Online Pass Required to Play as Arkham City's Catwoman

[rje5]

-snip-

Now rather than going into your arguments one by one, ill just stick with this.

You have the fundamental right to sell crap that you own.

If you truely believe this then you have no problem with the online passes. You know why?
Because they own the game!
You have not bought it.
And they can do whatever they want with it. They can rent it to you or throw it in a river. They can give it to people and sell it to others. Its theirs.

You do not have a right to buy it. They have a right to sell it.

Practise as you preach.

Yes, they could rent the game to you but they don't. They SELL it to you at FULL PRICE and then they want to claim you don't own it. I can go to a video store and rent the game for $1 a day or I can go to Wal Mart and BUY it for $60.

The difference between renting and owning is clear and you aren't renting video games for $60, you are buying them.

Doesn't matter they can still chose to cut it into tiny pieces and sell 90% to you and then rent 10% to you

You dont have a right to buy.

Consumers have the right to buy whatever is on the market. But I'm not going to get into the legalities of who has what right. It's wrong to market Catwoman, show her off at E3 and other demos, and the come out and say you have to pay extra unless you buy new. It's sleazy, I don't care, and most consumers don't care about the legalities behind it.

 

[TerribleAssassin]

Honestly who actually cares about being able to play as Catwoman anyway? Last time I checked the title it said "Batman: Arkham City"

Seconded, like Jim Sterling said and what the majority of players are thinking, if it's something that isn't vital to the main story and completely optional, it rewards players instead of penalizing them.

 

[TitsMcGee1804]

What happens if I rent it legitimately from LoveFilm?

Crap...this is how I play most of my console games...i never even thought of this

Before, I was indifferent, as i have never bought a used game...now I am wholly against this kind of thing

But what happens?
Does everyone who rents now have to pay for an additional service even after the copy of the game has been bought full price (probably at a slight discount due to bulk buying) but not sold on?

Its a great question and perhaps its one that rental companies need to address, key codes are becoming part of the industry and it could mean the value of renting a product over buying it changes, hence a change in the service they provide

In all honesty, the way that this industry treats its customers, i wouldnt be suprised if we get burned

pc gaming ftw!

 

[Epona]

-snip-

Now rather than going into your arguments one by one, ill just stick with this.

You have the fundamental right to sell crap that you own.

If you truely believe this then you have no problem with the online passes. You know why?
Because they own the game!
You have not bought it.
And they can do whatever they want with it. They can rent it to you or throw it in a river. They can give it to people and sell it to others. Its theirs.

You do not have a right to buy it. They have a right to sell it.

Practise as you preach.

Yes, they could rent the game to you but they don't. They SELL it to you at FULL PRICE and then they want to claim you don't own it. I can go to a video store and rent the game for $1 a day or I can go to Wal Mart and BUY it for $60.

The difference between renting and owning is clear and you aren't renting video games for $60, you are buying them.

Doesn't matter they can still chose to cut it into tiny pieces and sell 90% to you and then rent 10% to you

You dont have a right to buy.

Of course you have a right to buy as long as they are offering it for sale. They may be selling you 90% now and renting you the other 10% but you can still resell the 90%.

I just can't believe how many people have been fooled into believing they don't own what they bought. If you were told that you don't own your TV or your stove, would you believe that too? Further, if you really believe that you don't your games, why are you paying $60 for a rental when you can pay much less at a video rental store?

 

[Truly-A-Lie]

I'm at Uni, and my PS3 can't connect to PSN here. They've already said that Catwoman is 10% of the main story, so I have to miss parts of the plot because I can't connect to the internet? How is that fair? Even if I buy a new copy, I can't register my code. This sucks so hard, I shouldn't have to haul my console home by train just so I can play a game as it was intended to be played.

 

[rje5]

-snip-

Now rather than going into your arguments one by one, ill just stick with this.

You have the fundamental right to sell crap that you own.

If you truely believe this then you have no problem with the online passes. You know why?
Because they own the game!
You have not bought it.
And they can do whatever they want with it. They can rent it to you or throw it in a river. They can give it to people and sell it to others. Its theirs.

You do not have a right to buy it. They have a right to sell it.

Practise as you preach.

Yes, they could rent the game to you but they don't. They SELL it to you at FULL PRICE and then they want to claim you don't own it. I can go to a video store and rent the game for $1 a day or I can go to Wal Mart and BUY it for $60.

The difference between renting and owning is clear and you aren't renting video games for $60, you are buying them.

Doesn't matter they can still chose to cut it into tiny pieces and sell 90% to you and then rent 10% to you

You dont have a right to buy.

Of course you have a right to buy as long as they are offering it for sale. They may be selling you 90% now and renting you the other 10% but you can still resell the 90%.

I just can't believe how many people have been fooled into believing they don't own what they bought. If you were told that you don't own your TV or your stove, would you believe that too? Further, if you really believe that you don't your games, why are you paying $60 for a rental when you can pay much less at a video rental store?

Dude, you're wrong. You own the right to play the software on the disc, not the actual software. Rental's give you the right to play the software on the disc for a limited time, buying gives you the right to play the software for an unlimited time. The real issue is that the Catwomen content is on the disc, and they won't let you play that unless you buy new or pay extra. If you want to do that, fine. But don't market her like crazy, and release her content for what it is, DLC, and do it after launch. Don't include it on the disc.

 

[Epona]

The sad price

-snip-

Now rather than going into your arguments one by one, ill just stick with this.

You have the fundamental right to sell crap that you own.

If you truely believe this then you have no problem with the online passes. You know why?
Because they own the game!
You have not bought it.
And they can do whatever they want with it. They can rent it to you or throw it in a river. They can give it to people and sell it to others. Its theirs.

You do not have a right to buy it. They have a right to sell it.

Practise as you preach.

Yes, they could rent the game to you but they don't. They SELL it to you at FULL PRICE and then they want to claim you don't own it. I can go to a video store and rent the game for $1 a day or I can go to Wal Mart and BUY it for $60.

The difference between renting and owning is clear and you aren't renting video games for $60, you are buying them.

BUT they are selling you several pieces of plastic and paper for that $60, not a game, you are merely purchasing the medium, the container and a license to use the software.

Not that I like the above answer and I am pissed about this stupid move, but that's the correct answer. YOU do not OWN the game.

You own that copy of the game and can do with it as you see fit, including selling it someone else. Seriously, if you believe that people don't own their games, then how is Gamestop still in business? How could they legally buy games from people who don't really own them?

You own your games and that is why you can resell them, don't let anyone tell you otherwise.

No as much as I hate to say this he's right. You don't own the actual game. You own the disc and the right the play what's on it. The bullshit part comes in where they put something on the disc, and refuse to let you use it until you pay more money. That's what people are upset about, me included.

Owning the disc and the right to play it, resell it, destroy it, etc... is all that matters. It's the same with everything you own. You own your car and you can drive it, resell it and even destroy it (safely) and because you can do those things, it is considered to be your property.

What is happening is that publishers are taking pieces of the game away. 10% here and 10% there until one day, you have a $60 rental and it all starts with convincing people that they NEVER really owned their games (so they don't feel like they are losing anything).

 

[Epona]

-snip-

Now rather than going into your arguments one by one, ill just stick with this.

You have the fundamental right to sell crap that you own.

If you truely believe this then you have no problem with the online passes. You know why?
Because they own the game!
You have not bought it.
And they can do whatever they want with it. They can rent it to you or throw it in a river. They can give it to people and sell it to others. Its theirs.

You do not have a right to buy it. They have a right to sell it.

Practise as you preach.

Yes, they could rent the game to you but they don't. They SELL it to you at FULL PRICE and then they want to claim you don't own it. I can go to a video store and rent the game for $1 a day or I can go to Wal Mart and BUY it for $60.

The difference between renting and owning is clear and you aren't renting video games for $60, you are buying them.

Doesn't matter they can still chose to cut it into tiny pieces and sell 90% to you and then rent 10% to you

You dont have a right to buy.

Of course you have a right to buy as long as they are offering it for sale. They may be selling you 90% now and renting you the other 10% but you can still resell the 90%.

I just can't believe how many people have been fooled into believing they don't own what they bought. If you were told that you don't own your TV or your stove, would you believe that too? Further, if you really believe that you don't your games, why are you paying $60 for a rental when you can pay much less at a video rental store?

Dude, you're wrong. You own the right to play the software on the disc, not the actual software. Rental's give you the right to play the software on the disc for a limited time, buying gives you the right to play the software for an unlimited time. The real issue is that the Catwomen content is on the disc, and they won't let you play that unless you buy new or pay extra. If you want to do that, fine. But don't market her like crazy, and release her content for what it is, DLC, and do it after launch. Don't include it on the disc.

Let's look at your statement:

Rental's give you the right to play the software on the disc for a limited time,

If you rent a car you have the right to drive the car for a limited time, yes?

buying gives you the right to play the software for an unlimited time.

If you buy a car you gain the right to drive the car for an unlimited time, yes?

Why then do I own my car but not my games?

 

[rje5]

The sad price

-snip-

Now rather than going into your arguments one by one, ill just stick with this.

You have the fundamental right to sell crap that you own.

If you truely believe this then you have no problem with the online passes. You know why?
Because they own the game!
You have not bought it.
And they can do whatever they want with it. They can rent it to you or throw it in a river. They can give it to people and sell it to others. Its theirs.

You do not have a right to buy it. They have a right to sell it.

Practise as you preach.

Yes, they could rent the game to you but they don't. They SELL it to you at FULL PRICE and then they want to claim you don't own it. I can go to a video store and rent the game for $1 a day or I can go to Wal Mart and BUY it for $60.

The difference between renting and owning is clear and you aren't renting video games for $60, you are buying them.

BUT they are selling you several pieces of plastic and paper for that $60, not a game, you are merely purchasing the medium, the container and a license to use the software.

Not that I like the above answer and I am pissed about this stupid move, but that's the correct answer. YOU do not OWN the game.

You own that copy of the game and can do with it as you see fit, including selling it someone else. Seriously, if you believe that people don't own their games, then how is Gamestop still in business? How could they legally buy games from people who don't really own them?

You own your games and that is why you can resell them, don't let anyone tell you otherwise.

No as much as I hate to say this he's right. You don't own the actual game. You own the disc and the right the play what's on it. The bullshit part comes in where they put something on the disc, and refuse to let you use it until you pay more money. That's what people are upset about, me included.

Owning the disc and the right to play it, resell it, destroy it, etc... is all that matters. It's the same with everything you own. You own your car and you can drive it, resell it and even destroy it (safely) and because you can do those things, it is considered to be your property.

What is happening is that publishers are taking pieces of the game away. 10% here and 10% there until one day, you have a $60 rental and it all starts with convincing people that they NEVER really owned their games (so they don't feel like they are losing anything).

First off, I agree with your basic argument. But I have Windows 7 on my computer when I bought my computer. That doesn't mean I own Windows 7. It means I own the right to use this copy of it. And people never really own the software that is their games. They own the right to play them, which I believe is what you're trying to say. And then they can sell that right to play that game to someone else. What these companies are doing is trying to sell small parts of the game to those second hand people as well. That isn't the issue. The issue is that they're trying to sell them something ALREADY ON THE DISC. What they are doing is selling you the right to play what's on the disc, except this one part, which is crap. Either don't put it on the disc, or don't restrict it.

 

[rje5]

-snip-

Now rather than going into your arguments one by one, ill just stick with this.

You have the fundamental right to sell crap that you own.

If you truely believe this then you have no problem with the online passes. You know why?
Because they own the game!
You have not bought it.
And they can do whatever they want with it. They can rent it to you or throw it in a river. They can give it to people and sell it to others. Its theirs.

You do not have a right to buy it. They have a right to sell it.

Practise as you preach.

Yes, they could rent the game to you but they don't. They SELL it to you at FULL PRICE and then they want to claim you don't own it. I can go to a video store and rent the game for $1 a day or I can go to Wal Mart and BUY it for $60.

The difference between renting and owning is clear and you aren't renting video games for $60, you are buying them.

Doesn't matter they can still chose to cut it into tiny pieces and sell 90% to you and then rent 10% to you

You dont have a right to buy.

Of course you have a right to buy as long as they are offering it for sale. They may be selling you 90% now and renting you the other 10% but you can still resell the 90%.

I just can't believe how many people have been fooled into believing they don't own what they bought. If you were told that you don't own your TV or your stove, would you believe that too? Further, if you really believe that you don't your games, why are you paying $60 for a rental when you can pay much less at a video rental store?

Dude, you're wrong. You own the right to play the software on the disc, not the actual software. Rental's give you the right to play the software on the disc for a limited time, buying gives you the right to play the software for an unlimited time. The real issue is that the Catwomen content is on the disc, and they won't let you play that unless you buy new or pay extra. If you want to do that, fine. But don't market her like crazy, and release her content for what it is, DLC, and do it after launch. Don't include it on the disc.

Let's look at your statement:

Rental's give you the right to play the software on the disc for a limited time,

If you rent a car you have the right to drive the car for a limited time, yes?

buying gives you the right to play the software for an unlimited time.

If you buy a car you gain the right to drive the car for an unlimited time, yes?

Why then do I own my car but not my games?

Because cars aren't software. Different laws dude. No one owns software. they own the right to use it. You're arguing semantics.

 

[Epona]

-snip-

Now rather than going into your arguments one by one, ill just stick with this.

You have the fundamental right to sell crap that you own.

If you truely believe this then you have no problem with the online passes. You know why?
Because they own the game!
You have not bought it.
And they can do whatever they want with it. They can rent it to you or throw it in a river. They can give it to people and sell it to others. Its theirs.

You do not have a right to buy it. They have a right to sell it.

Practise as you preach.

Yes, they could rent the game to you but they don't. They SELL it to you at FULL PRICE and then they want to claim you don't own it. I can go to a video store and rent the game for $1 a day or I can go to Wal Mart and BUY it for $60.

The difference between renting and owning is clear and you aren't renting video games for $60, you are buying them.

Doesn't matter they can still chose to cut it into tiny pieces and sell 90% to you and then rent 10% to you

You dont have a right to buy.

Of course you have a right to buy as long as they are offering it for sale. They may be selling you 90% now and renting you the other 10% but you can still resell the 90%.

I just can't believe how many people have been fooled into believing they don't own what they bought. If you were told that you don't own your TV or your stove, would you believe that too? Further, if you really believe that you don't your games, why are you paying $60 for a rental when you can pay much less at a video rental store?

Dude, you're wrong. You own the right to play the software on the disc, not the actual software. Rental's give you the right to play the software on the disc for a limited time, buying gives you the right to play the software for an unlimited time. The real issue is that the Catwomen content is on the disc, and they won't let you play that unless you buy new or pay extra. If you want to do that, fine. But don't market her like crazy, and release her content for what it is, DLC, and do it after launch. Don't include it on the disc.

Let's look at your statement:

Rental's give you the right to play the software on the disc for a limited time,

If you rent a car you have the right to drive the car for a limited time, yes?

buying gives you the right to play the software for an unlimited time.

If you buy a car you gain the right to drive the car for an unlimited time, yes?

Why then do I own my car but not my games?

Because cars aren't software. Different laws dude. No one owns software. they own the right to use it. You're arguing semantics.

Oh yes, the "software is special" argument.

Think of it like this: the software is like a patent. When you buy a car or a TV you own that item, not the patent. When you buy software you own that copy of the software, not the actual code.

In both cases though you own what you bought and can resell it. So long as you can resell it or legally destroy it (ie, you can't legally destroy that which you do not own), you own it.

The argument that you don't own your games is really just psychology to convince you that when they make portions of a game only rentable, you are more likely to accept it. You see that psychology at work everytime someone reasons that things like this don't matter since you don't really own the game anyway.

Whatever though, believe what you want because sooner or later you really won't own your games as the game industry moves into activation codes before you can even start a game, just like PC.

 

[Kayevcee]

I was swithering about buying this game, since I enjoyed the spectacle of Arkham Asylum but found the gameplay rather dull. With this news I think I'll skip it, just on principle. While developers are within their legal rights to sell 90-95% of a game and rent the remaining 5% on a per-customer basis, while they still insist on charging full price for the bit they put in shops I will be taking my limited business elsewhere.

-Nick

 

[rje5]

-snip-

Now rather than going into your arguments one by one, ill just stick with this.

You have the fundamental right to sell crap that you own.

If you truely believe this then you have no problem with the online passes. You know why?
Because they own the game!
You have not bought it.
And they can do whatever they want with it. They can rent it to you or throw it in a river. They can give it to people and sell it to others. Its theirs.

You do not have a right to buy it. They have a right to sell it.

Practise as you preach.

Yes, they could rent the game to you but they don't. They SELL it to you at FULL PRICE and then they want to claim you don't own it. I can go to a video store and rent the game for $1 a day or I can go to Wal Mart and BUY it for $60.

The difference between renting and owning is clear and you aren't renting video games for $60, you are buying them.

Doesn't matter they can still chose to cut it into tiny pieces and sell 90% to you and then rent 10% to you

You dont have a right to buy.

Of course you have a right to buy as long as they are offering it for sale. They may be selling you 90% now and renting you the other 10% but you can still resell the 90%.

I just can't believe how many people have been fooled into believing they don't own what they bought. If you were told that you don't own your TV or your stove, would you believe that too? Further, if you really believe that you don't your games, why are you paying $60 for a rental when you can pay much less at a video rental store?

Dude, you're wrong. You own the right to play the software on the disc, not the actual software. Rental's give you the right to play the software on the disc for a limited time, buying gives you the right to play the software for an unlimited time. The real issue is that the Catwomen content is on the disc, and they won't let you play that unless you buy new or pay extra. If you want to do that, fine. But don't market her like crazy, and release her content for what it is, DLC, and do it after launch. Don't include it on the disc.

Let's look at your statement:

Rental's give you the right to play the software on the disc for a limited time,

If you rent a car you have the right to drive the car for a limited time, yes?

buying gives you the right to play the software for an unlimited time.

If you buy a car you gain the right to drive the car for an unlimited time, yes?

Why then do I own my car but not my games?

Because cars aren't software. Different laws dude. No one owns software. they own the right to use it. You're arguing semantics.

Oh yes, the "software is special" argument.

Think of it like this: the software is like a patent. When you buy a car or a TV you own that item, not the patent. When you buy software you own that copy of the software, not the actual code.

In both cases though you own what you bought and can resell it. So long as you can resell it or legally destroy it (ie, you can't legally destroy that which you do not own), you own it.

The argument that you don't own your games is really just psychology to convince you that when they make portions of a game only rentable, you are more likely to accept it. You see that psychology at work everytime someone reasons that things like this don't matter since you don't really own the game anyway.

Whatever though, believe what you want because sooner or later you really won't own your games as the game industry moves into activation codes before you can even start a game, just like PC.

I don't get you. We're saying the same thing. I don't know why you're getting so hung up on the word "own". I am a computer science major. I do this for a living. I write and sell software. We, and everyone else, sells the right to use our software. When people buy our software, they are buying the right to use it, they're not buying the actual software. And software is not a patent. Cars and TV's are PHYSICAL OBJECTS, software is not, not legally anyway.

Lets use an example. You buy a game. You've just bought the right to play that game. If you want to sell it, fine. You sell the right to play that game to someone else. No one at Rocksteady or Warner Bros. can come to your house and take that copy of the game. You own the right to play it. You, however, do not own the actual game. The code that makes Batman run, jump, and kick ass, that belongs to Rocksteady and Warner Bros. But you don't want the code, you want to play as Batman. That's what you're buying and they're selling. You're getting hung up on the word "own" way too much.

 

[Spider RedNight]

Oh, heck. It's got Batman and it's got Riddler. Catwoman has nice gameplay, but it wasn't why I wanted to buy the game. This is one of the few that I pre-ordered mostly just to have it the day it came out.

Otherwise, I'm rather used to not having DLC's, so this doesn't really affect me. Catwoman or no Catwoman, I'll still love the game... most likely.

 

[rje5]

-snip-

Now rather than going into your arguments one by one, ill just stick with this.

You have the fundamental right to sell crap that you own.

If you truely believe this then you have no problem with the online passes. You know why?
Because they own the game!
You have not bought it.
And they can do whatever they want with it. They can rent it to you or throw it in a river. They can give it to people and sell it to others. Its theirs.

You do not have a right to buy it. They have a right to sell it.

Practise as you preach.

Yes, they could rent the game to you but they don't. They SELL it to you at FULL PRICE and then they want to claim you don't own it. I can go to a video store and rent the game for $1 a day or I can go to Wal Mart and BUY it for $60.

The difference between renting and owning is clear and you aren't renting video games for $60, you are buying them.

Doesn't matter they can still chose to cut it into tiny pieces and sell 90% to you and then rent 10% to you

You dont have a right to buy.

Of course you have a right to buy as long as they are offering it for sale. They may be selling you 90% now and renting you the other 10% but you can still resell the 90%.

I just can't believe how many people have been fooled into believing they don't own what they bought. If you were told that you don't own your TV or your stove, would you believe that too? Further, if you really believe that you don't your games, why are you paying $60 for a rental when you can pay much less at a video rental store?

ANd what I cant understand is that people dont get when you buy a game with an unlock, you buy 90% of the game and a ticket for the 10%. They dont own the last 10%. Therefore cannot ***** about being unable to sell it.

I'm not sure people are pissed about not being able to sell the Catwoman parts. Typically when you buy a game you buy the right to play what's on the disc. The Catwoman content is on the disc, and you cannot play it if you buy used. Online passes are evil, but all they really do is allow you to play their game on their servers, they don't lock content on the disc. In the end, it's all evil, it's all rubbish, and it's all just a way to make more money.

 

[Epona]

-snip-

Now rather than going into your arguments one by one, ill just stick with this.

You have the fundamental right to sell crap that you own.

If you truely believe this then you have no problem with the online passes. You know why?
Because they own the game!
You have not bought it.
And they can do whatever they want with it. They can rent it to you or throw it in a river. They can give it to people and sell it to others. Its theirs.

You do not have a right to buy it. They have a right to sell it.

Practise as you preach.

Yes, they could rent the game to you but they don't. They SELL it to you at FULL PRICE and then they want to claim you don't own it. I can go to a video store and rent the game for $1 a day or I can go to Wal Mart and BUY it for $60.

The difference between renting and owning is clear and you aren't renting video games for $60, you are buying them.

Doesn't matter they can still chose to cut it into tiny pieces and sell 90% to you and then rent 10% to you

You dont have a right to buy.

Of course you have a right to buy as long as they are offering it for sale. They may be selling you 90% now and renting you the other 10% but you can still resell the 90%.

I just can't believe how many people have been fooled into believing they don't own what they bought. If you were told that you don't own your TV or your stove, would you believe that too? Further, if you really believe that you don't your games, why are you paying $60 for a rental when you can pay much less at a video rental store?

Dude, you're wrong. You own the right to play the software on the disc, not the actual software. Rental's give you the right to play the software on the disc for a limited time, buying gives you the right to play the software for an unlimited time. The real issue is that the Catwomen content is on the disc, and they won't let you play that unless you buy new or pay extra. If you want to do that, fine. But don't market her like crazy, and release her content for what it is, DLC, and do it after launch. Don't include it on the disc.

Let's look at your statement:

Rental's give you the right to play the software on the disc for a limited time,

If you rent a car you have the right to drive the car for a limited time, yes?

buying gives you the right to play the software for an unlimited time.

If you buy a car you gain the right to drive the car for an unlimited time, yes?

Why then do I own my car but not my games?

Because cars aren't software. Different laws dude. No one owns software. they own the right to use it. You're arguing semantics.

Oh yes, the "software is special" argument.

Think of it like this: the software is like a patent. When you buy a car or a TV you own that item, not the patent. When you buy software you own that copy of the software, not the actual code.

In both cases though you own what you bought and can resell it. So long as you can resell it or legally destroy it (ie, you can't legally destroy that which you do not own), you own it.

The argument that you don't own your games is really just psychology to convince you that when they make portions of a game only rentable, you are more likely to accept it. You see that psychology at work everytime someone reasons that things like this don't matter since you don't really own the game anyway.

Whatever though, believe what you want because sooner or later you really won't own your games as the game industry moves into activation codes before you can even start a game, just like PC.

I don't get you. We're saying the same thing. I don't know why you're getting so hung up on the word "own". I am a computer science major. I do this for a living. I write and sell software. We, and everyone else, sells the right to use our software. When people buy our software, they are buying the right to use it, they're not buying the actual software. And software is not a patent. Cars and TV's are PHYSICAL OBJECTS, software is not, not legally anyway.

Lets use an example. You buy a game. You've just bought the right to play that game. If you want to sell it, fine. You sell the right to play that game to someone else. No one at Rocksteady or Warner Bros. can come to your house and take that copy of the game. You own the right to play it. You, however, do not own the actual game. The code that makes Batman run, jump, and kick ass, that belongs to Rocksteady and Warner Bros. But you don't want the code, you want to play as Batman. That's what you're buying and they're selling. You're getting hung up on the word "own" way too much.

The word "own" is important and if it isn't, why is the game industry so hung up on telling us we don't "own" our games?

 

[Zeekar]

I'm buying the game anyway, so how much I care <= 0.

 

[rje5]

-snip-

Now rather than going into your arguments one by one, ill just stick with this.

You have the fundamental right to sell crap that you own.

If you truely believe this then you have no problem with the online passes. You know why?
Because they own the game!
You have not bought it.
And they can do whatever they want with it. They can rent it to you or throw it in a river. They can give it to people and sell it to others. Its theirs.

You do not have a right to buy it. They have a right to sell it.

Practise as you preach.

Yes, they could rent the game to you but they don't. They SELL it to you at FULL PRICE and then they want to claim you don't own it. I can go to a video store and rent the game for $1 a day or I can go to Wal Mart and BUY it for $60.

The difference between renting and owning is clear and you aren't renting video games for $60, you are buying them.

Doesn't matter they can still chose to cut it into tiny pieces and sell 90% to you and then rent 10% to you

You dont have a right to buy.

Of course you have a right to buy as long as they are offering it for sale. They may be selling you 90% now and renting you the other 10% but you can still resell the 90%.

I just can't believe how many people have been fooled into believing they don't own what they bought. If you were told that you don't own your TV or your stove, would you believe that too? Further, if you really believe that you don't your games, why are you paying $60 for a rental when you can pay much less at a video rental store?

Dude, you're wrong. You own the right to play the software on the disc, not the actual software. Rental's give you the right to play the software on the disc for a limited time, buying gives you the right to play the software for an unlimited time. The real issue is that the Catwomen content is on the disc, and they won't let you play that unless you buy new or pay extra. If you want to do that, fine. But don't market her like crazy, and release her content for what it is, DLC, and do it after launch. Don't include it on the disc.

Let's look at your statement:

Rental's give you the right to play the software on the disc for a limited time,

If you rent a car you have the right to drive the car for a limited time, yes?

buying gives you the right to play the software for an unlimited time.

If you buy a car you gain the right to drive the car for an unlimited time, yes?

Why then do I own my car but not my games?

Because cars aren't software. Different laws dude. No one owns software. they own the right to use it. You're arguing semantics.

Oh yes, the "software is special" argument.

Think of it like this: the software is like a patent. When you buy a car or a TV you own that item, not the patent. When you buy software you own that copy of the software, not the actual code.

In both cases though you own what you bought and can resell it. So long as you can resell it or legally destroy it (ie, you can't legally destroy that which you do not own), you own it.

The argument that you don't own your games is really just psychology to convince you that when they make portions of a game only rentable, you are more likely to accept it. You see that psychology at work everytime someone reasons that things like this don't matter since you don't really own the game anyway.

Whatever though, believe what you want because sooner or later you really won't own your games as the game industry moves into activation codes before you can even start a game, just like PC.

I don't get you. We're saying the same thing. I don't know why you're getting so hung up on the word "own". I am a computer science major. I do this for a living. I write and sell software. We, and everyone else, sells the right to use our software. When people buy our software, they are buying the right to use it, they're not buying the actual software. And software is not a patent. Cars and TV's are PHYSICAL OBJECTS, software is not, not legally anyway.

Lets use an example. You buy a game. You've just bought the right to play that game. If you want to sell it, fine. You sell the right to play that game to someone else. No one at Rocksteady or Warner Bros. can come to your house and take that copy of the game. You own the right to play it. You, however, do not own the actual game. The code that makes Batman run, jump, and kick ass, that belongs to Rocksteady and Warner Bros. But you don't want the code, you want to play as Batman. That's what you're buying and they're selling. You're getting hung up on the word "own" way too much.

The word "own" is important and if it isn't, why is the game industry so hung up on telling us we don't "own" our games?

BECAUSE YOU DON'T FUCKING OWN THE GAME. YOU OWN THE RIGHT TO PLAY IT. READ. LEARN. THEN TALK. Jesus fucking Christ dude....When you do buy a game you do own something, it's just not what you thought. That's nobody's fault but your own. If I buy a Honda and expect to get a Porsche that's my own dumb fault. Learn what you're buying.