Original storytelling in Mass Effect and gaming in general (SPOILERS INSIDE)

[teh_gunslinger]

Inside the spoiler tag is my rambling thoughts about originality in storytelling.

Spoiler: I slapped it all in spoiler tags.

I just finished Mass Effect today and I found the game in general to be a rather good experience. It was better than a lot of the games I?ve played recently. But I couldn?t help thinking, while I was playing it, that the Reapers reminded me very much of the Inhibitors from Alistair Reynolds Revelation Space series.

In that the Inhibitors is a ?race? of sentient machines that periodically rids the galaxy of advanced organic life. In the books they operate on a timescale of millions of years. When a race becomes advanced enough it usually activates traps that call the Inhibitors who then start the great galactic tidying up. The motives for these repeating genocides are actually to preserve life. Because of a coming collision between the Milky Way and another galaxy the machines want to keep life down so it can survive the clash. Something like that at least. I haven?t read it in a while.
Now I don?t know what motives the Reapers have for doing their thing, but they (at least judging from Sovereign) seem to do it from other reasons than the Inhibitors. I don?t know if anyone has read Revelation Space or if anyone agrees with me?

What it made me think about was this: is it a problem that the plot seems so identical to the books (and I?m sure Reynolds wasn?t the first to do it either)? Mass Effect is one of the better games I?ve played and I enjoyed the story very much. I don?t mind that I essentially already know the story. When we gamers crave originality, do we mean original as in ?completely new? or just a new take on it? Because, when I think about it, it?s almost impossible to be truly original, if at all possible. One of my other favourite games these last years is BioShock, but that is hardly an original story. You need not look far to see where it comes from. But does that detract from the game? I think not? Most stories have been told for thousands of years. Just slide around the details. What do we actually want?
We have all (or at least a lot of us) moaned about lazy storytelling and I think we had a point. But where is the difference between inspiration and thematic transfer and outright ripping of a story and slapping new graphics on it?

Any thoughts on this? I know the whole topic is not really new, but it's been a lot on my mind lately while I've been reading up for my thesis. But if it's redundant, just let it die away.

If this has been done before I apologize. I couldn?t find anything in my search, but I may suck at searching.

 

[Lukeje]

You may want to put a short spoiler-free summary for people that don't want to click the spoiler.

But on-topic, I don't really see what difference it makes. There are only a limited number of plots that one can use, so the story will have been written somewhere before.

 

[Ace of Spades]

No matter how original an idea is, there will always be someone saying that it ripped something off.

 

[Psypherus]

Don't be fooled into thinking any ideas are original. Whatever it is, it's been done before.

 

[Aardvark]

And if it is entirely original, half the internet will draw tenuous parallels to the other great works of Fiction in an attempt to increase the size of their eWangs.

 

[captain awesome 12]

No matter how original an idea is, there will always be someone saying that it ripped something off.

Exactly, I mean someone said the crossbow in Bioshock must have been copied off of the one from Half Life 2. Despite the fact that they're completely different weapons.

 

[Ace of Spades]

No matter how original an idea is, there will always be someone saying that it ripped something off.

Exactly, I mean someone said the crossbow in Bioshock must have been copied off of the one from Half Life 2. Despite the fact that they're completely different weapons.

Thanks for the example.

Don't be fooled into thinking any ideas are original. Whatever it is, it's been done before.

Spoken like a true deja-nazi.

 

[teh_gunslinger]

No matter how original an idea is, there will always be someone saying that it ripped something off.

Exactly, I mean someone said the crossbow in Bioshock must have been copied off of the one from Half Life 2. Despite the fact that they're completely different weapons.

And it's not like HL2 holds the patent on crossbows. They are a bit older than that.

Yay! Finally someone was able to gather up my views and right them down on the internet for all to see!

I'm happy to be of service.

On topic: It seems like most people think that it's close to impossible to be original. And I agree.
In the case of ME I was really happy that humans for once was the race that the aliens were somewhat nervous about. Not because I'm all for us dominating aliens, but because it was something, if not new, then at least different. I think that was my favourite thing about the game, even if it wasn't the main plot (I still think it was very important for the game though).

The Reapers are, I guess you could say, the story about fighting an enemy there is basically different than one self. It's us and them. And that's a theme that has been going on forever. The aliens might be different but at least they're organic, whereas the synths are the soulless enemy. (Compare to the Persian War: The damn Thebans may be different, but we're all Greeks. The Persians on the other hand, well, the bastards!)
And there is nothing wrong with telling that story again and again. It's a damn good story. I just was struck in ME how very similar the specific enemy was and it got me thinking on where the line is.

Gah, I'm not sure I make sense anymore. Sorry.

 

[elemenetal150]

I can see the similarities between the two just having finished the series myself but I think that we have yet to see all of the variations between the two as the game series is not complete yet

 

[captain awesome 12]

No matter how original an idea is, there will always be someone saying that it ripped something off.

Exactly, I mean someone said the crossbow in Bioshock must have been copied off of the one from Half Life 2. Despite the fact that they're completely different weapons.

And it's not like HL2 holds the patent on crossbows. They are a bit older than that.

It's not like they were created in the Middle Ages right? VALVe those plagiarizing bastards! They must have stolen their idea from 13th Century Europe!

 

[teh_gunslinger]

I can see the similarities between the two just having finished the series myself but I think that we have yet to see all of the variations between the two as the game series is not complete yet

This I completely agree with. Especially I am interested in the Reapers motives.

And I'm in no way bitching about ME. It just got me thinking and created the critical mass for actually writing a post about it.

No matter how original an idea is, there will always be someone saying that it ripped something off.

Exactly, I mean someone said the crossbow in Bioshock must have been copied off of the one from Half Life 2. Despite the fact that they're completely different weapons.

And it's not like HL2 holds the patent on crossbows. They are a bit older than that.

It's not like they were created in the Middle Ages right? VALVe those plagiarizing bastards! They must have stolen their idea from 13th Century Europe!

Nah, I think 13th Century Europe stole it from the Romans.

 

[cherimoya]

i'll just state my belief that no idea is original and reply from there. as a writer and painter i'm aware that creative endeavors dont happen in a vacuum, just like children dont grow up without being molded, shaped and manipulated by their environments and the people around them, so do creative ideas, stories and images.

i'll say that its not the idea that matters, but how you express it.

(that's where originality comes in to the creative process. the experiences that made you *you* will also make your retelling of old stories stand out from previous tellings. your experiences and interests and knowledge will bring certain details of the story to the fore and push others back).

a great example of this is shakespeare, and how many of his re-tellings have been successfully retold, reshaped, reinvented and "ripped off" in excellent works since his death.

the fact that kurosawa's "throne of blood" is shakespeare's "macbeth" and "macbeth" is itself a fictionalization of parts of holinshed's "chronicles..." doesn't diminish it's telling in any way.

i think narrative is different in games, tho. a game is an experience the player actively engages in, unlike movies, books or plays. the active nature of having to work through challenges to get to see a game's entire story probably moves the focus from the story to the act of playing that story.

maybe we're just more forgiving of plot holes, bad dialogue, cliches and characterizations in games than in other mediums because we're always doing something else (playing) at the time?

i'd also like to point out there are a lot of plot holes, bad dialogues, cliches and characterizations in most movies, novels and plays, too. do we expect too much from gaming narrative because of it's position as the least "respected" of the mediums mentioned here?

i dont remember people analyzing the originality and narratives of too many sylvester stallone (etc) movies when they came out yaknow?

they were what they were and were accepted for that.

 

[teh_gunslinger]

Spoiler: Snip

i'll just state my belief that no idea is original and reply from there. as a writer and painter i'm aware that creative endeavors dont happen in a vacuum, just like children dont grow up without being molded, shaped and manipulated by their environments and the people around them, so do creative ideas, stories and images.

i'll say that its not the idea that matters, but how you express it.

(that's where originality comes in to the creative process. the experiences that made you *you* will also make your retelling of old stories stand out from previous tellings. your experiences and interests and knowledge will bring certain details of the story to the fore and push others back).

a great example of this is shakespeare, and how many of his re-tellings have been successfully retold, reshaped, reinvented and "ripped off" in excellent works since his death.

the fact that kurosawa's "throne of blood" is shakespeare's "macbeth" and "macbeth" is itself a fictionalization of parts of holinshed's "chronicles..." doesn't diminish it's telling in any way.

i think narrative is different in games, tho. a game is an experience the player actively engages in, unlike movies, books or plays. the active nature of having to work through challenges to get to see a game's entire story probably moves the focus from the story to the act of playing that story.

maybe we're just more forgiving of plot holes, bad dialogue, cliches and characterizations in games than in other mediums because we're always doing something else (playing) at the time?

i'd also like to point out there are a lot of plot holes, bad dialogues, cliches and characterizations in most movies, novels and plays, too. do we expect too much from gaming narrative because of it's position as the least "respected" of the mediums mentioned here?

i dont remember people analyzing the originality and narratives of too many sylvester stallone (etc) movies when they came out yaknow?

they were what they were and were accepted for that.

I came across this [http://www.mikebrotherton.com/?p=1024] tonight. He talk a bit about this, including the thing about creative vacuums.

On the subject of Shakespeare I'll say this: I'll always welcome a retelling of Macbeth or King Lear or any other play. As long as the retelling serves a point that is. It must do something new with the subject matter, else it has no reason for being made.

And you're right. I never expected a lot from a Stallone flick. But I would like at least some of my games to be better than a Stallone flick. There is always a need for games and film like that, but there should also be told stories that matter.

 

[SteveDave]

Nothing can be completely original but the way they present an old idea can be.

 

[More Fun To Compute]

One way to think about it is to compare expecting new creative material in games is like expecting the economy to grow year on year. It's completely unreasonable and probably a mass delusion or fraud but if it stops working then game over, things get ugly. Why buy new games if they have no perceived value over the games I already have.

Mass Effect had a bit of a problem with originality from the point of conception as it is both a "Bioware RPG" and an attempt to recreate the feeling of a lost 1980's science fiction movie. They actively reject anything progressive and new as an attempt to go back to when things were good. Coincidentally things were best in their childhoods when they were new to them...

 

[cherimoya]

i'm reading that link in the other tab but i wanted to jot this down while it was still fresh in my mind:

in the last few months i've been playing a lot of fallout 3 and both stalker games and the three of them have made me do a lot of thinking about what i want / expect / desire regarding narrative in games.

fallout 3 has a rather forgettable main quest with an almost comically nonsensical ending third. both stalker games have *theoretically* interesting plots but only if you read WELL outside of the crude lines the games are written in. i'd go as far as saying that all three of these games have main quests or plots that i go out of my way to avoid while playing the games.

but thats what's been fascinating me in the last few weeks.

the sense of exploration, the immersion into relatively chaotic game / world systems and the running narrative i create for my "characters" while playing these games is what i seem to find mesmerizing. to juxtapose, i played through mass effect last summer and loved the story (parts reminded me of babylon 5's story arc), but i *really* disliked playing the game.

i found it strange that an epic space opera with an entire galaxy as it's playing map felt so confined and small while stalker and fallout 3 take place in tiny geographic areas and yet feel so much more open ended and expansive.

to close this blurt up - the other night i was walking from canterbury commons back to megaton with a crippled leg. my character had escaped raiders badly wounded with a crap-ton of gear on his back. the walk back (i play with modified stimpacks that dont heal crippled limbs, only doctors can do that etc) to megaton was tense, gripping and full of my own narratives of desperate survival, fear and the idea of a nice payday if he survived to sell his stuff to the traders.

situations like these have started to change my idea of what "narrative" means within games, i guess. the creation of coherent and fully explorable game worlds with a logical set of systems that you can understand and then immerse yourself into seems to be capable of being as compelling if not more so than a traditional, well constructed narrative.

*goes back to reading that link.

 

[teh_gunslinger]

i'm reading that link in the other tab but i wanted to jot this down while it was still fresh in my mind:

in the last few months i've been playing a lot of fallout 3 and both stalker games and the three of them have made me do a lot of thinking about what i want / expect / desire regarding narrative in games.

fallout 3 has a rather forgettable main quest with an almost comically nonsensical ending third. both stalker games have *theoretically* interesting plots but only if you read WELL outside of the crude lines the games are written in. i'd go as far as saying that all three of these games have main quests or plots that i go out of my way to avoid while playing the games.

but thats what's been fascinating me in the last few weeks.

the sense of exploration, the immersion into relatively chaotic game / world systems and the running narrative i create for my "characters" while playing these games is what i seem to find mesmerizing. to juxtapose, i played through mass effect last summer and loved the story (parts reminded me of babylon 5's story arc), but i *really* disliked playing the game.

i found it strange that an epic space opera with an entire galaxy as it's playing map felt so confined and small while stalker and fallout 3 take place in tiny geographic areas and yet feel so much more open ended and expansive.

to close this blurt up - the other night i was walking from canterbury commons back to megaton with a crippled leg. my character had escaped raiders badly wounded with a crap-ton of gear on his back. the walk back (i play with modified stimpacks that dont heal crippled limbs, only doctors can do that etc) to megaton was tense, gripping and full of my own narratives of desperate survival, fear and the idea of a nice payday if he survived to sell his stuff to the traders.

situations like these have started to change my idea of what "narrative" means within games, i guess. the creation of coherent and fully explorable game worlds with a logical set of systems that you can understand and then immerse yourself into seems to be capable of being as compelling if not more so than a traditional, well constructed narrative.

*goes back to reading that link.

I agree on your thoughts about Mass Effect feeling "small" or confined. Outside the main story there is not much to do. I think I sold some stuff only because it was easier than making it to gel. I never bought anything nor did I need to. The story was great, but I felt I had to fight to get myself to playing the game. I just didn't like it apart from the story. But that really did make up for it to the degree where ME is one of the best games I've played in a while.

On your thoughts on creating your own narratives, well, I do that as well. I think there was an issue about it in the Escapist not long ago.

Spoiler: Random story about self made narratives here

One of my best experiences with that was Medieval Total War where I really felt for my poor French king. His only sons were killed in a battle for Isle de France (I was really in trouble against the Germans) and he was an old man with little chance of getting a new grown heir before his death, be it of old age or in battle. MTW has no narrative to speak of, but I made one and gave my attempt to conquer Europe a puropse and my kings personality. Old Luis turned out to be the last of his line and died as a lonely failed king in Paris. But his father, whose name escapes me, was a completely different guy. He constantly conquered new lands and dabbled in war and diplomacy. His glorious reign came to an abrupt end one fateful day near Calais though where he got hit by an arrow fired by an English peasant. So it goes. Now that was a fun and open game.
I sometimes wish I had chronicled that Royal house.