Opinions on Whale Wars?
- Thread starter Soviet Heavy
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I don't think that hurting humans is worth it to save animal life. Ever.
As I see it, anyone who kills cockroaches, or any other animal that is considered normal to kill, has no business telling the whalers what to do. I'm willing to bet that that includes most, if not all, those against whaling.
As I see it, anyone who kills cockroaches, or any other animal that is considered normal to kill, has no business telling the whalers what to do. I'm willing to bet that that includes most, if not all, those against whaling.
If I may ask, what is the appropriate response to animal abuse? Writing letters? Drafting petitions? Stewing on forums with cynical apathy?NiPah said:
If you think it's morally questionable, why not do something about it, aside from watching Whale Wars while rooting for the whalers? That seems like quite a bit of cognitive dissonance.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AnthropocentrismDoom972 said:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biodiversity
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ignorance
Some links you might find helpful.
Critics of this use of the term argue that it has been defined in order to vilify activists, and that the term would be more properly employed to describe the environmentally damaging activities of corporations.Doom972 said:
I agree! Good link!
IWC is a voluntary international organization and is not backed up by treaty. Therefore, the IWC, in essence, is a voluntary organization which has substantial practical limitations on its authority. First, any member countries are free to simply leave the organization and declare themselves not bound by it if they so wish. Second, any member state may opt out of any specific IWC regulation by lodging a formal objection to it within 90 days of the regulation coming into force[21] (such provisions are common in international agreements, on the logic that it is preferable to have parties remain within the agreements than opt out altogether). Third, the IWC has no ability to enforce any of its decisions through penalty imposition.Doom972 said:
Good explanation of why the IWC is a fundamentally toothless organization! Good link again!
As my argument is that your statement that humans must never be hurt in order to preserve animal life is absurdly anthropocentric to the point of being actively dangerous, I'm not certain where you see me assuming a hypocritical stance, nor why you think posting links to the IWC and Eco-Terrorism is in any way, shape or form a rebuttal to that assertion. Perhaps you are unclear on the definition of hypocrisy? The link you have provided may offer some insight.Doom972 said:
No, that was excellent, thank you. Good to know we're on the same page.Doom972 said:
The Japanese whalers are as bad, they deliberately sank the Sea Shepard ship the Ady Gil.
No one will get prosecuted as long as this stuff is happening in international waters, in the recent Sea Shepard campaign around the Faeroe Isles they had to tread very carefully because of the potential legal ramifications if things got as bonkers as they do in the Southern Ocean. They do get prosecuted from time to time, usually when a company gets angry after having its nets cut or something for example.
As for the Sea Shepherds themselves? The work they do is great, I have made several donations over the years. The crews risk their lives to try and save whales from illegal whaling and protect almost extinct species of Dolphin or fish that might be in the same situation in a few years if over fishing continues.
As a species we are incredibly stupid, if the oceans die we die and its as simple as that. Organisations like the Sea Shepherds try to limit the damage and more importantly use their activism to try and raise awareness. They are not ineffective at protecting the whales either, the whalers do kill some whales but for each hour or day they stop them from whaling adds up and means hundreds of whales are saved, one season they actually managed to make the whalers give up and go home.
For those saying its reckless to risk hurting human beings to try and save animals, sure it might be but the Japanese Whalers are just as willing to risk hurting or killing humans in order to kill whales.
They have deliberately rammed, damaged and on one occasion sank a ship and they have fired military grade sonic weapons at helicopters to name but a few incidents.
No one will get prosecuted as long as this stuff is happening in international waters, in the recent Sea Shepard campaign around the Faeroe Isles they had to tread very carefully because of the potential legal ramifications if things got as bonkers as they do in the Southern Ocean. They do get prosecuted from time to time, usually when a company gets angry after having its nets cut or something for example.
As for the Sea Shepherds themselves? The work they do is great, I have made several donations over the years. The crews risk their lives to try and save whales from illegal whaling and protect almost extinct species of Dolphin or fish that might be in the same situation in a few years if over fishing continues.
As a species we are incredibly stupid, if the oceans die we die and its as simple as that. Organisations like the Sea Shepherds try to limit the damage and more importantly use their activism to try and raise awareness. They are not ineffective at protecting the whales either, the whalers do kill some whales but for each hour or day they stop them from whaling adds up and means hundreds of whales are saved, one season they actually managed to make the whalers give up and go home.
For those saying its reckless to risk hurting human beings to try and save animals, sure it might be but the Japanese Whalers are just as willing to risk hurting or killing humans in order to kill whales.
They have deliberately rammed, damaged and on one occasion sank a ship and they have fired military grade sonic weapons at helicopters to name but a few incidents.
Spreading the word, building up popular opinion so you can change laws and pass sanctions to end abuse. The best response for the Sea Shepards would have been to bring to light why what the Japanese whalers are doing is wrong, instead you get a bunch of people who look like idiots and do more harm to their movement then good.ThrobbingEgo said:
Yes I do have a bit of cognitive dissonance, I get it every time I eat meat or buy cloths made by near slave labor, or with the knowledge that as I type this many civilians in Syria are being slaughtered by their own government. I know that my safe easy life as a white male in western society was built on the death and struggle of countless people and animals, so while I do what I can to leave a positive mark on the world by my actions I will never say my life was not built my morally irreprehensible actions. I question the morality of the Japanese whalers like I question the morality of slaughtering a pig for food, to be honest in the grand scheme of things I view this as not worthy of any action by myself to change the current practice.
Actually that was the season before. This last season they bought a SECOND Batboat and that one nearly sunk because the seas were too rough (go figure). Now if this was a surprise to them; that'd be one thing, but it turns out on the vessel previous (I believe the Adi Gill) the weather was rough enough in the latitudes known as the 'roaring forties' that its satelite and comm. equipment got knocked out.Soviet Heavy said:
I might be more sypathetic towards Sea Shepherd if they were more effective (and not endangering lives) but they're the Keystone Cops of the sea...and I that's the only thing that keeps me watching.
Ultratwinkie said:
I'll chalk it up as a typo. I rushed that post out before i left for work so i didnt read over it and catch my mistake.direkiller said:
Like I said earlier, I think the sea shepard group are the only ones doing anything because they are not part of some bureaucratic bullshit.Ultratwinkie said:
Honestly, so long as its in International waters, IDGAF.
A human life, IMO, is no more important than the life of a creature in an endangered species simply because they're human. If the Japanese want to be A-holes and hunt the whales to extinction, they should be ready to be attacked in turn by people who are sworn to protect the whales.
Of course, no country is going to take action. Attacking a Japanese whaling boat with one countries military would start a war, and there isn't a ton of reason to take the stupid activists into custody if its in International waters. Yeah, they attacked a Japanese whaling boat. My country should care because?
Let the Japanese deal with it. If they attack the boats within a nations waters, then sure - take them into custody. In international waters though, IMO its the problem of whichever country's boats were attacked, not the whole world's.
To be completely honest, I wish these guys would wise up and upgrade their ships to be more like Tiremes; get some decent ramming power behind those hits.
That and only target the bays that the whale is dragged up into. Disabling them means the ship will be unable to effectively hunt whales, yet it won't necessarily sink the ship either - dependent on the design.
A human life, IMO, is no more important than the life of a creature in an endangered species simply because they're human. If the Japanese want to be A-holes and hunt the whales to extinction, they should be ready to be attacked in turn by people who are sworn to protect the whales.
Of course, no country is going to take action. Attacking a Japanese whaling boat with one countries military would start a war, and there isn't a ton of reason to take the stupid activists into custody if its in International waters. Yeah, they attacked a Japanese whaling boat. My country should care because?
Let the Japanese deal with it. If they attack the boats within a nations waters, then sure - take them into custody. In international waters though, IMO its the problem of whichever country's boats were attacked, not the whole world's.
To be completely honest, I wish these guys would wise up and upgrade their ships to be more like Tiremes; get some decent ramming power behind those hits.
That and only target the bays that the whale is dragged up into. Disabling them means the ship will be unable to effectively hunt whales, yet it won't necessarily sink the ship either - dependent on the design.
That's not whale wars. I can clearly see a boat in there, and unless the boat is a mercenary employed by another whale, it ain't a war of whales.BloatedGuppy said:This isn't Whale Wars. This is ship wars.
THIS is Whale Wars.
OT: My opinion is that there ought to be a movie about it. And no, Moby Dick doesn't count. I side with the anti-whalers, because from what I hear the whaling is done under false 'research' pretenses, in Antarctic territorial waters. Screw em to hell.
I sorta stopped caring about those retards long ago.
I have a great dislike of all militant animal rights activists, especially ones that lie about getting shot in order the vilify others. But then that's their shtick, right? "It's for a good cause, so it's okay for us to lie and make shit up."
I have a great dislike of all militant animal rights activists, especially ones that lie about getting shot in order the vilify others. But then that's their shtick, right? "It's for a good cause, so it's okay for us to lie and make shit up."
I have a great respect for the whalers. Holding their temper well enough to not shoot them all, the camera crew, and dropping them in the ocean is a remarkable feat.
Haven't seen the show, only heard about these annoying, annoying people.
Haven't seen the show, only heard about these annoying, annoying people.
Your totally right! I mean why did we even fight Hitler, we should have all inspired to be like Neville Chamberlain!Ultratwinkie said:
/sarcasm.
I didn't say that Sea Shepard was the best option, just that they seem to be the only group getting any results.