Open Discussion about Depression Quest as a Game (forget the author attached to it please)

[NateA42]

So I just recently decided to download DQ and try it out.
As somebody with depression myself I thought I should see how it stacks up to real life as it does claim to be a "depression sim."
Before I talk about the actually game itself I will put out the fact that I find it wholly irresponsible to put out a simulator of something that is such a personal experience and different to every one, this will come up later.

The fact that it is a "non-game" as people say it is I find as a moot point by now because we all know somebody could do the same thing in PowerPoint through the use of hyperlinks.

As for how the game displays depression I find it very odd as it is different for everybody but I have to agree it most of the Steam reviews of it in the fact that it portrays the main character "You" as a person so blinded by their own hubris that you shun all those around you (who are actively trying to help you none-the-less) just to be sad and stay home.

I personally see this as short of slander against those who are depressed, short of slander only due to the fact that I don't think the creators meant it that way.
I also find it to be polarizing for somebody who have never experienced depression. Are they to believe their friend who is sad all/most of the time about their problems or should they do what many people already do and just dismiss those problems as selfish self-loathing and as this game suggests it is.

That was my take on the game, hopefully here I can express how I feel about it with somebody calling be a misogynist MRA member for some illogical reason.

 

[Smooth Operator]

Really wouldn't have to go as advanced as PowerPoint, the simplest website would do.
Anyway on the content of this thing, from the style I'm guessing the creator put in their own experience/perspective and that they weren't that concerned with making it a technical breakdown of depression. I get that this this can't claim to portray all forms of depression but at the same time there is no reason to get upset because someone presented their story, provided people are told this comes from one perspective.

 

[Keoul]

It's just a stupid pick your own adventure book.

Okay here's a more in depth explanation. I played it quite a long time ago (a year ago I think) and the whole thing felt cliche, all I had to do to "win" was to do everything you've heard other people say. Get out more, buy a cat to keep up morale, go see a psychiatrist, keep going out and hanging with friends even if you don't want to. It's just so... obvious I guess, I don't think that "game" really does anything at all. Doesn't really explain depression nor does it really help with depression since it just gives advice already given.

Iunno, it was a bad game when I played so I just forgot about it until this conspiracy thing came up.

 

[Elfgore]

I don't know if I just suck at all kinds of games or what, because I had one hell of a time trying to "win". I'd say the game have me as best a look at depression someone without it could get. I kept playing, only to see the options I not only wanted to do, but needed to do, being blocked out. So I assume that is what depression does, prevents you from actively doing the things you want and need to do. I wouldn't say it enlightened me to what someone who is depressed goes through, but does give me some idea. Or at least I think it did. I've never had any experience with depression, even with a close friend or family member, so I have no clue.

Kinda funny though, I played her game a week before all this shit went down and wasn't even aware it was about the same thing.

 

[NateA42]

I don't know if I just suck at all kinds of games or what, because I had one hell of a time trying to "win". I'd say the game have me as best a look at depression someone without it could get. I kept playing, only to see the options I not only wanted to do, but needed to do, being blocked out. So I assume that is what depression does, prevents you from actively doing the things you want and need to do. I wouldn't say it enlightened me to what someone who is depressed goes through, but does give me some idea. Or at least I think it did. I've never had any experience with depression, even with a close friend or family member, so I have no clue.

Kinda funny though, I played her game a week before all this shit went down and wasn't even aware it was about the same thing.

That's where the game makes no sense, even if you are depressed if your friends want to do stuff with you then you're still going to do it with them, you might not have as much fun but still.
Where it really hits you though is being reduced to not wanting to go outside ever unless it's directly need or you are with somebody (for me at least.) But for everyone it just makes it harder to work up to want to exercise or to eat in moderation.

Really wouldn't have to go as advanced as PowerPoint, the simplest website would do.
Anyway on the content of this thing, from the style I'm guessing the creator put in their own experience/perspective and that they weren't that concerned with making it a technical breakdown of depression. I get that this this can't claim to portray all forms of depression but at the same time there is no reason to get upset because someone presented their story, provided people are told this comes from one perspective.

I totally get that and knew that would come up but she didn't advertise it as "her story" of depression (if she ever really had it) but as this is what it is like.
Not really even a branching story but it was just this, then this, then this. Like a COD level progression.

"You" in DQ seem to some how be a person devoid of outside stimuli lol.

 

[stroopwafel]

I think with Depression Quest we finally see the medium maturing beyond the ?angry white dude? shooting at things. A game consisting solely of a mopey text is the evolution we always waited for. The game is all about difficult choices, and does this game have them in spades. Will I go out with my girlfriend or stay at home? Will I find a job or procastinate? Every choice leaves you with another excruciating dilemma.

And then there?s the music man, it draws you in even more. The looping melody that is so deliberately ?somber? that it isn?t at all cheesy. The writing is so lethargic that it doesn?t even need any graphics to immerse you into the game.

Impressive stuff. I hope we have a sequel in which we get to play as maybe a disgruntled office employee or frustrated family man. If this game will be as insightful as Depression Quest was for a depressive, it?ll probably have the potential to be goty.

 

[Ten Foot Bunny]

Quite frankly, I loved the game. It was a frighteningly accurate portrayal of what can happen when you sink to a level of depression at which hardly anything can reach you anymore...

The point at which a chemical imbalance that you can't simply "think your way out of" takes control of your thoughts and renders you a puppet to a mood disorder that has the potential to kill...

The point at which your inability to see a shred of good inside of you makes you wonder why anybody wants to be near you, and so you inadvertently go into a bubble that can't be popped from within...

The point at which people no longer understand why you won't just listen and begin to disappear from your life at the very time that you shouldn't be alone...

The point at which you then conclude that, because you're alone, it proves the validity of the dark thoughts your brain relentlessly churns out...

The point at which somewhere, deep inside you, you hear a tiny voice that tries to remind you that you're good, but those thoughts only bring more pain because you can't consciously see a single redeeming quality to your existence...

The point at which you question everything you've done, everything you haven't done, and your interactions with every person you've been in contact with...

The point at which moving a single muscle is a painful reminder that maybe you ARE still human, and that thought makes you cry so hard that you can't move again until you sleep for another 20 hours...

The point at which you wake up at night, look at the moon, and decide the entire universe has no use for you...

-----------------

Not everybody's depression can be summarized as a general malaise that makes it hard to get out of bed, or makes you think twice about going out with friends before coming to some "inevitable" conclusion that it would be the best thing to do. Depression kills, and it has an easier time doing so if the people in a depressed person's life don't recognize it or, worse still, don't care.

The options in Depression Quest, while nowhere near as detailed as what I wrote above, perfectly encapsulate the way that the illness can get worse if one doesn't take the proper precautions. Those DO include listening to people in your life who try to help (please go to the doctor and look into treatment), it includes doing things that your depressed brain is fighting against (make an effort to get ready and go out tonight), and actively changing things in your environment that will give you a better chance of recovery (get a cat so you can remember how loved you are).

And please, let's refrain from this:

she didn't advertise it as "her story" of depression (if she ever really had it)

The worst, and I do mean THE WORST (!!!) thing you can say to someone with depression is that they're not depressed. The fastest way to cause a depressed person to withdraw and start going into the downward spiral is to deny how they're feeling, thus "proving" to them that they're flawed at some other, unknowable level that they'll never find.

You don't know how far down the rabbit hole someone with depression is, so please think twice about minimizing their struggles. That kind of talk could very well push them right off the cliff.

 

[SonicWaffle]

It's an important step in game development. I find it darkly amusing that so many people will complain of gaming being homogenous and crack the same old "white guy shoots at things" jokes, but then when a game attempts to do something a little more meaningful it's "not a game" because it steps outside expected parameters.

If DQ were about a space marine suffering PTSD, attempting to force themselves to keep going out and killing alien zombies as their mental state degenerates because they know it's what is expected of them, I wonder if we would have the same set of reactions? It'd be functionally the same, but we'd have a win condition to strive for and a simple cultural touchstone for understanding the reasons behind our character's struggle - War Is Hell, after all - rather than interpreting it as "I feel sad today".

You ever notice how many indie darlings, the games held up as examples when we talk about how games can be more than just cover-based shooters, are really just basic platformers with interesting mechanics or other recurrences of common game types? Then when a game comes out that doesn't fit neatly into the aegis of what we label "games", we criticise it for being boring, unfun or difficult to win.

We either want a medium that moves forwards and does new things, or we don't. We can't have it both ways, and that means not kicking apart games which are different because they don't fit into the mould we're most comfortable with.

 

[raeior]

I don't know if I just suck at all kinds of games or what, because I had one hell of a time trying to "win". I'd say the game have me as best a look at depression someone without it could get. I kept playing, only to see the options I not only wanted to do, but needed to do, being blocked out. So I assume that is what depression does, prevents you from actively doing the things you want and need to do. I wouldn't say it enlightened me to what someone who is depressed goes through, but does give me some idea. Or at least I think it did. I've never had any experience with depression, even with a close friend or family member, so I have no clue.

Kinda funny though, I played her game a week before all this shit went down and wasn't even aware it was about the same thing.

That's where the game makes no sense, even if you are depressed if your friends want to do stuff with you then you're still going to do it with them, you might not have as much fun but still.

This might be true for some but definitely not for everyone. In my case friends had to basically drag me someplace when I were really down. I got a headache, was tired or generally thought "Well feeling this way how much fun would I be around others? I don't want to destroy their evening". Saying this I found DQ a pretty accurate depiction of depression and thought it was well made if not a game.
The thing about how easy it is to win..well...I guess that is kinda true in RL too? Suffering alone and eating everything up inside you isn't gonna help you. It's just a lot harder to behave like this in RL.

The worst, and I do mean THE WORST (!!!) thing you can say to someone with depression is that they're not depressed. The fastest way to cause a depressed person to withdraw and start going into the downward spiral is to deny how they're feeling, thus "proving" to them that they're flawed at some other, unknowable level that they'll never find.

Oh god this! "Hey just cheer up and everything will be fine!" Who doesn't love it....

 

['Record Stops.']

Papers please was a game that hit everything Depression Quest "attempted" to do but better. It also had a vastly more intelligent and less insipid developer who didn't guilt trip people into playing a game only made to prop up the dev's ego. But we'll reserve that kind of logic for the actual discussion page where it belongs.

You want an actual text adventure game that DOESN'T suck and doesn't try to hit a concept that the dev had no idea whatsoever about and could never even hope to understand due to their egotistical personality? Try Zork, come back after you've experienced quality writing and tell me that Depression Quest was good.

Also the fact that Depression Quest has the same Acronyms as Dragon Quest which is far better and my favorite RPG series to boot is...not exactly an appealing concept for me.

All points withstanding, Depression Quest was a cute little gimmick but not much of anything else. It's a text based adventure that doesn't even have the insane justification of Homestruck nor the writing chops of Zork, it hits on a VERY insidious and awful health condition not because it's trying to raise awareness for the condition or bring sympathy to people to have it, but because it was made for the sole purpose of garnering attention from the masses. Just like the marketing for the game, also...Indiedevsareagroupofsexistthugssaywhat?

Edit:Just so we're on the same page and we don't get ZQ apologists ringing my earholes with their angry ranting, I'm someone with a history of mental health issues and a near constant anxiety problem that threatens at times to develop into full on depression. I understand how horrible it can be to get out of a mental rut and get outside to enjoy yourself, because I've been there, done that, came back with a crappy t-shirt and found that it wasn't fun. Depression Quest wasn't made for Depressed people, it was made simply because Depression was a hot button topic and it'd get critical "acclaim" for being different. When in reality it and the Dev who is trying to make it the next big thing are just so much controversy for controversy's sake.

 

[major_chaos]

I wasn't the least bit impressed. First it was a non-game which instantly sets my opinion very low, because I play games primarily for the gameplay. Second, as someone who lives with depression, I didn't really appreciate the representation. This doesn't apply to everyone, but I have never, ever wanted or appreciated pity. Pity made me feel worse when I was at my lowest point, pity didn't cause me to get help, and now that its as under control as its gonna get, pity makes me feel patronized. And for some reason, DQ felt like a game meant to make you feel pity for those with depression and that's awful.

 

[Harpalyce]

I haven't played it yet, but it's on my list of things to play.

A lot of the critique here I kind of blink at and then nod because, yeah, that's how depression does. When your brain is stuck in this mode where you can't get pleasure from things, why bother seeking out stimuli? When your brain is constantly telling you that you're not good enough to reach out to friends, why bother trying? Depression is one hell of a disease.

Yeah, it's frustrating. Yeah, it seems like a pile of bullshit. That's... well, that's how depression does.

I actually think games, as interactive storytelling, are in a really good place to give people a slice of life of how others suffer. For example, a sort of slang referenced among those with chronic illnesses is 'spoon theory' - you only get a certain amount of 'spoons' of energy per day, and it varies, and sometimes you just find yourself 'out of spoons'. I don't know about you, that sounds suspiciously like a concept ripe to be made into a game mechanic. Imagine playing a game where your energy was a limited resource in such a way. Imagine how frustrating it would be if you hit a flare-up period and only had 2 units of energy per day for like 2 weeks when a normal person might have 20. And it is frustrating! Believe me, I can tell you all about it!

If I made that game and even just one person threw their hands up and went "THIS IS BULLSHIT!", I'd be able to say, "yes, yes it is, isn't it?" and maybe get them to understand that's what life is like for a lot of people, then it's worth it. Just to have that person out there not yelling at people to pull themselves up by their bootstraps. It's not pity as much as it's understanding that these things are illnesses and not failures of personality.

 

[SonicWaffle]

The problem i found with depression quest is that it had laudable goals but not much else. Have many people who tout it as a breath of fresh air and a step forward actually played and enjoyed it as a game?

"Enjoyed" is a strange choice of word. Given the subject matter, I wouldn't have thought enjoyment was amongst the intended reactions, which seems fair to me. We aren't intended to enjoy every story we consume through other forms of media, so why should games be any different?

Sometimes people want to tell sad or disturbing stories, and if they want to tell them through games, all the better.

 

[MysticSlayer]

I played it about a year ago even before the whole Wizardchan ordeal. As someone who knew barely anything about depression and had little motivation to look into it, the game definitely served its purpose: It motivated me to look into what depression actually was rather than what I had heard from people who consistently act like it is "no big deal".

Probably my biggest complaint from the game was how it originally asked me to try to make choices based on how I would respond if I had depression. I think it might have reminded me about how that means lacking motivation, but at the same time, as someone who doesn't have depression, there's no way that I can really put myself into the shoes of someone who has depression no matter how hard I try. Considering the game was meant to raise awareness, I think it should have done a better job at assuming the person playing has little to not knowledge of depression.

After that, though, I was absorbed in the story. I barely realized how much time had passed when playing it and it stayed in my mind long after it was over. Heck, it still sticks in my mind to this day. The simple mechanics of just making choices felt perfect for the game's story about someone who may struggle with making the choices that they know they should make simply due to lacking motivation. The writing did a decent job of complementing this, as it often left me in a saddened state, and the choices I made were often based around how I normally respond when I'm in a bad mood and lacking motivation. Yeah, it was simple, but it was an excellent example of how even the simplest of mechanics can work if they are contextualized properly. Next to The Walking Dead, I'd say that Depression Quest is the best example of how dialogue and choice can itself be a gameplay mechanic, at least far as I have played.

But as far as it being a game or not, I think the discussion is limiting at best. Games like The Walking Dead already reduce gameplay to mostly a series of choices that complement the ongoing story. Games like Loneliness and Amnesia: The Dark Descent are already less about winning than they are about immersing yourself in the world and/or narrative, and Amnesia flat-out tells the player that it doesn't care about them winning so much as immersing themselves in the world and story. And there are so many games that don't have explicit win states that we can't really say that the presence of an explicit win state is what makes a game, and if lacking a lose state is a sign of not being a game, then we might as well consider BioShock not a game considering there is no real lose state in those games given that you either resurrect in a Vita chamber (BioShock, BioShock 2) or get transported to another universe (BioShock Infinite). Really, defining what a game is is nearly impossible, and we often just limit ourselves when we try to explain what makes it not a game, as we'll inevitably give a reason that can exclude so many other games that are recognized as games.

Even if you could define what a game is, though, and show that Depression Quest isn't actually a game, then you haven't actually discredited it. You've just recategorized it, and re-categorizing it does nothing to discredit it, so the criticism is moot.

 

[Evil Moo]

I played it recently. It seemed to mirror my own experience of what I would call depression fairly closely (I never actually got a professional assessment of it, but I don't know what else it would be). In fact it was somewhat depressing to find the main character getting along with it far better than I had, what with having friends to prod him into going to therapy and somehow maintaining a loving supportive relationship, whereas nobody seemed to even notice when I was so despondent I would just lie on the floor of my room for hours at a time, unable to bring myself to so much as try and do something that might make me feel better.

I feel it accomplished what it set out to do. While it is mechanically pretty shallow, I feel too much complex interaction might have clouded the message somewhat. You don't want to be able to run around levels in a game about a condition that very much gets in the way of that sort of thing. Another approach might have been to go 'artsy' and have traditional gameplay mechanics change to be somehow representative of the metal state of the character (walking becomes sluggish, colours lose saturation, objects in the world hint at what the character is going through in various ways etc.) but I find those sorts of games to come across as clumsily presented collections of obvious metaphors more often than not. This is not to say it couldn't have been done differently or better, but it seemed to work well enough as it was.

 

[Redd the Sock]

Haven't played it but I see it as both having potential, yet potential for flaws. I mean, I wish people could get off calling it a game instead of a visual (or non visual) novel, or teaching tool like they lose credibility if they can't call it a game, but neurotic people aside, nothing is wrong in concept.

On the problematic end, I only say potentially because it depends on who wrote it. From self-diagnosed tumblirites, angsty fanfic writers, hip to be goth types, hypochondriacs, and webMD, I question both the accuracy behind the scenarios and possibilities, and people's judgement about the accuracy of it's depiction. It's something I think therapists or doctors might be fairer judges of. I hate to be jaded on this one, but I have relatives that never saw a doctor, but had several issues after being introduced to them by Oprah and Dr. Phil episodes, so I'm naturally skeptical.

 

[NateA42]

Regarding the assertion in the OP about the game dismissing the problems as selfish self-loathing, isn't the point that you, as the protagonist, see yourself that way exactly because you have depression?

Sorry but I'm having trouble following the implication there.
The idea of the game (as I took it) is that you do not play the main character as in you do not play "Mario" or "Walker" but you instead play *you.* How the game displays it's ideas is you are you fuck all else.

she didn't advertise it as "her story" of depression (if she ever really had it)

The worst, and I do mean THE WORST (!!!) thing you can say to someone with depression is that they're not depressed. The fastest way to cause a depressed person to withdraw and start going into the downward spiral is to deny how they're feeling, thus "proving" to them that they're flawed at some other, unknowable level that they'll never find.

You don't know how far down the rabbit hole someone with depression is, so please think twice about minimizing their struggles. That kind of talk could very well push them right off the cliff.

I see how you took that as a petty jab at her but I am somebody who does believe in due process and proof. Given previous evens with how she has acted without proving to anybody that anything has actually happened I therefore inferred that she game the game wholly as an "artsy cash grab." Now I might be incorrect in the inference but I stand by it though the sheer use of logic, I am not looking at them as a person but as entities mind you. But that is neither here nor there on the topic we are supposed to be discussing.
Now if a random person on the street were to tell me they were depressed I would be more inclined to believe them due to me having no knowledge of their past affairs.

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Now onto my assemsemnt of the game as "slanderous" I might add that partly I'm a thick non-caring SOB over the internet unless somebody comes off to me immediately as intelligent.
Personally I have been diagnosed with major depressive disorder and many of my friends left me once I told them and the ones that stuck can never really do anything due to the fact that they are always busy (I am yet to be able to find another job after the place I worked at out bought out and he laid us all off.)
On the topic of mental illness as I have passed multiple college courses of psychology and sociology along with getting law enforcement training that goes along with that too.

I will retain the Spec Ops gives a better look into PTSD then DQ does into depression almost solely due to the fact that Spec Ops has to play "the main character" while DQ has you play "the mythical linear *you*" that the devs control.