Overly Attached Anime Girlfriend

[Dizchu]

Personally I like girls that have similar interests to me and appreciate my presence but have enough trust in me to not to get paranoid when I'm not around.

So... not a lot like any girls in any hetero romance anime.

Yuri seems to deal with this a lot better, which is convenient for me because lesbian relationships are what I can actually relate to. Unfortunately the genre suffers from the same kind of fanservice many other genres do.[footnote]But if there were to be a lesbian harem anime I'd be all over that. I have no shame. Or standards.[/footnote]

Most anime sucks, I'm sorry.

 

[Sung-Hwan]

Repetition to the point of cliche, like most anime. Miyazaki said it best when he said that the people making anime today only study other anime instead of real people. So of course the same stereotypes will be driven into the ground, especially romantic ones.

Also, taking Miyazaki's word on the anime industry's state also gives me bad vibes. Don't forget this IS the man that makes his success to an audience that is too uninformed/inexperienced of a medium, and he's outdone by Takahata.

There is a massive difference in perception between myself and what can be considered your average/casual anime fan, so that is why I am imposing some authority here. I usually don't mind, but sometimes I can get confrontational when frustrated with these sort of topics.

First of all, its only your opinion if Miyazaki is outdone by Takahata. Personally, I don't agree with that, but whatever. How exactly is Miyazaki making his success off of ignorant people? He's the Walt Disney of Japan, that's where he does most of his business. He's certainly the most successful anime director reaching out to an international audience, and I'd say that he is definitely more successful than Takahata in that regard.

I don't see why you feel the need to impose "authority" here. Its not an attack against you if I don't the cartoons you do like. But the way I see it, the anime industry is built upon ripping itself off and repetition.

From the perspective of someone who's seen every Ghibli film except Marnie, and engaged in active discussion about Hayao.

RESP: First of all, its only your opinion if Miyazaki is outdone by Takahata.
A: Not really, I think its fact among many in the same boat as me, and...

Q: How exactly is Miyazaki making his success off of ignorant people?
A: Long story short: The entirety of his Western following and core Japanese audience are not familiar with what is good or bad in the anime medium. That is why they are easily deceived into believing the plot-hole riddled Spirited Away is Ghibli's one, true masterpiece. His films are good for children in mind, but from a critical standpoint? No. I could sit around and attack Totoro and Ponyo for being so soulless, shallow, and simplistic, but that's not the audience these films reach out for. When Miyazaki tries to make a more serious film is when he falls off the map. The Wind Rises is arguably his best film in this regard, but movies like Spirited Away, Howl (this especially), and Laputa all come off as average or grating.

RESP: He's certainly the most successful anime director reaching out to an international audience, and I'd say that he is definitely more successful than Takahata in that regard.
A: Which is a damn shame since there are directors far more talented than Miyazaki now, but their films don't grip the mainstream audience that Miyazaki does. Hosoda Mamoru and Satoshi Kon (Rest in Peace) for example.

RESP: I don't see why you feel the need to impose "authority" here.

I am not bragging, but I think my knowledge of the anime medium is certainly a cut above the rest at this point. That is why I get frustrated when I see things that I find wrong.

 

[Fat Hippo]

Yeah, haven't gotten around the The Wind Rises yet, I knew Anno was a part of it, but I'm starting to think I may wait for the dub if he's a voice in it...(I don't have much respect for the guy as a creator). But I was sure it was Miyazaki saying it himself and not just Ghibli. I'll have to go look around some again looks like

I don't really know much about Anno as a creator (I consider Neon Genesis Evangelion interesting, at the very least) but he voices the protagonist in The Wind Rises, and it doesn't fit AT ALL in my opinion. I don't usually watch dubs, but I'm gonna have to try with this movie, because his voice bothered me so much. It was just...weird.

 

[Lilani]

As others have said the first three (two top, bottom left) are simply exaggerations, but personally I think the psychopath is an adaptation of a male love interest you sometimes see. The "Phantom of the Opera" type--the one so in love and so desperate there is no depth they won't sink to in order express that love and make the person theirs.

 

[Casual Shinji]

From the perspective of someone who's seen every Ghibli film except Marnie, and engaged in active discussion about Hayao.

RESP: First of all, its only your opinion if Miyazaki is outdone by Takahata.
A: Not really, I think its fact among many in the same boat as me, and...

Q: How exactly is Miyazaki making his success off of ignorant people?
A: Long story short: The entirety of his Western following and core Japanese audience are not familiar with what is good or bad in the anime medium. That is why they are easily deceived into believing the plot-hole riddled Spirited Away is Ghibli's one, true masterpiece. His films are good for children in mind, but from a critical standpoint? No. I could sit around and attack Totoro and Ponyo for being so soulless, shallow, and simplistic, but that's not the audience these films reach out for. When Miyazaki tries to make a more serious film is when he falls off the map. The Wind Rises is arguably his best film in this regard, but movies like Spirited Away, Howl (this especially), and Laputa all come off as average or grating.

RESP: He's certainly the most successful anime director reaching out to an international audience, and I'd say that he is definitely more successful than Takahata in that regard.
A: Which is a damn shame since there are directors far more talented than Miyazaki now, but their films don't grip the mainstream audience that Miyazaki does. Hosoda Mamoru and Satoshi Kon (Rest in Peace) for example.

RESP: I don't see why you feel the need to impose "authority" here.

I am not bragging, but I think my knowledge of the anime medium is certainly a cut above the rest at this point. That is why I get frustrated when I see things that I find wrong.

Gee whiz Mr. Expert on all that is Anime, thanks for clearing that up for us. If it wasn't for you, us nincompoops would be forever duped into liking stupid things by that incompetent and overrated Hayao Miyazaki. I sure won't let that happen again.

Seriously dude, get off that high horse, take it around back, and blow its brains out, please.

 

[144_v1legacy]

Yeah, this isn't actually such a toughie to figure out. In anime, as in any TV show, the hope is to appeal to a larger audience. In Japan, the "Otaku" (a lot of Escapists) is a higher percentage of the market. These girlfriends are designed to appeal to them. And they do - we shy nerds who have difficulty talking to girls in our HS days, or whatever, what a fantasy it would be to have girlfriends so attached that it's a problem. Imagine a girl liking you being a problem. That's the mindset that goes into making these characters. You'll notice that it's usually only less-good animes that have these sorts of characters, and use them as a crutch to get viewership as a substitute for having interesting writing.

 

[Sung-Hwan]

@Shinji

He is overrated, annoyingly egotistical, but not incompetent by any means. Like I said, he makes good family films that lure in mainstream audiences, and I at least gave Kiki the highest props; I do not like his ego trip statements on an industry that is moving along nicely though. This is from the perspective of someone who has seen every Ghibli film (except Marnie), so naturally, I'll have deeper insight and thoughts into the workings of Ghibli as a studio than someone who just watched Spirited Away and be done with it.

 

[VikingKing]

Here are several reasons why these sorts of characters exist. Their relative truth varies.

- Comedies tend to have characters who embody the worst aspects of humankind.
- Represents both the desires and fears connected to companionship in all of us.
- The need to keep an audience's interest results in Flanderized clones of popular characters/jokes.
- Keeps a relationship from progressing too quickly, allowing shows to prolong the drama.
- It's cheaper to use shallow and one-dimensional characters, since you don't have to pay the writers much.
- Mary Sues have taken over Japan from behind the scenes and seek to promote their way of life.
- Women enjoy the idea that for all their flaws, if they keep pursuing love, it'll eventually be theirs.
- Japan's men are all secretly masochistic and are just too stubborn to admit it.
- These characters seem like they're everywhere because they stand out the most, overshadowing more sensible characters, which results in the age-old confusion that being popular makes you good/interesting/better.

 

[Casual Shinji]

@Shinji

He is overrated, annoyingly egotistical, but not incompetent by any means. Like I said, he makes good family films that lure in mainstream audiences, and I at least gave Kiki the highest props; I do not like his ego trip statements on an industry that is moving along nicely though. This is from the perspective of someone who has seen every Ghibli film (except Marnie), so naturally, I'll have deeper insight and thoughts into the workings of Ghibli as a studio than someone who just watched Spirited Away and be done with it.

Uhm, then by that definition, Hayao Miyazaki with his decades of experience in the anime industry and with Ghibli has a far deeper insight into anime than you, and thus knows exactly what he's talking about.

Like I said, he makes good family films that lure in mainstream audiences

And again with the condescending... Bravo!

 

[Sung-Hwan]

And if I'll add one more thing, I recall someone telling me that Rebellion was actually nominated for an Oscar, but was dismissed for "being for kids" while Wind Rises got a free pass.

It's another reason why I say non-anime/JP Western people have a radically different view on things than someone like myself. By radically different, I really just mean they only know Hayao and don't care for anything else. And no, I'm not being condescending, it's fact that Miyazaki's films lure in Western audiences due to their nature. Takahata's films, on the other hand, don't. When I went to go see Kaguya the minute it dropped in theaters, I was one of three people viewing the movie.

 

[DEAD34345]

Women have been considered disparagingly in Japan for as long as the Japanese know how to write and tell tales. -snip-

As Zontar said, all of that applies equally to the West. Eve tempts Adam into eating the forbidden fruit after all, and all western culture is essentially built upon christianity. It's strange how such different cultures totally isolated from one another seem to have developed the same weird demonisation of women parallel to one another though.

OT: They're just tropes, I doubt they come from anything in particular you could pin down. Every culture has their own character archetypes and themes that pop up again and again, and many of them are even shared between totally different cultures. Who knows what ancient stories and events still resonate in the backs of our minds even to this very day, driving our actions and the stories we create.

I actually don't mind this particular trope, possibly because I haven't really watched enough anime for it to become annoying yet. The one that really gets on my nerves though is the disturbingly naive and "innocent" girl that shows up all the time, and which the Japanese seem to see as extremely attractive. It just creeps me out. At least the overly attached psychotic/annoying/sadistic/stalker girls seem to have actual personalities and goals of their own.

 

[Casual Shinji]

And if I'll add one more thing, I recall someone telling me that Rebellion was actually nominated for an Oscar, but was dismissed for "being for kids" while Wind Rises got a free pass.

It's another reason why I say non-anime/JP Western people have a radically different view on things than someone like myself. By radically different, I really just mean they only know Hayao and don't care for anything else. And no, I'm not being condescending, it's fact that Miyazaki's films lure in Western audiences due to their nature. Takahata's films, on the other hand, don't. When I went to go see Kaguya the minute it dropped in theaters, I was one of three people viewing the movie.

By what manner do they "lure in" Western audiences? Is it because it has Miyazaki's name on it, making people think 'Hey, he's that guy who made those other movies I liked; I'll check out this one, too'? Because that's not luring in. 'Luring in' means drawing in the attention of someone or something under false pretenses, and Miyazaki's movies never pretended to be anything other than what they are.

And what's your point with Kaguya, that Takahata's movies are less popular than Miyazaki's? Well, that's life. Some people are popular, and some ain't. I've seen more anime than I can count and I like Miyazaki better, too. Does that mean my experience watching anime makes my opinion regarding the quality of Miyazaki the definitive one? No, I like what I like, and so does everybody else. There's no pedigree in personal taste.

 

[Sung-Hwan]

Because Spirited Away alone is engraved into Western mainstream media, and Hayao is just roped into the ride. That is pretty much how his films lure viewers: If Miyazaki did Spirited Away, surely his next film will be amazing without consequence. And yes, Takahata's films are not going to draw in big audiences, but they still edge Miyazaki's craft; Grave of the Fireflies is the best film from Ghibli IMO. Only Yesterday and Kaguya are also fantastic works of art.

Also, regarding your comment on Miyazaki having more experience than me...that depends on what fields we are talking about. Miyazaki is a film animator and director, so he undoubtedly has more experience than me with animated movies, but I am also quite diverse in my interests. In addition to actively being involved with anime, I commit plenty of time to visual novels, and play specific JP games of interest (Final Fantasy), so I probably know more than Miyazaki in those fields. It all depends really.

Anyways, feel free to reply, but I generally don't get into arguments so this'll be the last one from me. I will read what you post next though.

 

[Redryhno]

@Sung-Hwan: You are aware that all of your stuff is simply opinion right? Miyazaki makes good family/fantasy/kids movies(screw Ponyo though, that entire story is just boring as all hell, his weakest work as far as I'm concerned), I don't think anybody's ever disputed that. But just because YOU think Takahata is better doesn't mean he is.

I've also spent alot of time with VNs, some JRPG's, and been watching anime since I was a kid(like most people here I'd say), so I'll go and say that I have just as much, if not more experience with anime-related media than you and say that Takahata is about the same as Miyazaki, but Miyazaki wins out because he'd had more of an impact on the medium as as whole than Takahata.

 

[Sung-Hwan]

@Sung-Hwan: You are aware that all of your stuff is simply opinion right? Miyazaki makes good family/fantasy/kids movies(screw Ponyo though, that entire story is just boring as all hell, his weakest work as far as I'm concerned), I don't think anybody's ever disputed that. But just because YOU think Takahata is better doesn't mean he is.

I've also spent alot of time with VNs, some JRPG's, and been watching anime since I was a kid(like most people here I'd say), so I'll go and say that I have just as much, if not more experience with anime-related media than you and say that Takahata is about the same as Miyazaki, but Miyazaki wins out because he'd had more of an impact on the medium as as whole than Takahata.

Oh yeah, and that is why I normally don't get involved in disputes or arguments, but I thought it would be interesting to discuss for a change. I pretty much live by the golden rule of individuality, so I rarely even get to speak what's on my mind. Doesn't mean every now and then I don't get upset when I hear something I don't agree with, like generalizing stereotypes or tropes.

If you're as experienced as you say, you should surely know the grating feeling from hearing a random person say something along the lines of "anime is for girls/kids" with no description or context.

 

[Eclipse Dragon]

snip

Perhaps, some people don't watch Miyazaki's films only for the story. Perhaps maybe that's not even the drawing point. I give you Grave of the Fireflies was excellent, but after watching it, I wanted to watch Totoro, because there is nothing to it, it's brain cleansing cuteness and happiness. I feel the same way after binging Shin Megami Tensei, I wanted to play Ni No Kuni, because it was less heavy. The main drawing point to Miyazaki's films for me anyway, was never the story, it's the setting, the aesthetic and the whimsy.

Grave of the Fireflies and Totoro showed as a double feature for that exact reason. Miyazaki and Takahata compliment each other, and we wouldn't have Studio Ghibli without either one of them.

 

[Redryhno]

Oh yeah, and that is why I normally don't get involved in disputes or arguments, but I thought it would be interesting to discuss for a change. I pretty much live by the golden rule of individuality, so I rarely even get to speak what's on my mind. Doesn't mean every now and then I don't get upset when I hear something I don't agree with, like generalizing stereotypes or tropes.

If you're as experienced as you say, you should surely know the grating feeling from hearing a random person say something along the lines of "anime is for girls/kids" with no description or context.

What's your point? You hear that and you either throw one of a hundred anime that came out this year alone that destroys that thought at the person, or you go about your life and ignore it because there's no point arguing with someone that doesn't know what they're talking about and has no desire to learn about it. It's alot easier to just forget it happened than it is to let it grate on you after all.

 

[Jiggle Counter]

Wow, so none of you people dated before...
Yes those types exist, not in caricature form (which should be obvious to anyone who comprehends entertainment does not equal real life), but they do exist. Goes for men also, not just a woman thing.

Usually comes in smaller or greater doses with people who push for relationships right from the start rather then trying to know anyone.

Stalker - Never one that followed me behind trees. Usually facebook, or Myspace back in the day. Going through all my pictures, going through my friends list, etc.

Don't all girlfriends do that? Or have I just dated the ones who've been wronged in some way... Regardless, I deleted my facebook almost 2 years ago, so I can no longer tell if the girl I'm dating now would do that.

Annoying - Hmmm... Anime annoying is over the top, I've never had anything that was over the top. Usually stuff like loud snoring. But I've never had painful glomps, or screaming happy crazy, incessant prodding etc.

Sadist - The closest I've had was one girl who loved scratches, biting, and later choking. First time I walked away from a girl.

Psychopath - Passive-aggressive death threats towards the in-laws, but no actual killing.



The fact that there's quite a lot of anime out there who have these overly attached girlfriend traits, makes me wonder wtf...

I mean, they're all the worst things to desire from a girl... Is desire the right word? I mean they're meant to be a male's fantasy, aren't they?

When I look at all of them as a collective, they just look like someone who wants a girlfriend who will never leave them to the point of obsession, fight for them to the point of murder, and the fact that she never questions it, she's just an unstoppable force.

Is a girl like that desirable?

To me, god no. But she DOES make a cheap and easy conflict for a story.

 

[Depulcator]

My waifu say's I'm a sadist, After looking at his back I find it hard to disagree. Serves him right though, with all the noises he makes me make.

 

[cleric of the order]

-snip-

now this is interesting, From what I understand there is quite a large number of cultures that attribute the female to the Chthonic but this is the most...different one I've read that does so. I it sort of reminds me of eve herself, also a bit of the lyre of Orpheus.