Only realised now why I dont like Nintendo

[josemlopes]

Yeah, I get it that the title sounds a bit stupid but hear me out.

So I always had a thing against Nintendo, not the games or what they once were, I had a thing against it on what it is now but the thing was that I was wrong of what I didnt liked about it.
And this is kind of the reason why I am making this into a thread since a lot of people that also dont like Nintendo usually shares the same idea that I had about them.

Spoiler

I had the idea that the reason I didnt liked them was that they always launched the same games with very little differences from the previous versions, that was my thing but it wasnt all that true since they always had something new that was kind of "big" (motion controllers, co-op, new gameplay style, 3D, etc).
So whenever I complainted of releasing the same game over and over someone always said that I was wrong and that in comparision to another typical sequel the Nintendo games offered something bigger in new content (like the game now being around motion controls, or in 3D, etc)

Spoiler

The thing that does piss me off about Nintendo is the lack of direction and progress, every new Mario game seems like "Mario formula + new thingy", like every time they launch a new game they take out the new thing that the previous game had, its like they go back to a Mario clean slate and add the a new thing to it.

Spoiler

What then happens is that when you play the original game while you will notice the differences they will be as big as the 7th game to the 8th gameplay wise, they arent evolving, they are stuck, its still always Mario collecting the coins and stars through out the level avoiding to be touched.
And it doesnt just happen to Mario games.

Spoiler

I understand that you could say the same of different franchises, but the problem is that other studios usually drop a franchise to start a new different from the previous one, something that Nintendo doesnt do.

I know that Nintendo was innovative as hell back in the days but I wouldnt say the same about it now, every big game that they launch is usually one of their well established franchises.

Spoiler

Most Nintendo games for me feel like they dont bring anything new to the table, they usually bring something but it is usually dropped in the next release ending in a company that doesnt seem to do anything new for gaming.
They did brought motion controls and 3D, and that did change the industry, but for what? To play a Zelda game with motion controls? Or a Mario game in 3D?

Considering what a game is and can be, their games havent evolved at all.
What do you think about it?

 

[TephlonPrice]

Nintendo I guess just likes to milk their franchises for as much money they can make. After all, Zelda, Mario, & whatever franchises they have will STILL find a way onto their new consoles products. And that means they'll keep certain elements intact, and even rehash them, as evidenced.

But I guess it keeps the newer generation interested somewhat in Mario & Zelda & any other franchises they own.

 

[Smeggs]

It's that whole "Nostalgia" factor. Nintendo is basically the only company who can pull it off time after time and still get away with a profit. Sony and Microsoft aren't the ones who have been with the gamers since childhood, though they could probably get away with "God of War 8" or "Halo 13: Revenge of the Gravemind."

 

[D Moness]

It's that whole "Nostalgia" factor. Nintendo is basically the only company who can pull it off time after time and still get away with a profit. Sony and Microsoft aren't the ones who have been with the gamers since childhood, though they could probably get away with "God of War 8" or "Halo 13: Revenge of the Gravemind."

Funny enough god of war had 6 games made (and devs said the franchise is not dead) so GoW 8 will probably not take much time.

Madden and Fifa games are released yearly without much change. You can almost set your watch to CoD releases. Rockstar games is busy with the 14th grand theft auto game(i didn't count the 2 dlc's since those were not full games(the might call it GTA V but they made much more(first was released in 1997 so average of 13 gta games in 14 years))

I won't claim nintendo isn't making games with the same formula again and again(because it sells) i am just saying it isn't only nintendo that gets away with it.

 

[D Moness]

What do you think about it?

sorry for the double post.
What i think about it ... why you put a pic of paper mario(what is more or less a simple rpg) is doing between all the platform mario games.

The paper mario games always have another direction then the platformers (not taking itself seriously for instance)

 

[ThePuzzldPirate]

I have always wondered why people complain about Nintendo doing what every other game company does, I'm not defending Nintendo cause they are guilty of this but so is every other publisher. If it sells, they will continue to make it.

I will defend Nintendo however in that they can keep going. One thing about Nintendo is that their IP quality doesn't drop like other franchises do. They pace their releases and we get quality games every time. Nintendo games continue to be the best in what ever genre they fit in.

 

[josemlopes]

What do you think about it?

sorry for the double post.
What i think about it ... why you put a pic of paper mario(what is more or less a simple rpg) is doing between all the platform mario games.

The paper mario games always have another direction then the platformers (not taking itself seriously for instance)

It was just an example of those things that made the game different and yet kept the franchise on the exact same spot before the game was made.

And for the other people I know that there are the GTA V type of games that are milked too (while not being the 5th) but the thing that annoys me isnt the number of games but the progress of said games, if you pickup GTA 3 and then GTA IV you will see that it tries to be more then GTA 3 (and im not talking about lenght, but what it is as a game) instead of just being diferent.

Its like other companies try to go as deep as they can with something while Nintendo keeps just doing diferent versions of the same premise.

Imagine a movie where you go watch the first one, its a great movie and the second one is coming, it deals with more stuff, it feels bigger, it impacts you more then the first one. Now according to Nintendo you would be watching a sequel that touches the same subject, it feels equal to the first one but now it is also an animated movie. The third one is coming and now its a play.

 

[AyreonMaiden]

Name me another established platformer franchise that gets by solely on booping and coin collecting. Name me another established action/adventure series with the overworld-dungeon interplay of Zelda.

They're only conservative within the context of their long running series and their formulas. Looking at the game industry at large, however, I still say no one makes anything near what Nintendo's doing. And that's awesome and unique in its own right. I don't care if I'm still collecting coins, beating the Elite 4 or saving Zelda. If it's still fun and polished it's worth the money.

Everyone has their price. Everyone has their one property they'd never want to see change too much. The people who slag off Nintendo's conservatism either conveniently ignore this fact or haven't found their "comfort" franchise yet. Ask the X-Com and Dragon Age fans how happy they are with "innovation" and "change." Talk to some disgruntled Elder Scrolls fans of old and ask them how they feel about Skyrim's "innovative" classless system and what that implies for the future of the series.

There is room in the world for a company whose MO is subtle change while remembering its roots. I don't want a brand new uniquely different meal every night of my life, and I don't always want fancy ones either. As a Venezuelan living 12 years in the States, I sometimes crave an arepa with frescolita, and on those nostalgic days I count on Mario and Zelda. In an environment where everyone is doing the AAA thing, creating subscription models, streamlining RPGs or FPSing everything, Nintendo's games still being Good Old Nintendo after 25 years makes them unique as all hell. I value that as a gamer.

 

[Nomanslander]

Actually the reasons I don't care much for Nintendo anymore are a bit different. It's not the fact that they keep to their main IPs and barely make any attempts in new ones. It's pretty much the same reason I don't like Disney like I did as a child. Eventually over time the heads in charge decided to turn their franchises into something they originally not, they decided to pussify them to appeal to a more family oriented audiences. For honestly, would you believe Disney use to make cartoons like these:



Back for me in the NES, SNES, and even some of the N64 days, Nintendo's IPs even though having the appearance of games made for children 10 and below, just seemed a lot more appealing for an older audience. Now much of the reason for this was those early Mario, Zelda, and Metroid iterations didn't have the graphical capacity to look as "pretty" as they do now.

But for me at least, I'm glad mario looked like this:

Instead of this:

Back in the day, having a little bit of imagination to leave a more subjective impression of Mario really went a long way. Because really with the new Mario, it looks to me like Nintendo is trying too hard to appeal to me seven year old side. And back when I was seven, these were the games that made Nintendo great:

(Also should be noted none of these titles are IPs owned by Nintendo, but back then you could only find them on the NES or in the arcades, so they still were Nintendo titles in my eyes)

 

[JasonKaotic]

I didn't really have an opinion on them until they decided to jump on the SOPA bandwagon. Now I hate them dearly.

 

[inutaisho7996]

What gets under my skin is when people who complain about Nintendo doing what your discribing give anyone else a free pass for doing the exact same thing. "Call of Duty", Sonic, Megaman, there are a lot of franchises in video games that are constantly recycled, yet only Nintendo is given flack for it, and that bugs me.

Call of Duty and Battlefield get plenty of flack for being the same over and over again (anti-fanboys of those games complain about that almost as much as they call people that like those games idiotic douchebags), and 3D Sonic games get enough flack for being terrible that no one cares about repetition.

 

[Nomanslander]

Now let's look at most of the popular titles for the Wii:

Right now the 12 year old in me has a strong impulse to shout out the word "GAY," and the 30 year old in me who is trying hard to refrain from that happening because of its derogatory implications is losing that battle. This is NOT the Nintendo I grew up with. The best iteration I've seen of now of what Nintendo stood for me back in the day can be found in these games.

The PS3 and 360 today are what represent what Nintendo use to be, and that's why I won't be owning a Nintendo system until they get that right again.

 

[remnant_phoenix]

What gets under my skin is when people who complain about Nintendo doing what your discribing give anyone else a free pass for doing the exact same thing. "Call of Duty", Sonic, Megaman, there are a lot of franchises in video games that are constantly recycled, yet only Nintendo is given flack for it, and that bugs me.

Exactly.

Every GTA game for the past ten years has only changed from the basic formula that GTA III laid out.

Call of Duty is MUCH more "same thing over and over" than Mario.

If you want to call out industry minds for re-packaging stuff, more power to you. We definitely need some new IP. But, to call out Nintendo while NOT calling out other developers is very narrow-visioned.

 

[Phlakes]

Until Mario games stop being so fucking good, I don't care how much they innovate. Same with their other franchises.

Sticking to a formula is not a bad thing. That's why formulas exist.

 

[the spud]

I still enjoy all of their big first party titles. I know they don't change much, but they still change more than a lot of big franchises that for some reason fly under the "lack of innovation radar". Besides, for most of their series, the lack of change doesn't really bother me since they already feel so unique to begin with.

 

[Hal10k]

Snipsters McGee.

Holy hell, every character in that second group of covers is in the exact same pose. That is either a weird coincidence, extremely lazy marketing executives, or the lamest government conspiracy imaginable.

OT: Nintendo could stand with creating more new IPs, but otherwise they can keep going until people get sick of it as far as I care.

 

[Nomanslander]

Snipsters McGee.

Holy hell, every character in that second group of covers is in the exact same pose. That is either a weird coincidence, extremely lazy marketing executives, or the lamest government conspiracy imaginable.

OT: Nintendo could stand with creating more new IPs, but otherwise they can keep going until people get sick of it as far as I care.

A bit off topic but yeah, that's what you call the "look at me I'm a badass" pose. But if you want to talk about lazy marketing you should check these images out from where Nintendo games back in the day got most of their inspiration for box art.

 

[Mr. Omega]

This basically ammounts to the old "Nintendo only makes Mario, Zelda and Metroid!" Argument...

*Ahem*
Mario, Zelda, Metroid, Kirby, Smash Bros, F-Zero, Pikmin, Fire Emblem, StarFox, Advance Wars, the Mario RPGs (those are different), Donkey Kong Country, Pokemon, Warioware, Kid Icarus, and this is just after two minutes of thinking

In this list alone, we have a company that makes a bunch of 2D and 3D platformers, 2 separate Turn Based Strategy games, a racing game, an two adventure series, 2 RPG series, a minigame collection, a flight combat series and whatever the hell Pikmin is.

All critically loved. All publicly acclaimed.

Most other companies can make one, maybe 2 or if they're really good, 3 genres. Valve only makes FPS games. Bioware only makes RPGs. Not only can Nintendo make a wide variety of games (which EVERYONE is more than happy to ignore so that they can say "Wah, Nintendo only makes Mario, Zelda and Metroid!), but they make GOOD games of all these types. There are barely any other games of these type anywhere in the industry.

People hate the entire company based on Mario. They're more than willing to ignore every other series Nintendo makes, and even the different things Mario does just so they can make what I now call "the CoD argument". And that's not including all the "ooooh, Nintendo is for kiddies!" arguments that people make.

Regarding the "they drop features" claim, that's interesting, and there's a point to be had there. But not entire true. Yes, some things like certain power-ups and things like FLUDD are there and gone, but honestly, would having the Tanooki Suit in every game make the series better? Would Mario with a water pack from every game from Sunshine onward REALLY have been "evoltion"? The thing about the Mario series is that it's able to experiment. To do all sorts of different things with a solid base formula. To me, that's what makes it interesting.

As for the "they don't do anything new" claim, they do do new things. Just because it isn't successful (glasses-less 3D) or you don't like it (motion controls) or it "seems weird" (the touchscreen on the controller) doesn't mean they aren't doing something new.

 

[Nieroshai]

So no matter how gameplay changes, no matter how much progress is made in changing the way we play games, the bee in your bonnet is that it's Mario and Link in those games instead of some new characters? That really is like not seeing the forest for the trees. Your next complaint may be that the games are all consistently rated E aand that as long as they aren't making M rated games they are stuck in the past. Mickey mouse isn't just a Disney character; he is the, the beloved, Disney character. Same with Mario, Link, et al. They are beloved characters. We grew up with them. They introduced us to gaming, and they have introduced us to each new innovation the gaming industry has put forth. We can't wait to see the next adventures of our heroes, just like the TV serials of ages ago. Like it or not, and maybe you just aren't a Nintendo guy, these characters are the face of gaming for a great deal of the gaming community. By all means, feel differently than us, the gaming community is wonderfully diverse. This, however, is why many of us continue to support Nintendo.