online gaming sexism stories

[Moonlight Butterfly]

snip

Asking someone you don't even know to see a picture of their tits or telling them that you masturbated to a picture of them isn't flirting it's not even close.

Would you go up to a woman in a bar and say that, of course you wouldn't, so why do they think women will respond to it online? It just seems to come from this idea that women are there for men and they are bitches for responding with mirth, anger or confusion when they are treated like online hookers.

We aren't online hookers, we are there to play the bloody game.

 

[Legion]

I have never seen or heard anything sexist online aimed at a female gamer, unless you count flirting as sexist. Sexist comments, sure, but not aimed at anybody in particular.

I have on the other hand, seen a lot of "White Knights" who see it as their duty to treat the girl like a flawless princess so that nobody can dare criticise her for anything that she does. She trash talks guys, and that's hilarious, but as soon as the guy trash talks back, the abuse starts.

I have no doubt that there are many nasty, misogynistic bastards, but there are so many cases where a guy saying something nasty to a girl is automatically assumed to be sexist, as opposed to just being a prick. Unless you see how they behave around male players, you cannot just assume that they are sexist if they treat a female player badly.

You don't need to put "White Knights" in quotation marks. Like "entitlement" that particular phrase has been absolutely run into the ground around these parts. The anti-anti-sexism lobby sees a White Knight around every corner.

I put it into quotation marks because it is not a phrase that I personally use, but that is what most people describe them as. Without the quotation marks it'd appear to be suggesting that it is how I'd describe them.

snip

Asking someone you don't even know to see a picture of their tits or telling them that you masturbated to a picture of them isn't flirting it's not even close.

Would you go up to a woman in a bar and say that, of course you wouldn't, so why do they think women will respond to it online? It just seems to come from this idea that women are there for men and they are bitches for responding with mirth, anger or confusion when they are treated like online hookers.

We aren't online hookers, we are there to play the bloody game.

Indeed.

There is a very strong difference between being friendly towards a girl online, and acting sleazy and perverted. Guys like that are not flirting with girls, they are harassing them.

 

[RobDaBank]

I don't really have any sexism stories what I do have is a full inbox and numerous friend requests everytime I log into ny girlfriends XBLA

 

[BloatedGuppy]

I put it into quotation marks because it is not a phrase that I personally use, but that is what most people describe them as. Without the quotation marks it'd appear to be suggesting that it is how I'd describe them.

Well, it's what some people describe them as, certainly. Intellectually lazy people, who keep an ad hominem on hand for any situation they feel calls for it. Like something? Fanboy. Dislike something? Hater. Took a woman's side in a debate? White Knight. It makes arguments so much simpler when you can just slap a label on someone that summarily dismisses anything they might have to say.

 

[Xan Krieger]

Was playing World of Tanks and someone said they were a female. Less than a minute passed before someone asked if she wanted to do it doggy style. The entire team basically condemned him at that point, think someone pushed his tank out of cover and he got rocked.

 

[Reyold]

Anyway, if you really want specific examples, there's this one website that specializes in exactly that. It's called FatUglyOrSlutty.com [http://fatuglyorslutty.com/]. Examples to keep you reading for days, along with pictures and everything. This would have to be my personal favourite [http://fatuglyorslutty.com/2012/05/28/a-cordial-approach/].

So I took a gander at that site you mentioned.

I'm pretty sure I've acquired permanent brain damage from the sheer stupidity emanating from the gamers shown on the site. What little faith I have in humanity almost died in there.

 

[Leonardo Huizar]

Im cool with any of the female gamers ive met, but it says something about guys who treat women like garbage. They obviously have no interest in them or any kind of woman.

 

[Pink Gregory]

I'm sort of wondering here, there's sexism, and then there's being an asshole in a gender-specific manner.

Is there a difference, however small?

 

[Legion]

I put it into quotation marks because it is not a phrase that I personally use, but that is what most people describe them as. Without the quotation marks it'd appear to be suggesting that it is how I'd describe them.

Well, it's what some people describe them as, certainly. Intellectually lazy people, who keep an ad hominem on hand for any situation they feel calls for it. Like something? Fanboy. Dislike something? Hater. Took a woman's side in a debate? White Knight. It makes arguments so much simpler when you can just slap a label on someone that summarily dismisses anything they might have to say.

That is very true, but it is also relevant to the point I was making about the assumption that behaviour is sexist.

I am a guy, and frequently got abuse from other people to the point that I only talk to people in private chat on Xbox Live. I didn't have to say anything bad, hell, I didn't even have to say anything to the people who were being abusive. I could be talking to a friend and still people would find a reason to be nasty.

So what are these guys who are abusive pricks for no reason? I'd just call them pricks and be done with it. Yet, when that kind of behaviour is done to a woman/girl, it apparently automatically becomes sexist. It is no longer a case of a pathetic person acting like a jerk, it becomes a matter of a male attacking a female. Completely ignoring the fact that the type of person who says nasty things to girls they have never met online are almost certainly nasty to pretty much anybody, regardless of gender or race.

The argument is often made that they are clearly sexist by the words they use, but that really does not prove anything. If I was told to "Get back in the kitchen" it wouldn't mean anything to me, because that phrase was not made to insult men. If a guy uses it against a woman it does not necessarily mean they did it because they genuinely believe a woman's place is in the kitchen. The chances are that they used it because they wanted to be an offensive prick, and therefore chose something they knew would offend that particular person. Yes the comment was a sexist one, but that is not the same thing as the person themselves being sexist.

A comedian who make a racist joke because they know it will offend people and gain a reaction is not necessarily a racist. They chose that particular joke because they wanted to maximise the impact the comment made.


When a guy insults another guy there tends to be two major themes used. Accusing them of being a virgin, or accusing them of being homosexual.

Why?

Because that is what is seen as being as a strong insult aimed at guys. It's what is most likely to gain the strongest reaction and is the most likely to offend them the most. The person who is doing it probably does not give a damn whether they are either, but that's the kind of thing that's going to anger them, so that's the insults that they use.

Of course that does not make it right, nor does it make it any less offensive, but context and intent are important in regards to how somebodies behaviour should be interpreted. When people automatically assume that these people are being nasty to girls because they are girls, as opposed to bastards being bastards, it creates an inaccurate idea that gaming is an inherently sexist place.

It isn't. It's just like all areas of the internet. Full of sad, lonely people who have nothing going for them so they need to make themselves feel better by being nasty to other people.

 

[AngloDoom]

When I was but a young teen, I was named 'Tiddles' because I was apparently like the ship's cat of the group - a little fluffy-haired mascot. I tried to dye my hair blue once, but it failed, yet I earned the nickname 'TheBlueKitty' on MSN when it was all the rage, and so variations of the theme became my username online.

People would assume I was female because of the username and, sure, I did receive lots of friend-requests in games and people were nice to me, and only a few acted differently when they found out I was male. Then again, I also received messages ranging from "I'll give you [such-and-such item] if you send me pics of your tits" to "what's wrong, too fat to find a boyfriend so trying to win all the fat nerds online?"

I rarely got worse than that, but once I told someone I was male and they refused to believe it and threatened to prove it by raping me, then implied I'd love it because I was a slut.

So far, the worst I've gotten online as AngloDoom is "Ha, we totally kicked your ass, noob." It makes a big difference.

 

[aguspal]

Anyway, if you really want specific examples, there's this one website that specializes in exactly that. It's called FatUglyOrSlutty.com [http://fatuglyorslutty.com/]. Examples to keep you reading for days, along with pictures and everything. This would have to be my personal favourite [http://fatuglyorslutty.com/2012/05/28/a-cordial-approach/].

It's clear you'd prefer to believe that it's a rare thing done by the occasional jackass, but best assured, this crap happens a great deal.

Well, this is depressing.

Christ.

No it is not depressing at all, it is just fucking bloddy HILARIOUS!!!

 

[BloatedGuppy]

Of course that does not make it right, nor does it make it any less offensive, but context and intent are important in regards to how somebodies behaviour should be interpreted. When people automatically assume that these people are being nasty to girls because they are girls, as opposed to bastards being bastards, it creates an inaccurate idea that gaming is an inherently sexist place.

I hear what you're saying, but someone's intentions are actually fairly irrelevant in these circumstances. We're not in a court of law. Whether someone shouting "Get in the kitchen" is sexist in their heart of hearts, they are still uttering a stock sexist phrase, and contributing to a hostile atmosphere for women. If call a gay person I hardly know a "******", it doesn't matter if I did it because I'm a homophobe or I did it for the lulz, the impact on that person is unchanged. I'm completely unconcerned if someone is an asshole because they're a sexist or if someone is an asshole because they're a troll. They're an asshole either way, and they're going to be judged by their actions, not their motivations. It's our actions that define us. If you're constantly bombarding and upsetting strangers with sexist nonsense because you think it's funny, congratulations...you're a sexist.

And it shouldn't need saying, but I'm using the general "you" there, not you specifically.

 

[Smeatza]

Oh god, the violins. There must be a chorus of them, keening softly for the mighty struggles of the socially insecure gamer.

You whine about generalizing nerds, and then proceed to generalize everyone else...from the posts at fatuglyorslutty, to the "self hating males" on the forum, to making comments like "all these people". This isn't just hypocrisy, it also shows a stunning lack of awareness and understanding of the other side of this issue. I don't have to "hate myself" to recognize that my frustrated sexuality is of significance to absolutely no one except for me, and it's certainly not the responsibility of utter strangers to satiate it.

If I spend a portion of my life socially inept, and as a result my fumbling or inappropriate advances are creeping out women, that's on me. Learning how to comport yourself in society is a personal responsibility. If nerds want to be desired, a good first step is behaving in ways that make them desirable. Howling about tits on XBOX Live is probably not a good first step.

I do not identify myself as one of the socially insecure so your aggression is misplaced.
You also don't seem to have read my post as I said nothing about generalsing in it whatsoever.
And you seem to be referring to people that use the internet to sexually harass others, which I was not referring to.
In fact the only thing you wrote that bears any relevance to what I wrote was "inappropriate advances" so I shall address that.

What makes an advance inappropriate? Surely being disrespectful and aggressive is inappropriate? Yes it is.
Surely being sexually explicit is inappropriate? Yes it is.
But is making an advance in a respectful and reasonable manner inappropriate if done across the web? I don't think so.

Asking someone you don't even know to see a picture of their tits or telling them that you masturbated to a picture of them isn't flirting it's not even close.

Would you go up to a woman in a bar and say that, of course you wouldn't, so why do they think women will respond to it online? It just seems to come from this idea that women are there for men and they are bitches for responding with mirth, anger or confusion when they are treated like online hookers.

We aren't online hookers, we are there to play the bloody game.

If you will re-read my post you will see I was referring to the "polite, respectful but socially insecure."
What you are referring to is sexual harassment, and there is of course, no defending that.


I will re-iterate, I am no defending those who harass others online. I am criticising the demonisation of the polite, respectful but socially insecure. Those who seek a mutual online relationship and get labeled as "creepy" for doing so.

 

[rbstewart7263]

This is good stuff guys. throughout say a day and throughout a month would you guys say this kind of thing happens?

 

[runic knight]

Well might as well wade into this cesspool again...

Ok, general thoughts on sexism online and in games is that yes it is there (as a mirror of real life, since people online are still real people, thus sexist assholes exist in both places), but I do not think half of what is called "sexist" is actually sexist. Much in the same way that I don't think someone calling another guy "gay" is always homophobic or someone an n-word is always racist, I don't think some instances of using derogatory language to women are sexist. For a simpler explanation, much of what I hear in that regard comes off as the same mentality that has people looking at physical features and mocking them. Calling someone a big-eared big nosed four eyes is a specific insult directed at a person and trying to use their identity against them. To that effect, while the people who do are certainly assholes, I can't call them or their actions as such racist, sexist or whatever. Not all mind you, as I said they do exist and I am sure plenty play games (hard to think they don't given around 70% population playing games now). But just all too often I hear people saying that someone being an asshole to a woman is sexist when they probably are an asshole universally.

Now, this does not mean people asking to see tits, sending pics of their dick or what not are a part of that above. That is sexual harassment, sort of a different topic itself. Not sure if that can be "sexism", though I don't see much in a way of it not being so most of the time, so not going to argue it isn't. But keep in mind it is not the male seeking female attention that is the problem here, it is the harassment and sexual nature that is. I suppose there is also other, deeper aspects to look at too about people who use their anonymity online to harass others like that. If rape studies are any indication, and the reason of "power" being dominant instead of the presumed "sex", I would be curious to know motivation behind those that try to force their attentions on others online. Whatever the case, just saying "sexism" is the cause just seems such a shallow view of things.

Now Smeatza raised a great point about how far too often people jump the gun and see any attempt to flirt or seek an online relationship as a form of sexist behavior when in actuality, such behavior in person would not be seen as such. Unwanted or uncomfortable, sure, but sexist.... going to have to go with no. I've been hit on in game by a female guildmate before. Was a bit uncomfortable and seemed weird, but sexist it was not. And no, I don't care if I am the rare exception, you can't label one behavior as sexist but flip it and suddenly it is not. That isn't how rationality works.


So, in conclusion to just wrap all this up from my take on things.
Using individual specific insults? Not nessesarily sexist.
Trying to flirt/seek a relationship? Not sexist.
Harassment? Asshole behavior, possibly sexist.

If you disagree, would love to go deeper on the topic. Jiust please make sure you demonstrate the ability to read and understand where I am coming from here and don't just try to strawman the position as poor Smeatza up there seems to have been.

 

[mgirl]

I used to play on xbox live a lot, and I never got a lot of trouble, apart from 2 occasions.

Both happened when I was playing Left 4 dead 2 versus.

The first occasion was an older guy with a deep voice who kept going on about how I was an ugly british chick who needed to shut the fuck up and get back in the kitchen, I just ignored the guy, kept on playing as normal, and the team eventually kicked him.

The second time was a kid with a very high pitched voice who kept screaming at everyone over the mic, and after repeated requests that he be quiet, someone on the team voted to kick him, and I agreed. At this point, he switched over to screaming directly at me, since I had spoken in the match and it was clear I was female, telling me I should suck his dick and so on. He was kicked from the game, and then started sending me voice messages, saying that I must have been raped by my dad since I'm such a *****, and other equally repulsive things. I was laughing about it to the other guys on the team, the kid kept sending disgusting messages and I ignored them, but someone on the team ended up sending a voice message to him, blowing into the mic, probably bursting the kids eardrums. No more messages after that, and the game carried on as usual.

That sort of thing was very rare, which is very reassuring.

 

[BloatedGuppy]

I do not identify myself as one of the socially insecure so your aggression is misplaced.

You also don't seem to have read my post as I said nothing about generalizing in it whatsoever.

Yes I read your post. I'm starting to wonder if you read your post.

But is making an advance in a respectful and reasonable manner inappropriate if done across the web? I don't think so.

There are a lot of places people do not go with the expectation or intention of being hit on, relentlessly. I imagine XBOX live is one of those places. Really, though, what's your stake in it? If a nerd asks a girl for a date in an offbeat setting, and said girl says "That was creepy", what damage has been done? A nerd got rejected and a girl got creeped out. I'm not really sure why this provoked a passionate jeremiad about horrible, horrible people and the suffering of nerds.

If you will re-read my post you will see I was referring to the "polite, respectful but socially insecure."

Buddy, YOU need to re-read your post.

....please don't adopt the witch hunting attitude of www.fatuglyorslutty.com

Anyone who feels the need to demonize polite, respectful, socially insecure nerds who can only pluck up the courage to ask out a girl online, are horrible horrible people who have much bigger problems than said insecure nerds.

I once went on this web site where there were all these people posting comments saying "all male gamers are misogynist." And accusing people with any kind of social insecurity of being "creepy" for trying to flirt online.

And every time the topic of sexism came up it was used as an excuse for mass man-hating, especially from the self hating males on the forum.

Bolded some of your generalizations/hyperbolic assertions for you.

I will re-iterate, I am no defending those who harass others online. I am criticising the demonisation of the polite, respectful but socially insecure. Those who seek a mutual online relationship and get labeled as "creepy" for doing so.

You could've probably chosen a less histrionic way of going about it if that was your aim.

 

[runic knight]

There are a lot of places people do not go with the expectation or intention of being hit on, relentlessly. I imagine XBOX live is one of those places. Really, though, what's your stake in it? If a nerd asks a girl for a date in an offbeat setting, and said girl says "That was creepy", what damage has been done? A nerd got rejected and a girl got creeped out. I'm not really sure why this provoked a passionate jeremiad about horrible, horrible people and the suffering of nerds.

Not gonna reply to all this, as it seemed more specifically directed at him and his arguments and stuff but...

If a nerd asks a girl for a date in an offbeat setting...what damage has been done?

seems to be the main point of what he was saying to begin with, along with wondering why, based off the topic of the thread, that gets tied to sexism.

Also, might want to tie down your preconceptions about internet relationship a little. You know, with data about how many start online nowadays and how common it is to meet people online and all that. Not all come from dating sites after all, and playing a game has been a centuries old method of learning about the character of a person. Mixing of the two seems, well, rather logical progression. Cause, you really kinda come off as a twat when you talk about people asking others out online. And that is without even going into social anxieties, physical image issues, simple geographical isolation and the plethora of other reasons that might affect why people would prefer to look to start relationships online rather then off.