [The Council dismissed that claim].
ME2 would have set a stronger tone if the game stayed on that same focus. Shepard is still the first and foremost bad-ass Spectre, but his higher ups are growing increasing frustrated with his(/her) fixation on the Reaper issue. The only reason the Council keeps Shepard on the pay-role despite his child-like obsession with the "Reapers" is his ability to "get it* done." [*it being ultra classified missions.]
Between Spectre missions (of straight up bad assery) ME2 constantly puts Shepard into contact with ancient Reaper artifacts which continues his downward spiral of spiritual insanity. Shepard goes mentally "crazier" but gets combat "better" [yet you still are still in control of his Morality -- that never changes].

This sets up the stage for Arrival perfectly, and of course by ME3 hits, Shepard finally feels that euphoric validation of finally being right, but is in such in a mental state of fragility (due to Reaper mental manipulation) nearly is unable to stop the Reapers. Despite the man everybody now looks to (for finally being "right").


I'm on the fence if we should have a one final show down ending: (Which is noted below because.. hey.. as Bioware showed, 1-2 endings is much cheaper [used in all manners of the word cheap] then making up 4-10 endings.

For which, the Crucible is a galaxy wide transmitter with the ability to rewrite the Reapers. But the reason nobody has ever had a chance to build/use one before, is because nobody knew of Reaper programing before, except until now, when Nazara provided the Geth part of his code. [Nazara's real motives were to only used the Geth, and then eradicate them when they helped open the Citadel's relay... but we know how that turned out for him). Either by force or by friendship, the Geth give you the code to rewrite the Reaper Programing code. Due to damage, the Crucible requires a human to fire it. That human will be Shepard. The ending either boils down to having the Reapers help rebuild, or have them all fly into the nearest sun/blackhole.. forever ending their influence (short of the Mass Relays).

 

[Ron Alphafight]

I know I'm in the minority, but I really liked the ending and it actually makes me sad to see so many people despise a game that ranks in my top 5 of all time.

Part of the reason I liked the ending was because of how I went into it. For example, I knew before starting it that there was no way that the choices from the previous games were going to have a major effect on the ending (despite what we were told). And actually, I determined this (among other things) from ME2. I was disappointed that my decisions didn't have a bigger effect other than a dialogue line or two. So a lot of the problems people had with the end were non-issues for me.

Having said that, even if I was unprepared, I still would have liked the ending, just not as much. The reason is the ending is greatly influenced by the journey, and I thoroughly enjoyed the journey. This trilogy is deeply personal to each player. Every person will experience aspects of the game differently, have different interpretations of events or subtext in dialogue, etc. Therefore, no person's opinion is wrong.

I'm not going to go into detail about how I interpreted the last 10 minutes, but it fit almost perfectly with how I saw the rest of the trilogy. And the extended cut just reinforced it more. (and no, I don't buy the indoctrination theory)

So, when the internet was (and still is) filled with people saying how atrocious the game was, I was disappointed that they didn't see what I saw.

 

[Ed130 The Vanguard]

People hated it.

People on this site hated it.

I tallied up the negative mentions of ME3 in 'Worst game(s) of 2012?' thread and it received nearly twice as many as its nearest rival (Assassins Creed 3 if you want to know)

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/9.395379-Worst-game-s-of-2012?page=8#16108010

I didn't buy it due to the excessive DLC being peddled by EA.

I suspect it will go down in history, but not in a good way.

 

[Joseph Harrison]

Mass Effect 3 was good with a lackluster ending

Fans overreacted

Game Journalists were dicks and offended people

Bioware released a free DLC to soothe hurt feelings and fans still were mad

Then everyone moved on and realized that holding a petty grudge for far longer than reasonable hurts nobody but yourself.

Or at least I hoped that last point was true but reading some of the comments in this thread made me realize the unfortunate truth that people will take 1% of a game and make it the most important thing in their lives and refuse to change their opinions, and yes they are opinions.

 

[lord Claincy Ffnord]

Mass Effect 3 was good with a lackluster ending

Fans overreacted

Game Journalists were dicks and offended people

Bioware released a free DLC to soothe hurt feelings and fans still were mad

Then everyone moved on and realized that holding a petty grudge for far longer than reasonable hurts nobody but yourself.

Or at least I hoped that last point was true but reading some of the comments in this thread made me realize the unfortunate truth that people will take 1% of a game and make it the most important thing in their lives and refuse to change their opinions, and yes they are opinions.

This sums up how I feel quite well. The game as a whole is still one of my favourites (majorly because of characters,...and the multiplayer sure helps). The ending wasn't as good as we could have hoped for, I think it was disappointing but not terrible and with the EC to me it is simply an eh ending. Not something special to be remarked on good or bad. (Spose it works as a good case study on the dangers of excessive hype).

 

[DioWallachia]

To be fair, it's pretty much impossible to make militant pro-slavery pro-genocide groups seem likable.

I dissagree, one CAN make pro slavery/genocide likable or at least understand their pain. Behold the game that Mass Effect was inspired....and the antagonists:

Of course you're supposed to side with the Geth/Broker peace. Why would anyone side with the Quarians no matter how they spun it, other than declaring that it's okay because the Geth are just machines, and therefore don't have souls, or some other bullshit?
That and I think they were trying to make a statement about the Israeli government as the obvious real world parallel to the Quarians.

Writer's Craft its supposed to make ALL the character be as beliavable as possible, by making them tree dimencional as possible. What we end up having instead, its 1 dimencional characters in the form of the Quarian and the Geth as SAINTS when we see their backstory during the VT Matrix thing we play.

Writers should also be able to make both sides of a conflict to be likable by communicating to the audience how they end up the way they are (regardless if its based on the real world or not) Otherwise, its just war propaganda.

 

[DioWallachia]

This sums up how I feel quite well. The game as a whole is still one of my favourites (majorly because of characters,...and the multiplayer sure helps). The ending wasn't as good as we could have hoped for, I think it was disappointing but not terrible and with the EC to me it is simply an eh ending. Not something special to be remarked on good or bad. (Spose it works as a good case study on the dangers of excessive hype).

This is Bioware we are talking about. They made Baldur's Gate, Knights of the Old Republic, Neverwinter Nights and MDK2. They had a long history of making good games with focus on the story, so this isnt some hype, this is trusting the developers that we already know they could do it just fine..........and then EA happened, Dragon Age 2 and ME2 - 3 happened.


You should skip to 1:03:00 and onward

You may think that the ending is STILL ok, and that would be fine if it wasnt for the repercutions that this may have in the whole industry. Imagine more people using the "artistic integrity" to excuse more lazy design choices now that developers KNOW that gamers fear being marked as "entitled" and that they care so much about the medium being art, that they fear that their opinions may harm it forever.

Dont you feel with all your heart, that this can be exploited?

 

[bug_of_war]

I'm extremely disappointed that the Indoctrination theory wasn't what they went with. I mean...Bioware actually went and set everything up so perfectly...

Except for a few major holes in the IT such as Shepard was never in or around a Reaper for more than an hour at max so he couldn't be indoctrinated. Also, the whole dream sequence things could also be related to PTSD as Shepard has gone through quite a lot which can and does cause detrimental effects.

 

[bug_of_war]

The only problem I had with the game was that I couldn't use some squadmates from ME2. I mean, I would have chosen anyone else so that I didn't have to have Tali on my squad because I really, REALLY don't like her or the Quarians in general. However, my biggest hate is the fans. The games ending was a perfect summary of the entire series. I'll elaborate on that in a bit, but the reason I have a gripe with the fans is because I can no longer say "I thought ME3 was good" without having a dosen neckbeards jump down my throat that their fem shep died and how the Crucible was a Deus Ex Machina (Even though it really isn't).

Ok, so what did I mean by the endings summarising the series? Basically,

Spoiler

The first ending being destroy fits in with the first game. You spent the whole of ME1 trying to stop Saren and defeat the reapers. You wanted nothing more than their destruction and your survival (this plays on human psychology as well, what we don't understand we fear, then hate, then want dead).
Second option was control, in the second game, The Illusive Man frequently suggested that the Reapers could be stopped without technically destroying them. The idea is now that you have more information on the Reapers, you can control them (Again with human psychology. Once enough understanding is gathered, we begin to try and control the x in whatever way we can).
The third ending was Synthesis, unification of Synthetic and Organics at the Atomic level. The entire point of the third game is to unify the galaxy against a powerful foe. The final ending unifies everything (Again, playing on psychology, once we understand enough, we try and incorporate the x into our lives)

Think Vampires for the psychology part. At first we feared them and wanted them dead, then we understood their weaknesses and the rules applied to them and could use them, now people want to be vampires (not everyone of course but their is the sub culture).

Also, the Crucible can't be a DEM because a) it was introduced in the first act of ME3. b) we were told that it could STOP the Reapers. and c) a big chunk of the games focus was on getting people to help build the Crucible.

It didn't come out of nowhere in the last 10 minutes of the game, and just because the *Thingy you know what I am talking about* does not call itself the Crucible or the Catalyst, does not make the Crucible and it's effects DEM because they follow the series in their effects and was introduced early enough in the game to not be a DEM.