One of the thing that bugs me with the Zombie Apocalypse...

[Tarkand]

I've played Dead Rising 2 recently, I'm currently watching the Walking Dead on AMC and I just read Yahtzee's extra punctuation, so I'm in a zombie mood .

Now to make things clear - I actually enjoy the zombie apocalypse theme. I'm not a hater. But there's something that always bugged me with the scenario...

Basically, I don't quite get how they could over run the military?

The Walking Dead has shown us on abandoned tanks and dead military personnel on several occasions... but it seems to me a bunch of tanks could just run over an almost infinite number of zombies, and that's before you even factor in shooting them and infantry support and all that. Zombies don't hide or run away, if anything they'd move right in front of the tank, lining up to be grinded under its treads.

If nothing else, zombie are usually attracted by sound... how many do you think you could kill with a Grenade duct tapped to a Kitchen timer? Seem to me that the combination of a linked fence and some heavy caliber machine guns could spell doom for hundred if not thousands of zombies as well (They can't get over it and will get mowed down).

Seems to me the only real problem would be running out of bullet/gas... but even so, if a city is deemed lost to the dead (see Atlanta in Walking Dead)... can't you just carpet bomb it? Heck, bomb the city than send in some troops in APC to wipe out whatever survived.

Worse, is that in several of those scenario, our protagonists are poorly equipped and poorly trained individuals, who somehow manage to take down a lot of zombies in the course of their adventures, and if they can do that, you'd think of a team of Delta could wipe out an entire city block of zombies without to much issue.

I understand that part of the problem is always that the 'outbreak' somehow move way faster than anticipated, but that to is hard to believe... The zombie has to bite someone. That person that has to die/succumb to the diseases (depending on which mythos you follow), which usually takes some times (hours, even days). It would most likely take weeks for the disease to spread to a city level, and we're talking months before it reach another center of population - this isn't airborn like Sars or Swine Flu, and Zombies aren't likely to get on an airplane/train/boat to get to another city... plenty of time for an organised military response.

Setting like Dead Rising or Shaun of the Dead, where the initial zombie outbreak cause some damage but is eventually reigned in and controlled make a lot more sense to me than stuff like World War Z or The Walking Dead... and while I like the the visceral feels of those setting, I'm finding it harder to keep my suspension in disbelief in check.

Yes, suspension of disbelief when dealing with zombies. har har. I guess I can accept zombies, but I have a hard time dealing with them taking over the world.

 

[Something Amyss]

Tanks rely on things like fuel, however. Ammunition is also an issue. There is a certain level of attrition involved, and if unprepared, simply deploying to civilian centers will be a logistical nightmare.

 

[Tarkand]

Which is why the idea of the 'Ground Zero' city falling seems very likely to me, first response will be the cops, and while they may be able to do some good, I doubt they'll manage to do much to stop the tide (Than again, there's never been a zombie story where the first infected get his brain blown out by a cops' 9mm before he bit someone for a reason... it wouldn't make much of a movie! But it's a possibility really ).

However, once the situation gets very crazy, the national guard and military will be called upon. And that's the point where I don't really see the zombie standing all that much of a chance.

Even low yield explosive (i.e. Grenades) would be incredibly effective against the zombies who usually clump up like crazy. They just charge into the meat grinder and have no real tactic or strategy to speak off... if you run out of ammo/gas, you can retreat for more - Zombies aren't exactly hard to get away from. Running away while dropping some Grenades would be something they'd be powerless to do anything against.

And ultimately, I'm pretty sure there's more bullet in any given country than they are civilians...

 

[pretentiousname01]

The big problem I see is that no one is every ready to accept it for what it is. At least in the early days. The most crucial time for zombies.

People think there is just something wrong with the crazy guy trying to bite people. SO they treat him like a looney and bring him to a jail or some other center. Usually bites someone along the way. Due to incubation period typically it doesn't manifest right away. That person goes home, to work whatever. Then an outbreak starts there along with wherever patient zero is.

Another point in the zombies favor explosive are a lot less effective than people here seem to think. Zombies do not need all their bits and pieces to work. Unless your grenade removes the head or does damage to the brain you haven't done much except alert everyone to your presence. Fire, as well isn't a fast answer. Typically it will just leave you with flaming zombies until it does enough damage to incapacitate them.

Then there is the "cure" people who hope that everyone can be saved. People who crumble under pressure at a loved one being turned. Or when at the initial stages do not take the steps needed to prevent a full blown outbreak.

 

[sindremaster]

The zombie has to bite someone. That person that has to die/succumb to the diseases (depending on which mythos you follow), which usually takes some times (hours, even days)

Zombies aren't likely to get on an airplane/train/boat to get to another city...

But infected people might. Like you say it usually takes some time to turn into a zombie.

 

[infinity_turtles]

Depends on the method of outbreak I'd guess. If it's waterborne, airborne, or has an incubation period where it can be transmitted from person via bodily fluids, a military base could get overrun from the inside. Just one person in the barracks getting infected without anyone realizing it could result in all of them ending up zombies.

 

[WINDOWCLEAN2]

A Major problem would be if a Zombie infection begins in the Miltary or just a Virus anyone can be infected with, Once the system begins to fall apart from the inside it is a Domino Effect.
However most likley if Zombies do arrive then the Country of origin shall simply be wiped out by Nuclear strikes and the world will move on.

 

[zane224]

Setting like Dead Rising or Shaun of the Dead, where the initial zombie outbreak cause some damage but is eventually reigned in and controlled make a lot more sense to me than stuff like World War Z or The Walking Dead... and while I like the the visceral feels of those setting, I'm finding it harder to keep my suspension in disbelief in check.

World War Z is a setting where it the outbreak is contained too, it just takes time. Re-read the Yonkers section again. I feel Max Brooks does an excellent job describing how and why the military fails against zombies in the begining. A Grenade isnt going to kill a zombie, its just going to turn a walker into a crawler. Same thing with the cannon on a tank. Sure it just took that one in the chest, but there is still a set of head, shoulders and arms coming at you... A very large amount of the damage done to people from bombs and ordianance such as mortars or even dynamite is concussive. the body is litterely shaken so violently that blood vessels and things burst. This wouldnt have much effect on zombies. The only thing that would take them out is if flying debris and shrapnel hit them in the head. And sure, its easy to SAY "Aim for the Head." But its hard to rewire yourself on the spot in an intense situation after years of conditioning to shoot for center mass.

 

[WorldCritic]

Plot convenience is my guess. I would like to test that in a game though by just running over hordes of zombies with a tank.

 

[TaboriHK]

Things like tanks are very resource-intensive. They burn through an unbelievable amount of fuel. And aside from the armor plating, there isn't a whole lot on a tank that is good for dealing with a zombie horde. I think tanks are always used as a metaphor for the military's lack of understanding of the threat, and by extension the government. The idea gets credence from the fact that most people don't feel confident that the government could do an adequate job protecting them and may in fact hinder them through incompetence and complete lack of understanding. It also lends tension to the scenario in general. If soldiers steamrolled the apocalypse right out of the gate, there wouldn't really be a story to tell, would there?

 

[harv3034]

First: AWSOME 40K Terminator pic.

Second: there is actually a stratagy behind the zombies lining up to get run over. If the tanks run over enough, eventually the blood, gore, and body parts will:
A) jam the gears stopping the tank.
B) clog the air intakes causing the engin to overheat.
or C) smear the driver's window so bad he dosen't realize he's heading off a cliff.

Third: due to the press of bodies...
A) the "timer-bomb" would only kill the ones closest (since the pressure wave is what will kill them. Shrapnel (and gas for that matter) is pretty useless against the undead).
B) the fence would fail and the guns would run out of ammo before long.

Fourth: the goal of the zombie apocalypse is to survive and restart, and erasing and entire city (plus burning all that vauable jet fuel) seems abit counterintuitice.
-and the APCs would run into the same troubles as the tanks.

Finally: the reason that the protaganists are usually civilians is that military personel wouldn't be very interesting to watch, what with them being so well trained, disaplined, and less likely to freak out at the slightest provocation.

As for the transmition thing, allow me to reference Yahtzee for a moment.
*clears throught*

"it's futile to examine this sort of thing sceintificly. [The Zombie Apoclypse is] alot like the Bible in that neither have been known to let little things like science get in the way of their fun."

**sorry if this reads like I'm insulting you. I'm REALLY not trying to. I just tend to look at things a bit to literally and logically. I personally don't really like zombie games (I HATED CoD: W@W's zombie mode) and I may have let that color my responce. Again SORRY**

 

[ramboondiea]

first things first, i bloody love the title of this thread, was giggling for about a minute at it.
now down to business, in films and the likes having the army swoop in would be boring so its hand waved, but if you want to bring logic to the situation (which is impossible as a zombie apocalpse is completely illogical) then a good argument would be the military being over run, not many people expect and/prepare for a zombie apocalypse so if it happened they wouildnt know what to do or even believe it so it would spread very quickly, this would also depend on how the infection spreads (saw a film once were it was airborn...it didnt end well ha) also the big thing with zombies is that there relentless, they wont tire so they would just keep going untill re-killed so running out of supplies is a definate possibility also the whole psychological effect etcetera,

 

[Jedoro]

I don't get why people are so afraid of zombies that are completely on fire. I mean, how long does it take for that heat to boil a brain, or even raise its temperature to a lethal level? Tanks and APC's have no excuse for not killing zombies quickly, because of the guns mounted on them. The M1 Abrams has at least one M2 (Ma Deuce) .50-caliber machine gun, if not two, which tears zombies into more manageable pieces. How hard is it to walk up to a zombie with a head, neck, shoulder and arm and put a bullet in its head?

Bradley APC's have a 25mm gun, which is even more fun. Why? Because if you hit a zombie with that, there is no head to shoot afterward. Said zombie, and likely the five behind it, have just become red MIST, incapable of infecting a soldier in a HAZMAT suit. Oh, what, there's a big ass crowd of zombies coming? Get the fucking Bradleys up here to tear that shit apart.

Another thing about the Ma Deuce: it can be put on a Humvee, or even a tripod if you're feeling ballsy. Set up a line of those at eye level in front of the approaching horde, make a shit ton of noise to attract the damn things and physically funnel the bastards in. Voila- meat grinder.

Those aren't even all the bullets the US military has that can destroy multiple zombies with one shot. So yeah, I never understood how the military could fall in a zombie apocalypse, either.

 

[Rofl-Mayo]

Most people would have no way of knowing what to do in a zombie apocalypse to start off.

A good point was brought up all ready and that was the scenario of the infection strating up inside the military base. If it starts inside the base they'll be caught completly off gaurd and they'll be lucky to stop the virus there, but if they fail at stopping this, the military will be lost and it will become a horde of flesh eating corpses.

Another thing that has been brought up is the speed of which the infection spreads. It could spread across a large area of land it a very short amount of time. Reasons for this are that it takes time for the virus to take full affect and that the infectees could simply get into their car and leave to a different city for the day, and go into the final stage of the virus there. Now the virus is in more that one city.

The idea of hitting the head... well that is a bit harder than they make it look in cinema or how easy it feels in shooters. Most of the times we think of hitting the body because it being the bigger target makes it easier to hit. With living organisms a body shot would do nicely because it would manage to slow the attacker down. Now there is a problem with an undead foe though, and that is it will not feel the pain and barely if at all, recoil from the force of the blow. My suggestion would be shootout the legs and run unless you are feeling really confident about being able to score a headshot.

Bonds. Another problem that comes into play when your mother tries to crack open your skull for a juicy meal. It is difficult to raise a gun to your mother's head and blast a bullet into her forehead. however if you hesitate to destroy her brain you've simply risked your life and possibly have been bitten. If you ended up getting bitten in your moment of weakness, you have just put an a short expiration date on yourself. In a few hours you will be craving brains and anyone near will be in danger.

Lack of weaponry for a city's civilization is a weakness from the genocide the undead will bring down on the city. Not everyone has guns, and those that do, well, not all of them hit their marks 100% of the time. The local police deptartment may be able to put out a bit of support but they will eventually fall from lack of ammunition or preparation.
-If the military is still able to launch an attack, I'd reccomend dropping a nuclear bomb on the city to sanitize the area of the virus.
-Now lets return back to the scenario where the virus started in the military base. One soldier from the base gets bit but has no idea that it will turn him into a crazed cannibal in a couple of hours, heads home. In the city that is his home he turns zombie and bites someone there. Long story short: if a man of the military is the one who initiates the infection of a city, chances are that the miitary has alraedy fallen or is about to lose it's fight against it's undead adversary. In which case, the city is not going to recieve any help from it's military.

If a man in a city is the initialization of the outbreak people will pass him off as nuts and have him locked up. They will think that he had bitten them because he was tripping out on cocaine or LSD. They will think that their aggressor's attack had been the result of drugs and not the actions of the undead. In a few hours the man will have turned and he too will be part of the undead army.

If we were talking an air borne virus however, we wouldn't have anyway of protecting ourselves at all. We would be totally defenseless and our population would rapidly begin to die out.

If the zombie apocalypse occurs we will most likely be in lack of preparation and probably fail to protect ourselves against the onslaught.

 

[Ph33nix]

The big problem I see is that no one is every ready to accept it for what it is. At least in the early days. The most crucial time for zombies.

People think there is just something wrong with the crazy guy trying to bite people. SO they treat him like a looney and bring him to a jail or some other center. Usually bites someone along the way. Due to incubation period typically it doesn't manifest right away. That person goes home, to work whatever. Then an outbreak starts there along with wherever patient zero is.

Another point in the zombies favor explosive are a lot less effective than people here seem to think. Zombies do not need all their bits and pieces to work. Unless your grenade removes the head or does damage to the brain you haven't done much except alert everyone to your presence. Fire, as well isn't a fast answer. Typically it will just leave you with flaming zombies until it does enough damage to incapacitate them.

Then there is the "cure" people who hope that everyone can be saved. People who crumble under pressure at a loved one being turned. Or when at the initial stages do not take the steps needed to prevent a full blown outbreak.

see Boston PD they have a zombie plan on the books they confirmed it on their twitter XD god i love my city

 

[Jowe]

A few points:
28 days later style zombies.
The chaos of the apocalypse would be HUGE, lots of military personnel would be taken up controlling crowds etc
Many military types would go home to protect and defend family, as with any/all logistics people
Sheer numbers.. 300 million potential zombies in the US alone, all it takes is one bite..
Could be airbourne? so say 1/100 people are immune, but every one else is almost instantly a zombie.
INCREDIBLY demoralising for the soldiers, shooting a clip of body shots at one, and still seeing it killing your friends in horrific ways, It would make anyone mutiny.

After all this, I still agree(mostly) that a well organised, well equiped military force would own as many as 100-1000 times as many zombies any day, but in reality they wont..

EDIT: to an above post^^
how many bullets will these 25mm guns be able to get their hands on? when they run out its just dead weight, especially since shooting that sort of gun would be incredibly tempting to massively over kill, and unnecessarily waste ammo, not a long term, or even mid term solution.

 

[SomeBritishDude]

This is why Shaun of the Dead is the most realist zombie movie. Assuming those guys where slow that shit would be over in a day.

 

[Toaster Hunter]

You have to remember, we understand zombies and generally know how to deal with them, like aiming for the head, etc. In universe, however, zombies are new to existence and therefore people are not adequately prepared to deal with them. If we see a semi-rotten individual that tries to bite people and can only be killed with a headshot, we would know exactly what we are dealing with. This forum has how many hundreds if not thousads of Zombie plans (at least five a week). For the people in the movie, show, video game, whatever, this has to be a new experience. The military isn't deployed until entire cites are overrun and make mistakes that we would consider amateurish.

TV Tropes calls this Genre Savvy. We are, they are not.

 

[10zack986]

I agree. Even if 3/4 of the U.S is infected, the military the the last 1/4 could just kill everything.

 

[supermariner]

the military always get overrun because if they dont you have no game

"argh! the zombies are attacking!"
"oh good here come the military"
"yay they killed them all, we're safe!"
"i love being alive!"

The End children