One of the thing that bugs me with the Zombie Apocalypse...

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BlueFishie

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I completey agree with you, OP. I enjoy zombie apocalypse scenarios as much as any other internet denizen, but the reasons you mentioned make it very unlikely it could actually occur. The arguments that gas/ammunition would run out or it "would be too late" by the time the military mobilizes are just wishful thinking, in my opinion. When Average Joe down the street is being killed, public outcry would demand mobilization, no matter how "ridiculous" the notion that the dead are eating people.

However, we're talking fiction here. Many zombie survival games would be rendered pretty moot if the military saved the day, as mentioned before in the thread.

I'm sure humanity as a whole has abundantly enough fuel and ammunition to deal with a zombie attack. It may be devastating, and many might die, but I wouldn't buy a world-wide apocalypse.
 

TPiddy

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There's definitely a mental and psychological affect to the situation, but real zombie apocalypse scenarios have more to do with examining the removal of social structure from the survivors than it does anything to do with the zombies themselves. Zombie apocalypse stories are simply an engine; a reason to have society crumble into a lord of the flies scenario. It's the human conflict that we want to see.
 

Judgement101

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Want to know what bugs me about Zombie Apocalypses? The amount of threads made about them. (Not this thread, thsi one is about a game) I hate the "The thing to you left is your weapon in a zombie asparagus" or "The last weapon in a video game is your weapon in a zombine applefield"
 

Tarkand

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harv3034 said:
First: AWSOME 40K Terminator pic.
Thank you, the model is mine and I painted it :)

As for the topic itself, lots of a good answer, don't have much time to reply since I'm on lunch break.

But just as I may be over-estimating the power of explosives against zombies (And I'm not sure I really am... even if the head is undamaged, a zombie who's lost limbs become practically trivial as a threat and would probably get trampled and damaged further (or even 'killed') by the rest of the Horde walking on it), I think a lot of people are underestimating the power of modern military weapons. It doesn't matter if you don't hit the head if all that is left are chunks of bloody goo...

Also thanks for the link (http://www.cracked.com/article_18683_7-scientific-reasons-zombie-outbreak-would-fail-quickly.html), very fitting :)
 

gellert1984

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Jowe said:
A few points:
28 days later style zombies.
The chaos of the apocalypse would be HUGE, lots of military personnel would be taken up controlling crowds etc
Many military types would go home to protect and defend family, as with any/all logistics people
Sheer numbers.. 300 million potential zombies in the US alone, all it takes is one bite..
Could be airbourne? so say 1/100 people are immune, but every one else is almost instantly a zombie.
INCREDIBLY demoralising for the soldiers, shooting a clip of body shots at one, and still seeing it killing your friends in horrific ways, It would make anyone mutiny.

After all this, I still agree(mostly) that a well organised, well equiped military force would own as many as 100-1000 times as many zombies any day, but in reality they wont..

EDIT: to an above post^^
how many bullets will these 25mm guns be able to get their hands on? when they run out its just dead weight, especially since shooting that sort of gun would be incredibly tempting to massively over kill, and unnecessarily waste ammo, not a long term, or even mid term solution.
It doesnt really matter how many bullets they fire eventually the barrels warp, even if you allow the barrels to cool the constant heating and cooling will effect the barrels integrity.
 

FFHAuthor

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It seems that all Zombie themed books, movies, games, TV shows, etc, exist in an alternate reality in which Zombie themed books, movies, games, TV shows, etc, have never existed.
 

Aiden_the-Joker1

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I always felt that the reason they would overrun the military is because for every person we lose they gain one. Three soldiers, one zombie, 3-1 he bites one now its equal 2-2. That's why I always think they would overrun the army. I know I am just being obvious here but really think about it a large city means many grouped together people. Say for example a skyscraper, one zombie enters the front door. Virtually no-one will get out of there. Football games, malls apartment blocks it could easily in my opinion spread very quickly. The military wouldn't be able to commission and send out tanks by the time they realise it is no ordinary disease. Finally there wouldn't be an even spread in all directions so it would be very hard to set up a quarantine zone.
 

Ghengis John

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Tarkand said:
I've played Dead Rising 2 recently, I'm currently watching the Walking Dead on AMC and I just read Yahtzee's extra punctuation, so I'm in a zombie mood :p.

Now to make things clear - I actually enjoy the zombie apocalypse theme. I'm not a hater. But there's something that always bugged me with the scenario...

Basically, I don't quite get how they could over run the military?
I believe somebody on Cracked.com summed it up like this: "Every time a zombie wishes to feed or reproduce, it must take on it's top predator. That does not seem like a fantastic strategy." And he's right. You or I might get over run by a sudden and surprising undead out break, perhaps even a town or city could get wiped out, but the chances against inevitable containment don't seem that good.

I guess one sure fire ticket is to have the walking plague preceded by a regular one, so that the human race's numbers are withered. If the same illness causes zombification then all the worse for the survivors. Alternately maybe multiple large outbreaks might strain response potential? Thoguh that's never the way it goes in the movies. Other than that I'd be hard pressed to buy their spreading over all the earth.
 

bubba145

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you have a solid idea based question.
1. the military is not trained to aim at the head anymore. to hard to hit besides snipers and they are trained to aim there as well.
2. bombs would do so little damage and kill very few. Bombs main kill factor is a concussion wave which would kill a few infected but unlikely kill them all. the blast wave would liquidfy a few brains but most would survive.
3. running them over would eventually clog the tanks treds or a bone would lodge in it stoping it.
4. Ammo is a major problem and with no resupply the unit would fail or turn.
5. the area of infection in a city is hard to control a infected could fall out of a window and bite a man in the rear and spread from their.
6. the stigma of killing a family member. it is always hard to think of killing family and a father would not kill his family unless the situation is highly desperate.
7. the area i know i said something about this but the terrain is the hard part. a standard frag bomb would do little to truly hinder a infection. especially in a closed area like a street shere the blast would be disrupted by the street and would funnel most of the blast up into the air.
8. Fire is the only good way to kill them. napalm like in 28 Weeks Later would kill them better then frag but a good shower would stop that.
9 Noise of the planes. that would attract the infected like crazy.
i'm gonna stop because this is long and it covers most problems in any series so far.
 

Wayneguard

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Tarkand said:
Now to make things clear - I actually enjoy the zombie apocalypse theme. I'm not a hater. But there's something that always bugged me with the scenario...

Basically, I don't quite get how they could over run the military?
In World War Z, the author says that a modern military is not equipped to fight a war against an enemy like the zombie horde. Their tactics, weaponry and everything else do not prepare them to fight against brainless corpses that don't feel pain and don't tire. It's a great book if you haven't read it.
 

Sneaky Paladin

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Because of how people initially would react. Say business man bob gets bit on his way home from work. He continues home a bit scared and says hello to his lovely wife and 3 kids. After a while they all go to bed where he goes into a coma and bites his wife after waking up. He then proceeds to bite his kids. Once his bite wakes them up they all run away if possible. They run away to say...a hospital where they suspiciously all go into comas while waiting. Wake up, bite people, leave presumably get shot. Then tomorrow the hospital brimming with zombies wakes up one by one to infect that city. Plus it will take a while to realize breaking the brain is how you kill them.
 

obscuredlimits

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There are several reasons zombies would have an advantage: 1, grenades kill in two fashions, at immediate range, they have a significant amount of concussive force, enough to break bone, and the shrapnel that they create is great for hitting the chest area and punching through vital areas. 2, headshots are in fact harder than they look. Try shooting a target at a firing range with a pistol. Not the easiest thing to do on a stationary target, now imagine a moving target. That is one of the reasons police don't generally go for headshots, and the reason they are trained to aim for center mass. So, police will not be properly trained from the get go. Military may have better luck, but once the zombies rise, they will expand quickly. Each bite will lead to a new zombie, and that zombie will lead to more. The military will not be equipped for this at first either, and will either adapt after a while or fall beneath the undead. Eventually, this will lead to one of a few scenarios: the military adapts and destroys the zombie threat, the undead defeat humanity with only few surviving (this leads to the end of civilization as we know it), or a kind of coexistence where the surviving humans manage to adapt where the military could not and build a new sort of civilization.
 

Therumancer

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I've only watched the first couple of episodes of "The Walking Dead" and have not read the comics. It seems to me that they are glossing over what caused the zombies intentionally, or how things fell apart. The attitude being that they are using the lack of knowlege of the characters involved to justify not building up any kind of inherant logic with the series.

That said, how easily people could get overrun depends on the details. If your dealing with a "patient zero" scenario where one infected guy stated it by biting people, who in turn have to bite more people, then it doesn't make much sense.

On the other hand if your dealing with some kind of contagion that was airborne, affected the majority of people just by them breathing. In this case the survivors would be people who were immune to the airborn version, but can be infected by the direct transfer of bodily fluids (ie saliva entering the blood stream), a more concentrated dose of the contagion overcoming their immunity or whatever.

If you say had like 80% or so of the population suddenly drop dead, and then get up and start killing/infecting the remaining 20% by total surprise, the whole situation changes. Those military bases are going to have 80% of their personell turn into zombies, and be inside the bases and so on.

Another possibility is the "slow burn" which is the idea that people don't zombify immediatly, and while a lot of people are infected, they don't start out as a majority like the above. Rather there is enough of them that they overflow the hospitals, and you start seeing other emergency facilities like fire departments, police stations, school gyms, and military bases being used to house the patients. When they finally start to turn, you have the "zombie surprise" starting right there inside those facilities, meaning that the emergency services are going to be the first things overrun in most places.

Then of course there is always the possibility that we're not dealing with a cause rooted in science fiction. Right now the popular concept of a zombie involves them being created by a virus, or perhaps a radioactive mutation. If they are created by magic, or some kind of curse, it might be entirely differant. You know, a scenario where this is the result after the bad ending of a horror movie, and some imprisoned evil escaping or whatever.

At any rate, if you assume the military command structure took a hit during the outbreak, logistics are going to be in rough shape. As Rommel could have told you, all the tanks in the world won't help if they run out of gas. The military relies on a lot of support personel to keep the guys in the field fighting.

There is also naive idiocy to consider here as well. If you assume when the military responds that there are uninfected people being run down and such, people getting out of tanks and the like to try and lend a hand is possible. What's more there are a lot of people who are going to be wary about carpet bombing and the like. By the time the guys in command get their heads around the scope of the problem, it might be too late. It's also possible that you could see the guys in charge (especially if left wingers) wringing their hands, waiting for a magical solution to arise, and then getting overrun because they won't pull
the trigger so to speak.

In a purely pragmatic sense, there is going to be a finite number of Zombies. The logical thing to do would be to write off survivors, aside from those that can be easily collected, and pretty much cut loose without any signifigant care about collateral damage. Not nice, but humanity wins assuming there was enough of a surviving infrastructure. On the other hand emotion does overcome logic in many cases where it probably shouldn't. Indeed the guy calling for this kind of action might be right, but typically would be presented as a bad guy in most dramas.

The point I'm getting at here is there are ways how the scenarios could wind up like what we see on TV and movies, and read in books. Generally speaking though there is usually little effort spent trying to justify it. Indeed it seems 90% of the time when they do try and explain what happened it makes absolutly no sense.

Take for example your typical "quarantined town" example, where the military response seems to be to put a couple of hummers or jeeps on the roads into and out of town. While many would call it evil, if I had that kind of knowlege, I wouldn't be quarantining the town, I'd wipe the whole bloody thing out to prevent the spread. A town full of innocents vs. humanity. When someone in a movie makes the point I am, they are usually portrayed as being the bad guy, on the other hand while nobody wants to be on the receiving end of that, looking at something like "The Walking Dead" pretty much demonstrates that there is no "good" solution, just the lesser of two evils.
 

Hollock

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Well the thing that bugs me about the topic of zombies is that people always have a plan when they talk about it and know theyll male it. The problem is that most people die right away and the thought never even crosses their minds that it woukd be them going out early.
 

Eclectic Dreck

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The short version is that they would not. Even in the worst zombie apocalypse scenario, while casualties would be high and whatnot you can't really expect them to just overrun the military. This is more or less why all such movies try and avoid the subject or hand wave it away. To actually examine how unarmed people with superior numbers but no ability to work as a cohesive unit would overcome the might of the combined arms of a modern industrial nation would be too difficult to explain. So you just say it happened and never mention it.

Hell, in the rare instances where it is mentioned, the military unit in question generally sits alone and isolated, presumably because they know they need to die for the plot to move forward.
 

PhunkyPhazon

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I might have been ninja'd, but this reminds me of a Cracked article [http://www.cracked.com/article_18683_7-scientific-reasons-zombie-outbreak-would-fail-quickly.html]. Even though the same website has talked about why zombies themselves could happen [http://www.cracked.com/article_15643_5-scientific-reasons-zombie-apocalypse-could-actually-happen.html], an actual apocalypse would probably be stopped within minutes. (And yes, I know the second article is titled "Why a zombie apocalypse could happen, but it really only talks about zombies themselves.]
 

Nunny

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By the time anyone finds out what is happening the numbers are already to high to handle.

I would say more but im going, cya.
 

blind_dead_mcjones

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Oct 16, 2010
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because you wouldn't have a story otherwise

funfact: many of the world governments actually have people think up plans of how to have the military deal with things like zombie apocalypses, alien invasions, robot wars, etc. mainly as an excercise in unique thinking to see how effective they would be at strategies and tactics, but they also hold onto those plans. just in case.