Open Carry: How do you feel about it?

[Lev The Red]

guns are not dangerous any more than a pencil is dangerous. it is POSSIBLE to use a pencil to inflict injury. a kid was expelled from my high school for stabbing someone with one.
guns aren't dangerous; people WITH guns are. and that's kinda the idea behind open-carry.

Tell you what, let's have a duel. You can choose a pencil or a gun as your weapon, but if you choose the gun, you have to have one hand tied behind your back.

Obviously, since guns are not dangerous any more than a pencil is, you'll be choosing the pencil and keeping use of both hands, yes?

To where should I send the flowers?

seeing as in a traditional duel, people stand back to back and walk forward 10 paces, THEN start, i would just spin around and stab you in the base of the neck with the pencil before we start walking. sure, it may be unsporting, but i would live. now, were would you like your flowers sent? :-D

just because an object is designed to kill doesn't mean the object is dangerous or bad. in our duel, my pencil ended a life and your gun didn't.
when talking about an object that will not operate of its own accord, the use and/or user of the object is dangerous, not the object itself.

 

[Woodsey]

The concept is almost too bizarre to comment on, although I guess if they've got it in sight you know whose got one. Not that that'd give you that much protection against a fucking bullet anyway.

 

[JaceArveduin]

guns are not dangerous any more than a pencil is dangerous. it is POSSIBLE to use a pencil to inflict injury. a kid was expelled from my high school for stabbing someone with one.
guns aren't dangerous; people WITH guns are. and that's kinda the idea behind open-carry.

Tell you what, let's have a duel. You can choose a pencil or a gun as your weapon, but if you choose the gun, you have to have one hand tied behind your back.

Obviously, since guns are not dangerous any more than a pencil is, you'll be choosing the pencil and keeping use of both hands, yes?

To where should I send the flowers?

Well, there's a simple answer to that: Who actually does "duels" anymore? Most of the time it's an ambush in one way or another. And he was going by that one guy's definition of dangerous, and by that definition a pencil is dangerous, along with many other things.

Years of attempted "crack-downs" have ultimately proved ineffective at keeping that kind of firepower out of the hands of gangs and criminals. Honestly; I'm far more worried about the gangster with a modified Tech-9 or sawed off shotgun in their pants/jacket than the guy openly packing.

Exactly. I'm not worried about the guy who walks into a convenience store with a holstered pistol clearly visible and buys a drink, I'm more worried about the guy who walks into a convenience store and pulls a 1911 out of his ass.

And that's the biggest problem, gun laws don't matter much to those that don't give a fuck about them.

I'd honestly go with both, but I do like to know whether someone has a gun or not. Someone who's got a gun holstered and walking around like a normal person isn't as likely to do something stupid with it do to the fact they know they are being watched closely.

 

[emeraldrafael]

It doesnt necesarrily bother me, but i get rather... anxious in those kinds of environments. that, and I start to judge that person on how they look.

...

I know I shouldnt, but you never know when someone is going to snap or a shooting is going to go off.

 

[Silas13013]

Now Canadians on a per capita basis do have lots of guns, but these are mostly as if not for hunting then farming tools. Sometimes you just have no choice but to put a bullet in old Bessy, or have the protection available to protect your self from real bear arms!

http://7.media.bustedtees.cvcdn.com/9/1/bustedtees.2d2b9839d17e3fb6fc859da14507a709.gif

Anyway, as already echoed in this thread, if people are going to carry I would rather it be open carry. As both an American and a supporter of gun rights I still find those that insist on carrying around guns to be a little off. Bad cities are one thing, (Michigan has Detroit and Flint for example) and I've seen plenty of carriers there, but in the vast majority of the state, guns are best left to the ranges and deer hunting.

 

[Knusper]

Compared to concealed carry, I think it's better because then I know who to be wary of.

Of course I would prefer no guns whatsoever, because I think of it like Mutual Assured Destruction except the weapons aren't in the hands of people who are rational and can think responsibly i.e. the politicians or generals. Think of it like Dr. Strangelove - the bomb was in the hands of lunatics with good intentions on both sides and they ended in a bit of a pickle.

 

[Muspelheim]

Doesn't happen in Sweden, nor the rest of Europe.
Guess why we don't have people getting shot all the time?

We get stabbed instead.

Aye, unless it's the police (incidently those doing the open carry) that shoots. :3


And as awful the experience can be, it's more likely that you survive and recover from a stabwound. Still isn't ideal, but it's at least less lethal.

 

[Sporky111]

Rick Perry goes for morning runs with a laser-sighted pistol.

I guess my point is that there is a point at which carrying a deadly weapon with you becomes ridiculous.

You live in the city/town Not a war zone - you don't NEED a weapon, it's unnecessary and invites trouble. You're not going to find terrorists at WalMart or McDonalds. Put the gun away there champ. If you aren't a cop or a solider there should be no reason you should carry a weapon with you in public. The only possible exception I can think of is farmers, but that's not in the city anyway so yeah.

You pretty much summed up my whole opinion. Nobody in a city needs a gun, not unless they have a legitimate fear for their life, which is still a questionable reason. Farmers have a need, hunters as well, but they tend to be in rural environments. If you live in an urban area, chances are you'll never find yourself in a situation that can't be better handled by police than armed civilians.

However, I suppose with the NDAA in effect America is technically a battlefield now.

 

[Mycroft Holmes]

I am for legalized open carry in all states. I don't think the protection argument holds much water, as guns bring a lot more danger than they prevent. Statistically speaking they kill children because of irresponsible parents, they are fairly likely to cause the death of a home owner more often than a home invader, they are lawsuit magnets, they are expensive(dependent on the type of gun.) All of the statistical evidence against them however is waved away by pathos and (very) few examples (often made up) of times where a gun was able to stop a crime. A better argument that we need them to protect our rights against the government holds more water, but in practice means nothing because as a society we are too lazy, too fat, and feel we have too much to lose for any real action to ever occur. The government stomps on our rights over and over and we do nothing. Besides if the time comes when society feels it needs to break out the guns and stop the government, open carry/concealed carry don't matter any more so that argument really does not apply.

I am for having it be legal based on one point really. And that is that the government should avoid legislating morality as much as it possibly can. People need to be allowed to make their own mistakes and live their own lives. Seeing someone with an openly carried gun does not freak me out, make me afraid, or make me feel safe. And criminals will just get guns anyways because they don't care about laws.

I actually had a funny phone conversation about it with... well I'm not really sure who it was. I didn't think to get his name or who he was working for because I am generally trusting of other individuals(it's the groups that worry me.) In retrospect I really have three theories about it. One would be that that the guy was kind of dumb, one would be that someone was trying to recruit me to assassinate Obama, and the last would be that a government agent was trying to assess if I might pose a danger or not(as I am very vocally against most of what the government does as well as being against both major political parties, also on paper demographically speaking I look like I could easily be a homegrown terrorist.) Judge for yourself, I thought the conversation was quite weird:

*phone rings*
*I answer*
Person: Hello is Mycroft Holmes there?
Me: Yes, you are speaking to him.
Person: I wanted to talk to you today about gun control. Right now Obama is trying to limit our right to own guns, and we are looking for people to help us stop him. Do you own a gun Mycroft?
Me: We'll I'm actually a pacifist and I don't hunt, so I don't personally own any firearms. But I fully support the rights of others to own them and I think it's important that the government does not infringe upon that right.
Person: .... (3-5 second pause)
*clicking sound as he hung up on me*

 

[requisitename]

I knew people would bring out some version of "Guns don't kill people, people kill people." I was really trying to avoid that. The definition I gave of dangerous pretty much says it all to me. "Able or likely to cause harm or injury."

The crux of my belief is that, let's say this is true (guns don't, etc.).. why give people incredibly effective means to do so?

I strongly dislike debating about guns because it's such an emotional issue, especially for those in the US. I have made my views clear: I don't like casual gun ownership and feel it's unnecessary. That is my opinion, others are free to disagree. Disagreement doesn't make either of us intrinsically right.

 

[thelonewolf266]

There is no need for normal people to carry weapons and if you carry one because you are scared then there are a lot of very serious things wrong with your country.Carrying a weapon won't solve them it just adds to the circle of violence and I say this as someone who plans to join the army I'm not some hippy pacifist.

 

[orangeban]

I am for having it be legal based on one point really. And that is that the government should avoid legislating morality as much as it possibly can. People need to be allowed to make their own mistakes and live their own lives. Seeing someone with an openly carried gun does not freak me out, make me afraid, or make me feel safe. And criminals will just get guns anyways because they don't care about laws.

I'm curious about this, maybe the government can legislate about morality (something I totally agree with), but surely it can legislate about safety. You say it yourself, guns are dangerous. And not just to their owners, but to others, particularly children (and yes, I am saying "Oh think of the children!" but it's a valid point when we're putting their lives at risk).

I've never seen gun control as a moral issue (though I'm British, I realise it's treated differently in the US), I've seen it more as a safety issue.

Not attacking you or anything, genuinally interested in why you think this is a moral issue as opposed to a safety issue.

 

[jdun]

Should we ban the SUN, cars, electricity, pools, deers, wild animals, etc because they are dangerously?

The people that open carry aren't dangerous because criminals don't open carry. They don't want to draw attention to the crime they are about to commit. That's pure logic.

 

[Xeldrak]

Well, I'm from Germany...so, the only real guns I've seen in my life were in the hands of Policemen or Soldiers. I'd guess if somebody is carrying a gun, I would like to know about it.

....but to be honest, if you've grown up over here, the mere idea of a civilian walking through the streets with a holstered gun is...creepy.

 

[jdun]

I probably will get a concealed-carry license at some point when I'm old enough and live in a place where I can keep one. And I think even if open-carry were allowed and accepted, I still would conceal it when I carry. It'd draw too much attention, start conversations I probably don't want to have and put me in situations I probably don't want to be in. And the LAST thing I want is somebody tampering with or going after my gun when I'm looking the other way.

As for others carrying open...I dunno, I think it would lead to a lot of unnecessary and awkward situations. Of course nobody should stroll into a store and act all threatening, as though they want some sort of a threat, but I have no doubt many will do exactly that because they can. Most of them probably won't do anything, but it's just an extra unnecessary pressure for the rest of the world. In that sort of a situation, I fully endorse "What you don't know can't hurt you."

There is this person that was in the paper a few times over here before the 2nd amendment got incorporated. He got arrested by the police for open carry. Every times he got arrested he file a civil lawsuit against the police department and won large sum of money from them. He got so rich from the police that they train their officers to stop harassing open carry citizen anymore. That open carry guy is a hero in my book. He stand of for his right and made the police paid.

Since the 2nd amendment got incorporated a few years back, gun right is now a civil right issue. Open carry is implied by the ruling as a normal means of carry. If an organization or person that stop you from from legally exercising your 2nd amendment rights. You can easily sue them into bankruptcy due to it also being a civil right matter.

 

[jdun]

Concealed carry- The guys who walk into the room and start pointing guns at you while you're eating have no idea you are armed, and have no reason to fear you or disarm you.

Open carry- The guys who walk into the room and start pointing guns at you notice you have a gun it your holster. They decide to either disarm you or shoot you.

So as far as safety goes, concealed is much better.

As far as general public is concerned, the majority of people don't like being around people with guns. With concealed they don't know you have a gun, so they don't get freaked out. With open carry a lot of people are going to get scared.

If this is the case than cops and security guards get kill every day because they open carry right? That not the case because when a criminals see a cop, security guard, or open carry citizen they back down. Why? Death is a good motivation.

Why do I care how other feels when I am legally exercising my rights? If they feel uncomfortable it's there problem.

 

[TheYellowCellPhone]

"An armed society is a polite society" -Robert A. Heinlein

For it.

 

[Pegghead]

Really? People do that in the states?

Don't take that as insulting or negative, it's just such a far-cry from the very strict gun laws in place here in Australia (I don't know the nuances, but a guy I know who circumvented the lengthy licensing process because he served in Vietnam has to keep his two low-calibre rifles in a combination locker, never to be loaded in his house. I think they even have to be taken into the range-few and far between over here-under strict conditions).

But from what you've told me of these open carry laws, I guess I'd feel a little uneasy if there were guys walking about openly packing iron. Even if they were someone I trust, I'd still feel a little uneasy. Though I did watch a program about shooting sprees once, and for most of the American examples (i.e the University of Texas incident with the man in the clock-tower) if it weren't for the actions of people with guns alot more lives would've been taken, so I take that into consideration as well. In that case I guess I'd be fine if it meant that, despite my unease, I could be a little easier knowing people were there with firearms if something bad happened. Hell, maybe I could squint and pretend I'm in Fallout or something.

 

[godofallu]

Concealed carry- The guys who walk into the room and start pointing guns at you while you're eating have no idea you are armed, and have no reason to fear you or disarm you.

Open carry- The guys who walk into the room and start pointing guns at you notice you have a gun it your holster. They decide to either disarm you or shoot you.

So as far as safety goes, concealed is much better.

As far as general public is concerned, the majority of people don't like being around people with guns. With concealed they don't know you have a gun, so they don't get freaked out. With open carry a lot of people are going to get scared.

If this is the case than cops and security guards get kill every day because they open carry right? That not the case because when a criminals see a cop, security guard, or open carry citizen they back down. Why? Death is a good motivation.

Why do I care how other feels when I am legally exercising my rights? If they feel uncomfortable it's there problem.

They

Concealed carry- The guys who walk into the room and start pointing guns at you while you're eating have no idea you are armed, and have no reason to fear you or disarm you.

Open carry- The guys who walk into the room and start pointing guns at you notice you have a gun it your holster. They decide to either disarm you or shoot you.

So as far as safety goes, concealed is much better.

As far as general public is concerned, the majority of people don't like being around people with guns. With concealed they don't know you have a gun, so they don't get freaked out. With open carry a lot of people are going to get scared.

If this is the case than cops and security guards get kill every day because they open carry right? That not the case because when a criminals see a cop, security guard, or open carry citizen they back down. Why? Death is a good motivation.

Why do I care how other feels when I am legally exercising my rights? If they feel uncomfortable it's there problem.

Sometimes in life two things can be true. You can be more scary because you have a gun in plain sight, and you can be less dangerous because it's easy to plan around the gun.

I never said you should care, although not caring about others most people would consider to be morally wrong.

Personally I don't give two shits about concealed/open/none carry laws.

 

[LetalisK]

Open carrying is a cry for attention, nothing more. Anyone who honestly gives a shit about their safety and wants to carry a weapon gets their concealed carry permit and uses it.

Should people be allowed to open carry? Fuck yes, makes it easier to identify these people so I can steer clear of them as I wouldn't trust them with a blunt twig.