Online Passes Pay For Dedicated Servers, Says Homefront Dev

[Doclector]

Top ten dollar is a good idea, it runs more like a reward scheme than a scheme punishing those who don't get something new. But this and dead space 2's online pass disturbs me. It points towards a somewhat darker future, where holding off on the purchase of a game can run the risk of half of said game being missing when you get it. Of course, you can pay for an online pass from the marketplace, but considering after a while, I'd say the average game comes down to about twenty pounds (british price) pre-owned. Plus a ten-pound online pass, that's thirty. After an even longer time, a game comes down to around ten pounds, but still, if you're looking to get a game shortly after release for less, and you can't find a discounted new copy, your full game price comes to thirty pounds, only ten pounds less than avergage new release games anyway.

Long story short (little late maybe?) giving people who buy a game new bonuses is fine by me, but completely removing such a major part of the game as the entire multiplayer seems overzealous to me.

 

[Justanothergamer300]

Hope that in the next generation systems we can pay for our own Servers on Consoles

Until then I can play ball with paying hell I pay 60 bucks just to get access to online play on Xbox 360

 

[C95J]

I fully support online passes, if you want all the features of the game then you pay full price, and at least give a bit of that money to the publishers. It isn't fair on them.

 

[Richard Allen]

Why should they get paid twice for the same game? Car Companies dont make money when a preowned dealer sells a used car.

Car company also don't pay for oil for your car.

Actually if you buy a new car with a warranty (which is pretty hard not to do these days) it will include maintnence, including your oil. Not only that but the warranty is transferable when you want to sell the car.

It's quite dis-hartning to see people blindly follow companies so they get to double bill. No where else would you find people arguing that publishers should get a double cut because "they can't run the servers". It's marketing bs at it's best. Maybe they should of thought about that when they took away to rent/run your own servers. Oh right, that doesn't work at all I mean I was never able to connect to a CS server on my 56k I mean what will all of us do now we all only have (and this is very generous) 2mb! I guess we need the publishers to run those servers for us because that never worked in the past.
/end rant

Some should try to think critically about these things and vote with your wallet when buying this shit.

http://comedians.jokes.com/jim-gaffigan/videos/jim-gaffigan---bottled-water/

 

[Danpascooch]

Considering preowned just swaps one player for another, they are still getting a full $60 per online player.

This is bullshit. If you need extra recompense, what is that initial $60? A fucking gift!?

Think you're missing his point. $60/player is not going to pay for dedicated servers forever.

But $10 is?

The way you said that made it sound like only a subscription would work, which would actually make sense, even if it would be annoying.

But you have to remember, that we're talking about $10 flat fee here, not a subscription.

If they want to charge more for the game, they should grow a pair and charge more for the game, this backhanded crap is bullshit.

Still misunderstanding him. Most $60 purchases will happen during the launch period. Ignoring the fact that the publisher won't see at least a quarter of that money, it still presents a problem of how to sustain the dedicated servers over the long term. Their answer: getting a more consistent revenue stream by charging used customers for unrestricted access. Charging $70 at launch won't help.

Why does the cash flow have to be more consistent? As long as they are getting the same amount of cash all they need to do is budget and conserve it properly, we shouldn't have to pay for online passes because they piss away the extra money and need a constant stream of it instead of one big chunk because they can't store some of that away for long term server payments.

Games are sold used, deal with it, make do with what you have because every other industry (movies, books, ect.) does, and you don't get special treatment.

If you need more money, make a better game so it sells more, or charge more, don't pull nickel and dime shit like this.

 

[CrystalShadow]

How can a majority of people buy their game pre-owned, that makes no sense.

It's probably never going to be a concern for me, the places i know of that sell used games sell it for about 30 dkk (about 5-4 dollars) less than the new one, and its still about 20-30% more than a brand spanking new game purchased online, even after the delivery fee (if there even is one).

only way I can see this is if 1 game disk goes through 3 people. 1 new 2 used sales

Heh. Some games seem to get as bad as 1 new sale, 20 re-sales of the same disk.
Admittedly though, this suggests a game that's either bad (but not bad enough for people to stop trying to get it), or one with very little replay value (so once you've played it for a little while, you move on).

Unfortunately, the argument about revenue rings a little hollow because pre-owned sales don't increase the number of players, they just swap one player - who likely paid full price for the game - out for another.

I'd have to say this isn't very accurate, while yes one player does stop playing and a new one starts, the main servers don't know that player 1 has left and his information is still stored and on their servers, while player 2 comes along and ads another player file adding a little more pressure on the server, while yeah a single file really isn't much of a problem it would quickly add up.

You know, I always did wonder what the big deal about data storage on a server was... After all, hard drives used at home aren't exactly expensive.
But... clearly, reliability cost a lot in a server;

I've been looking into getting a server of my own for various purposes, and one of the companies had both virtual and dedicated servers, but you had some flexibility in choosing the specs.

Virtual servers are cheaper because you don't have a computer all to yourself; So far, so straight-forward.

But then came a look at the way differing configurations altered what they were charging for a server...

Bandwidth wasn't an option, their systems all had unlimited monthly bandwidth provisions at 100 megabits/second per server. (since it's a server, that's probably symmetrical bandwidth too. At home, chances are your download speeds are anything from 10-20 times your upload speeds)

So... What about needing more processing power on your server?
If you're running a game, you might need the extra power to cope with needing the server doing things like physics calculations.

Well, the cost difference between the fastest and slowest servers was minimal.
Ram?
More expensive than CPU upgrades; But the cost difference in going from say, 1 GB to 16 is maybe doubling the cost.

So... What about permanent storage?


Turns out, going from 80 GB to 2 terrabytes of storage increases the cost more than 5 fold...
So, much to my surprise, the biggest expense in having a server is it's storage capacity...

 

[Mysnomer]

Votypka makes an interesting point, and to a certain extent it's actually quite hard to argue with him. Whether you support the idea of online passes or not, Kaos and THQ are providing a service by running dedicated servers. Unfortunately, the argument about revenue rings a little hollow because pre-owned sales don't increase the number of players, they just swap one player - who likely paid full price for the game - out for another. The idea that it's the principle that's important might have more legs, but Votypka will probably have a hard time convincing people to agree with him.

Thank you for pointing this out. I was getting tired of one-sided coverage on Ten-dollar-esque programs, with lip-service to their downsides or errors in logic. Now, I won't say I'm adamantly opposed to this, so long as the cost is reasonable, and the charge only applies when the money is going to a service that requires upkeep. For instance, if a THQ game came out that used MW2 p2p matchmaking, then I would be opposed to them charging pre-owned buyers a fee.

My problem is that using a plan like this sort of depends on used game sales being high to keep a flow of income to support their servers. But that seems like a mess of bad logic. Like, you expect your game to keep being resold, but isn't the object to make a game that people want to keep playing? But if that's not the case, and they don't need the continuous income, then why are you charging the fee in the first place? Bandwagon, much?

Either way, I've got a negative bias towards programs like this, but I might tolerate them, if the money is actually being used for some useful upkeep, and not to pay for the entitlement of videogame companies.

 

[DSK-]

Why not get players to simply buy their own dedicated servers like many games have done? As for the console gamers - I'm not sure how it would work out for them.

The PC version uses Steamworks, rendering Online Pass academic. He's talking about the console versions.

Thanks for the clarification <3

 

[Megacherv]

Why not get players to simply buy their own dedicated servers like many games have done? As for the console gamers - I'm not sure how it would work out for them.

That's what it's for. The PC version will have your standard dedicated server rigmarole, the console versions will also use dedicated servers but will be paid for via this.

 

[Exort]

Why should they get paid twice for the same game? Car Companies dont make money when a preowned dealer sells a used car.

Car company also don't pay for oil for your car.

Actually if you buy a new car with a warranty (which is pretty hard not to do these days) it will include maintnence, including your oil. Not only that but the warranty is transferable when you want to sell the car.

It's quite dis-hartning to see people blindly follow companies so they get to double bill. No where else would you find people arguing that publishers should get a double cut because "they can't run the servers". It's marketing bs at it's best. Maybe they should of thought about that when they took away to rent/run your own servers. Oh right, that doesn't work at all I mean I was never able to connect to a CS server on my 56k I mean what will all of us do now we all only have (and this is very generous) 2mb! I guess we need the publishers to run those servers for us because that never worked in the past.
/end rant

Some should try to think critically about these things and vote with your wallet when buying this shit.

http://comedians.jokes.com/jim-gaffigan/videos/jim-gaffigan---bottled-water/

Sorry I meant gasoline, because I'm pretty sure Server doesn't run on maintenance, it run on internet and electricity.
Also I sure none car warranty last forever.
See you the server part of the price of the game is depended on how long a avenge people is going to play, resaling effective double that cost.
Of course they can just charge more at the start which is probably the worst PR move.
They can also make it like Car warranty which let you use the server for let's say 1 year than you have to pay again. I'm pretty sure that is going to piss off even more people.

Furthermore, a P2P game cost 60 dollar and a Dedicated Server game cost 60 dollar. No wonder all console game are P2P.

 

[Exort]

Why should they get paid twice for the same game? Car Companies dont make money when a preowned dealer sells a used car.

Car company also don't pay for oil for your car.

Your comparison makes no sense.

It would be like if the original owner could drive on the highway. Once the car is sold all of sudden the new owner couldnt drive on the Highway without unlocking it for cash. Its not like all of sudden there is new congestion on the freeway its the same amount of vehicles as before.

Game companies are just getting greedy!

Do car company pay for gasoline? dedicated servers need large amount of bandwidth(Internet connection). Unless you are get a private dedicated server youself the game company is paying for it.

See you the server part of the price of the game is depended on how long a avenge people is going to play, resaling effective double that cost.
Of course they can just charge more at the start which is probably the worst PR move.
They can also make it like Car warranty which let you use the server for let's say 1 year then you have to pay again. I'm pretty sure that is going to piss off even more people.

I'm guess most people complaining doesn't even know what is a Dedicated Server or the difference between it and P2P connection.

 

[Fat_Seth]

Why should they get paid twice for the same game? Car Companies dont make money when a preowned dealer sells a used car.

Car company also don't pay for oil for your car.

Your comparison makes no sense.

It would be like if the original owner could drive on the highway. Once the car is sold all of sudden the new owner couldnt drive on the Highway without unlocking it for cash. Its not like all of sudden there is new congestion on the freeway its the same amount of vehicles as before.

Game companies are just getting greedy!

Do car company pay for gasoline? dedicated servers need large amount of bandwidth(Internet connection). Unless you are get a private dedicated server youself the game company is paying for it.

I'm guess most people complaining doesn't even know what is a Dedicated Server or the difference between it and P2P connection.

Ok mister high and mighty. You have No idea of what I know so you need to take a step back. That Bandwith was already paid for the first time the game was bought. And I am not complaining I just question the reason behind things like project ten dollar. So go suck up to your Video game masters you buttkiss.

 

[Exort]

Ok mister high and mighty. You have No idea of what I know so you need to take a step back. That Bandwith was already paid for the first time the game was bought. And I am not complaining I just question the reason behind things like project ten dollar. So go suck up to your Video game masters you buttkiss.

See you the server part of the price of the game is depended on how long a avenge people is going to play, resaling effectively double that cost. (If you don't know bandwith is like subscription, you need to pay for it every month)
Of course they can just charge more at the start which is probably the worst PR move.
They can also make it like Car warranty which let you use the server for let's say 1 year then you have to pay again. I'm pretty sure that is going to piss off even more people because as you might already know a lot of people dislike the idea of subscription.

also Im sorry if you are offended by "I'm guess most people complaining doesn't even know what is a Dedicated Server or the difference between it and P2P connection."
I was trying to point out that P2P cost less than dedicated server, yet both kind of game cost the same.
Which is also why Bobby Koitck is "ok" with used game sale because their server are P2P based which use a lot less bandwith.

 

[Saucycarpdog]

dedicated servers are only good when you commercialize them you mooks! let customers RENT them! the RENT PAYS FOR THE SERVERS.

Its been like this for all previous generation of PC games so i don't know y its suddenly has to be company run only servers?! its completely asinine to even suggest pre-own games has any thing to do with it if they just went back to what it was!

If your games suck so much that no1 wants to rent out servers than sir you've made a terrible gamble on a game in a field where competition is fierce. Sorry u lose.

Unfortunately, the argument about revenue rings a little hollow because pre-owned sales don't increase the number of players, they just swap one player - who likely paid full price for the game - out for another.

well thank you at least someone gets its.

edit: if they want to run a Matchmaking system, than i say FUCK THEM! i've never liked the retarded system. It takes me less time to refresh a master list of servers to select from and get into a game than it does for me to sit there waiting for the retarded matchmaker to give me a random server that may or may not be laggy to me.

And what of console players?

You're only thinking of PC players here.

 

[MR T3D]

Why should they get paid twice for the same game? Car Companies dont make money when a preowned dealer sells a used car.

Car company also don't pay for oil for your car.

Your comparison makes no sense.

No. YOUR comparison doesn't make sense.

When you use a car, there is wear and tear on it, so a used car is an inferior product compared to a new one. A video game doesn't run differently after 30minutes or after 400 hours, barring extreme abuse. By using an online pass, there is now a difference between the new and the used, namely that one has MP features.

PROTIP: The economics of selling games is a unique beast, comparing it to traditional goods is just stupid.

 

[Firehound]

It's not as if one copy can be online twice. You don't see massively loved shooters doing this, like Halo, or Black ops, or any other shooter. They do realize this is a console game, and no one likes typing shit with the virtual keyboards right?

 

[Fat_Seth]

Why should they get paid twice for the same game? Car Companies dont make money when a preowned dealer sells a used car.

Car company also don't pay for oil for your car.

Your comparison makes no sense.

No. YOUR comparison doesn't make sense.

When you use a car, there is wear and tear on it, so a used car is an inferior product compared to a new one. A video game doesn't run differently after 30minutes or after 400 hours, barring extreme abuse. By using an online pass, there is now a difference between the new and the used, namely that one has MP features.

PROTIP: The economics of selling games is a unique beast, comparing it to traditional goods is just stupid.

Really? Protip? Thanks Protipper!

Regardless of what you think when a game is bought new and has the ability to go online.The company is prepared for that copy to go online. When that game is sold and then rebought it dosent create new strain on their servers. If anything they should make a game that people dont want to sell. After 3 years they are just going to shut down the servers anyhow. Thanks for playing.

 

[MR T3D]

Why should they get paid twice for the same game? Car Companies dont make money when a preowned dealer sells a used car.

Car company also don't pay for oil for your car.

Your comparison makes no sense.

No. YOUR comparison doesn't make sense.

When you use a car, there is wear and tear on it, so a used car is an inferior product compared to a new one. A video game doesn't run differently after 30minutes or after 400 hours, barring extreme abuse. By using an online pass, there is now a difference between the new and the used, namely that one has MP features.

PROTIP: The economics of selling games is a unique beast, comparing it to traditional goods is just stupid.

Really? Protip? Thanks Protipper!

Regardless of what you think when a game is bought new and has the ability to go online.The company is prepared for that copy to go online. When that game is sold and then rebought it dosent create new strain on their servers. If anything they should make a game that people dont want to sell. After 3 years they are just going to shut down the servers anyhow. Thanks for playing.

Its still lost revenue to cover all the game's expenses in development, because not all game break even on release day. Keeping high-quality servers running with an influx of new players, especially if they have profile-stats kept on record, increases strain and expense over time.
And who knows if they'll keep them running? maybe they're not making annual sequels, and as such want to be in for the long haul.


I bet you buy lots of used games, As far as any developer is concerned, you might as well just fucking pirate it.

 

[Fat_Seth]

Why should they get paid twice for the same game? Car Companies dont make money when a preowned dealer sells a used car.

Car company also don't pay for oil for your car.

Your comparison makes no sense.

No. YOUR comparison doesn't make sense.

When you use a car, there is wear and tear on it, so a used car is an inferior product compared to a new one. A video game doesn't run differently after 30minutes or after 400 hours, barring extreme abuse. By using an online pass, there is now a difference between the new and the used, namely that one has MP features.

PROTIP: The economics of selling games is a unique beast, comparing it to traditional goods is just stupid.

Really? Protip? Thanks Protipper!

Regardless of what you think when a game is bought new and has the ability to go online.The company is prepared for that copy to go online. When that game is sold and then rebought it dosent create new strain on their servers. If anything they should make a game that people dont want to sell. After 3 years they are just going to shut down the servers anyhow. Thanks for playing.

Its still lost revenue to cover all the game's expenses in development, because not all game break even on release day. Keeping high-quality servers running with an influx of new players, especially if they have profile-stats kept on record, increases strain and expense over time.
And who knows if they'll keep them running? maybe they're not making annual sequels, and as such want to be in for the long haul.


I bet you buy lots of used games, As far as any developer is concerned, you might as well just fucking pirate it.

I wasnt going to respond to you seeing how you obviously think you know everything and get off on being a dick on forums. First you dont know how I spend my money and I will spend it how i see fit so blow me. Second I think you wrong and so do most Publishers, Developers and other various sections of the gaming Industry. Only EA and THQ have implemented these types of revenue streams. Most have come out and stated that they dont think this will combat used game sales. Anyhow goodluck on being an internet bully/dickhead.

 

[DTWolfwood]

dedicated servers are only good when you commercialize them you mooks! let customers RENT them! the RENT PAYS FOR THE SERVERS.

Its been like this for all previous generation of PC games so i don't know y its suddenly has to be company run only servers?! its completely asinine to even suggest pre-own games has any thing to do with it if they just went back to what it was!

If your games suck so much that no1 wants to rent out servers than sir you've made a terrible gamble on a game in a field where competition is fierce. Sorry u lose.

Unfortunately, the argument about revenue rings a little hollow because pre-owned sales don't increase the number of players, they just swap one player - who likely paid full price for the game - out for another.

well thank you at least someone gets its.

edit: if they want to run a Matchmaking system, than i say FUCK THEM! i've never liked the retarded system. It takes me less time to refresh a master list of servers to select from and get into a game than it does for me to sit there waiting for the retarded matchmaker to give me a random server that may or may not be laggy to me.

And what of console players?

You're only thinking of PC players here.

im pretty sure all console multiplayer are hub through dedicated servers already. i.e. xbla/psn runs the hub, and games studios run the servers to match up gamers. The cost for server hosting is always there on the console side. Versus your older generation of PC multiplayer games when the company doesn't have to run anything other than a master server listing.

There is no reason to mention dedicated servers on the Console end because the console user will never see it (probably not feel the latency either,) since its all matchmaking. They wont appreciate it to begin with. (also reasons PC dedicated servers are a hot topic because bandwidth isnt the only thing that affects latency on the PC end, the spec of the rig that runs the game counts too. On the Consoles, all games run equally therefore bandwidth can be fully utilized to host other players)

as mr. Westbrook has said: "Unfortunately, the argument about revenue rings a little hollow because pre-owned sales don't increase the number of players, they just swap one player - who likely paid full price for the game - out for another. "

In practice its all complete bullshit.

Not to mention they can choose to shut down the servers any time they want anyways so whats the point. If its no longer profitable, they turn it off. They will not hesitate to do so either.

It could be that im completely jaded and cynical but when they post anything else to justifying an Online pass other than as incentive for buying new (which suggests bonus content, not unlocking parts of the game) i get enraged.

p.s. dedicated servers on the console just means they are adding unnecessary overhead to their bottom line. So their fault for wanting to spend more on a sector that doesn't need more.