Opting Out of Parenthood

[The Lesbian Flower]

Parents, through many legal troubles, can opt out of raising their kids. Some common reasons are that they aren't financially ready for a child, they don't want a child, or they don't want have to commit to one for 18 years. They can choose to eliminate their parental rights through adoption (which requires consent of both parents unless the father is missing since or before the birth of the child) or just because (even though courts are reluctant to do so and the parent requires consent from the other parent as well). They can also be stripped of the their rights if they are abusive and/or unstable. And, of course, women can always do the ultimate opt out of abortion.

Sources: http://www.myoutofcontrolteen.com/mr-rights.html
http://encyclopedia.adoption.com/entry/termination-of-parental-rights/356/1.html


Some of the questions I raise about opting out are these:

Should courts eliminate parental rights of parents who ask for it without question?
Is it morally justifiable that a parent would give up parental rights in exchange for not having to pay child support?
Should the consent of the other parent be required for one to give up their rights to a child?
Should a parent be able to terminate their rights no matter what age the child is?
If giving a child up for adoption requires the consent of both mother and father, should abortion be given the same consideration?

My answers in order: Yes, Yes, No, Maybe, No.

 

[SckizoBoy]

As with all questions of this level of ambiguity, there is the matter of context to consider.

Depending on circumstances, input from the other parent should be considered, but then there are other blindly obvious situations where it shouldn't.

Therefore all answers = depends.

Question in return: if a woman gives birth as a result of being raped, should the state force the father to pay for the child's upkeep?

 

[Canadamus Prime]

My answers in order:
No
No
Yes, if at all possible.
No
Yes, again if possible.

Being a parent isn't just a right, it's a responsibility and people need to learn to face their responsibilities one way or another.

 

[Colour Scientist]

Being a parent isn't just a right, it's a responsibility and people need to learn to face their responsibilities one way or another.

Couldn't agree with this more. Children aren't like goldfish. You can't just give them away when you don't feel like feeding them anymore.

No.
No.
Yes.
No.
No.

 

[Canadamus Prime]

Being a parent isn't just a right, it's a responsibility and people need to learn to face their responsibilities one way or another.

Couldn't agree with this more. Children aren't like goldfish. You can't just give them away when you don't feel like feeding them anymore.

Yes, precisely. I think far too many people these days look at children like they do a dog or cat, as soon as it becomes an inconvenience they can get rid of it. NO! No, you can't, and any legal system shouldn't enable them to do so! When you brought that life into this world, either intentionally or unintentionally, it became your responsibility to care for it and look after it until such time as it's able to take care of itself.

 

[Verlander]

Should courts eliminate parental rights of parents who ask for it without question?

No, but the questions should be appropriate, with the goal of allowing it in the right circumstances, rather than banning it in the wrong ones.

Is it morally justifiable that a parent would give up parental rights in exchange for not having to pay child support?

This is a twisted, non-constructive question.I don't agree with the assumption that it's the child-support that raises this issue. So no, BUT I don't think that this is a major issue regarding the topic.

Should the consent of the other parent be required for one to give up their rights to a child?

No, that is a blackmail situation.

Should a parent be able to terminate their rights no matter what age the child is?

Yes, age isn't the issue, bad parenting is.

If giving a child up for adoption requires the consent of both mother and father, should abortion be given the same consideration?

Simply put, if you remove the importance of any parent (judging by the posts here, most people assume the father is going to be the obstacle), then you absolve most of their responsibility as parents, and thus you find yourself in the situation where you are inadvertently condoning the actions of a neglectful parent as "ok", due to their lessened capacity as parents.

Like the TRUE reason for abortion in the first place, exemption to this must be in place for victims of rape or critical illness, but in terms of abortion for convenience, it should be a joint decision.

 

[Hagi]

Should courts eliminate parental rights of parents who ask for it without question?

No. There should be a forced conversation with a social worker or even psychologist about the reasons, the likely effects on the parents and the likely effects on the child.

Such a decision should never be made without sufficient information and parents should be forced into a conversation about it.

Is it morally justifiable that a parent would give up parental rights in exchange for not having to pay child support?

No, I think a biological parent who gives up parental rights should still be required to pay child support unless whatever party does have parental rights agrees with stopping the payments.

A child is a parent's responsibility even if he/she gives up their parental rights. You made the child, now you pay for it. It's not right that someone else pays the bill for your actions.

Should the consent of the other parent be required for one to give up their rights to a child?

No, it should not. But even when giving up parental rights they should still be required to pay child support if they're a biological parent.

Should a parent be able to terminate their rights no matter what age the child is?

Yes, but again with a forced conversation with a social worker or psychologist on the reasons and effects. Also if they're the biological parent they should pay child support to whatever party has parental rights.

If giving a child up for adoption requires the consent of both mother and father, should abortion be given the same consideration?

No. Abortion operates under the premise that what is aborted is not a child yet. It does not have a father or a mother. It's a piece of tissue in a woman's body that will eventually grow into a child. If abortion is legal it should be considered nothing more then artificially induced menstruation, an ovum leaving the woman's body. It just happens to be fertilized by a sperm cell and possibly later then normal.

 

[ChildofGallifrey]

Hooooo boy, here I go. This is a subject I feel strongly about, so I'm probably going to get long winded here, and likely go off track a bit. Bear with me.

Spoiler: Super ranty-rant

It's a fairly old and cliche joke, but I honestly believe that people should have to pass competency tests in order to have children. Speaking as an at least fairly good father myself, some of the things I see and hear about other peoples children doing make me want to rip out some reproductive organs with my bare hands, Sin City style.

Just because you're biologically old enough to make a child doesn't mean you're anywhere near mature enough to take care of one (perfect example: my girlfriend knew a girl in high school who had 3 kids with 3 different fathers at age 15). Hell, I distinctly recall half of the girls in the class below me in high school (2008 graduating class) getting knocked up, putting pictures of themselves in the hospital up on Facebook talking about how proud they were to be moms. A week later, literally one goddamn week, new pictures go up of them in a crowded bar knocking back drinks. If you are doing this YOU ARE NOT READY TO BE A PARENT! If you dump your child off with a babysitter or relative every week so you can go get shitfaced, you are still a kid. I don't care if you're 35, you are not mature enough to be entrusted with the life of a tiny human.

You're not ready to commit to anything if you're still in that "Gotta go out every week and PARTAAAAY!!" mindset. A girl that was in my acting school was like that. She's one of 13 people on the planet that gets accepted into this program at a very well-reputed school, moves to NYC from fucking London at 19 to attend, and if she showed up at all she was either late, hungover, or on several occasions still drunk. She was thrown out of the school, $14,000 down the drain. Of course, she tried to be let back in. Her argument? "Please, I've been kicked out of every acting school I've ever been in!" Gee, I wonder why? You don't think there could be a fucking pattern developing here, do you?

Don't get me wrong, I'm not faulting anyone just for wanting to have a good time. If you want to go out every weekend and party it up, more power to you. Just don't delude yourself into thinking you're a mature adult. Hell, most college kids in America act like that and still manage to make it to class, but they're still kids. They're still more concerned with having fun than any actual concerns. Most of them have no greater worries than "Oh shit, did I forget to do my homework for Monday?" whereas I'm thinking "Oh shit, I'm entering into a career with 95% unemployment where the odds of being successful are akin to winning the lottery."

Maybe I'm being hypocritical, because those of you that know me know I moved to New York when my daughter was 6 months old to pursue my dream. But that was a long thought out family decision. I had an incredible opportunity fall into my lap, and my girlfriend told me straight up that she would leave me if I let this pass me by because of them. But I was willing to let it go to take care of my child. That's when you're ready to have children; when you're willing to do what's best for them, even if it's not what's best for you. We talk on Skype nearly every day, and I don't go more than a few months without flying home to see them. And, thankfully, now it's looking like that might have been the best thing for all of us.

TL;DR - You don't opt out of parenthood. Your age is not a factor in how mature you are. When you're 100% ready to put your kids needs and wants before your own, you're emotionally mature. If you're not, keep your fucking pants on.

 

[Fiz_The_Toaster]

... I think if parents don't go with abortion then they should look after their child. If their nature is not suitable for a child to begin with, they shouldn't have one because they're not ready 'aka' mature enough to handle it.

Now, I know some parents have excuses like financial troubles or perhaps a bad environment.. but still, I personally believe parents shouldn't give up their rights to raise a child due to just not wanting to take care of one. That's horrible, not to mention a child that was part of you, made by you... don't give up on that child unless you have a REALLY good reason to and in most cases they aren't...

I mean.. most kids don't get adopted, they end up in foster homes which have the worst conditions. Even if they're fortunate to having actually caring foster parents, decent brothers and sisters of the place.. there's just to much hardship they go through. Every, single person I know who was raised in a foster home hated it with their guts. So.. .. don't put your child through that all because you are not willing to be a parent, a responsible adult. That's all there is to it..

I couldn't agree more.

You don't opt out of parenthood just because it doesn't suit your lifestyle anymore or for whatever reason that goes into excuse territory. If someone is not ready to have kids then they shouldn't have them, it's that simple, you don't get to change your mind after the fact.

A friend of mine went through several group homes before she ended up at a home that actually gave a shit about her and her sister, and let me tell you she has some real horror stories about those homes.

Hooooo boy, here I go. This is a subject I feel strongly about, so I'm probably going to get long winded here, and likely go off track a bit. Bear with me.

Spoiler: Super ranty-rant

It's a fairly old and cliche joke, but I honestly believe that people should have to pass competency tests in order to have children. Speaking as an at least fairly good father myself, some of the things I see and hear about other peoples children doing make me want to rip out some reproductive organs with my bare hands, Sin City style.

Just because you're biologically old enough to make a child doesn't mean you're anywhere near mature enough to take care of one (perfect example: my girlfriend knew a girl in high school who had 3 kids with 3 different fathers at age 15). Hell, I distinctly recall half of the girls in the class below me in high school (2008 graduating class) getting knocked up, putting pictures of themselves in the hospital up on Facebook talking about how proud they were to be moms. A week later, literally one goddamn week, new pictures go up of them in a crowded bar knocking back drinks. If you are doing this YOU ARE NOT READY TO BE A PARENT! If you dump your child off with a babysitter or relative every week so you can go get shitfaced, you are still a kid. I don't care if you're 35, you are not mature enough to be entrusted with the life of a tiny human.

You're not ready to commit to anything if you're still in that "Gotta go out every week and PARTAAAAY!!" mindset. A girl that was in my acting school was like that. She's one of 13 people on the planet that gets accepted into this program at a very well-reputed school, moves to NYC from fucking London at 19 to attend, and if she showed up at all she was either late, hungover, or on several occasions still drunk. She was thrown out of the school, $14,000 down the drain. Of course, she tried to be let back in. Her argument? "Please, I've been kicked out of every acting school I've ever been in!" Gee, I wonder why? You don't think there could be a fucking pattern developing here, do you?

Don't get me wrong, I'm not faulting anyone just for wanting to have a good time. If you want to go out every weekend and party it up, more power to you. Just don't delude yourself into thinking you're a mature adult. Hell, most college kids in America act like that and still manage to make it to class, but they're still kids. They're still more concerned with having fun than any actual concerns. Most of them have no greater worries than "Oh shit, did I forget to do my homework for Monday?" whereas I'm thinking "Oh shit, I'm entering into a career with 95% unemployment where the odds of being successful are akin to winning the lottery."

Maybe I'm being hypocritical, because those of you that know me know I moved to New York when my daughter was 6 months old to pursue my dream. But that was a long thought out family decision. I had an incredible opportunity fall into my lap, and my girlfriend told me straight up that she would leave me if I let this pass me by because of them. But I was willing to let it go to take care of my child. That's when you're ready to have children; when you're willing to do what's best for them, even if it's not what's best for you. We talk on Skype nearly every day, and I don't go more than a few months without flying home to see them. And, thankfully, now it's looking like that might have been the best thing for all of us.

TL;DR - You don't opt out of parenthood. Your age is not a factor in how mature you are. When you're 100% ready to put your kids needs and wants before your own, you're emotionally mature. If you're not, keep your fucking pants on.

This as well.

Someone I knew in high school had a kid and still continues to party and act like a sorority girl, disgusting.

 

[arsenicCatnip]

Kind of interesting... I was just reading an article today about 'pregnancy reduction' (a.k.a. reducing a multiple pregnancy to twins/a single baby), and the reasons why people do it.

Personally, I think that people should be required to have a license before they can breed. If you're not mature enough to take care of a child ('You had a baby at FIFTEEN?'), or if you can't afford to do so, then you shouldn't be having children. You can't hand off a kid like it's a pet or a small appliance, and if you can't pay attention to your child long enough to instill some discipline you should not have a kid (this also applies to those parents who have kids, then hand them off to nannies/day cares/what have you).

Then again, I'm also of the mind that anyone who has more than two children should be forcibly sterilized. I'm deadly serious.

 

[FreakSheet]

Kind of interesting... I was just reading an article today about 'pregnancy reduction' (a.k.a. reducing a multiple pregnancy to twins/a single baby), and the reasons why people do it.

Personally, I think that people should be required to have a license before they can breed. If you're not mature enough to take care of a child ('You had a baby at FIFTEEN?'), or if you can't afford to do so, then you shouldn't be having children. You can't hand off a kid like it's a pet or a small appliance, and if you can't pay attention to your child long enough to instill some discipline you should not have a kid (this also applies to those parents who have kids, then hand them off to nannies/day cares/what have you).

Then again, I'm also of the mind that anyone who has more than two children should be forcibly sterilized. I'm deadly serious.

A license sure would be nice. But how to stop them from having kids requires Combine technology.

and a side note: I'm the third child. Just saying...

 

[gabe12301]

here's my answer: If you are unable to support children KEEP YOUR DAMNED PANTS UP

 

[arsenicCatnip]

and a side note: I'm the third child. Just saying...

Technically, so am I. My mother has an older son from her first marriage, and she and my father had an abortion about six months before I was conceived.

(My original stance was more aligned with China's old one: one child per couple.)

 

[BrassButtons]

If the parent feels that they cannot properly care for the child (and simply not wanting to would indicate to me that they could not or would not do the job properly) then of course the child should go to someone else. To say otherwise is to argue that the child should be forced to stay in a bad environment, simply because we want to punish the parent for making a bad choice. Should the parent have been more careful? Probably. But what matters is the welfare of the child.

And for those saying the parent should be more mature: sometimes saying "I can't handle this" is the most mature thing a person can do.

My answers are:

Yes
Yes
No
Unsure
No

 

[Tommeh Brownleh]

Yes, Yes, No, Yes, yes.

I don't blame people for not wanting to raise kids. The human race needs to die out and honestly, the less capable parents there are the more likely that is to happen.

 

[Farther than stars]

Should courts eliminate parental rights of parents who ask for it without question?
Is it morally justifiable that a parent would give up parental rights in exchange for not having to pay child support?
Should the consent of the other parent be required for one to give up their rights to a child?
Should a parent be able to terminate their rights no matter what age the child is?
If giving a child up for adoption requires the consent of both mother and father, should abortion be given the same consideration?

My answers in order: Yes, Yes, No, Maybe, No.

- No, and that will always be no, no matter what your proposal is. Courts exist to specifically exercise judgement over matters which fall in grey areas of the law. Law is the final say which cannot be legally altered, but courts should always have freedom to decide how those laws are applied.

-No, it's basic greed, plain and simple. Sure, it's justifiable as a need for survival, but it's not "morally" justifiable.

-Yes, if you get into something together in the first place, then you have to sort it out together as well. There is no honour to be found in the coward's way out. And above you all, a child needs two parents. It's bad enough that some don't get that because of involentary causes.

-No, but this question is more of a mixture between the first and the third question, so I'll refer to those. As for the age thing, I don't really see its relevance. A child being abondonned by a/its parent(s) is going to have negative consequences, no matter what the age.

Yes, but then I'm against abortion, so the more barriers you create to halt it, the better, as far as I'm concerned.

And just as I would have expected, your answers and mine as completely diametrically opposed. But like I said, it's a small wonder, since if you come up with an issue like this, it's usually going to be about the parents more than the child.

P.S. Of course they're in order. I wasn't going to be answering them back to front now, was I?

 

[Farther than stars]

Yes, Yes, No, Yes, yes.

I don't blame people for not wanting to raise kids. The human race needs to die out and honestly, the less capable parents there are the more likely that is to happen.

That's a very nihilistic approach. Don't you think that the same effort it would take to exterminate humans would be better spent trying to improve the human race instead? =/

 

[Mordwyl]

If they didn't want the child why have it in the first place? This is a freaking HUMAN BEING we're talking about. YOU are one, for crying out loud.

No.
No.
If both parents are available, yes.
No.
I'm anti-abortion, for the reason explained above.