Overpopulation

[solidstatemind]

Though organic farming is better for the environment surrounding. We can have a much more stable system of farming without the need of genetic modifications and chemical sprays.

Please go view Season 7, Episode 6 of Penn & Teller's "Bullshit" to see some actual science applied to the question of Organic foods. I will not burden you with my opinion- I will just say that you should remember: the organic farmers employ marketing agencies as well.

Wouldn't one of the first steps be for the US to stop consuming so much? It's been a long time since I looked at the numbers, but if I remember correctly, 5% of the world's population (assuming 6 billion total and 300 million US) consumes 25% of the world's "output." Sounds odd to me... sadly my computer and I aren't doing anything to remedy that.

This is incredibly misleading. I think that if you look at both sides of the ledger, you would find that the US actually produces more than it consumes in terms of food, medicines, technology, research, building materials, and other essentials for life. The consumption is only a deficit in regards to energy... and I think we've all acknowledged that the US needs to have a more responsible energy policy moving forward.

But, again, I encourage you to do your own research. Don't rely on what I tell you, and certainly don't rely on those people who have a vested interest in promoting one side of an argument. Look at both sides, try to get as many facts as you can/are willing to invest the effort to, and then use that grey goo in your noggin to come to your own conclusion.

OT:
As someone mentioned above: The Earth Abides. We cannot destroy it- we will only succeed in destroying ourselves. Don't worry about it so much. People have been thinking about the possibility of a Malthusian Population Crash for coming up on 200 years now. (I strongly urge you to at least parse this [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Robert_Malthus] if you are at all interested in the subject.) And although we've had many doomcriers, we're still chugging along. That is not to say it won't happen. In fact, I think it's only a matter of time before a virus gets out of control and causes widespread fatalities in the sick and the weak. Swine-Flu, Bird-Flu, SARS, MSRA, etc. all seem to be bright red alarm-lights telling us that we are ill-prepared for another Pandemic like the one of 1918. You want to have some sleepless nights thinking about it, I strongly suggest you read The Coming Plague, by Laurie Garrett [http://www.amazon.com/Coming-Plague-Emerging-Diseases-Balance/dp/0140250913/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1275984768&sr=8-1], which I had to read for a graduate class on the sociological aspects of disease back in '95. Very detailed account of not only what could happen, but why it probably will happen, given all the issues with germ control world-wide.

 

[samstewiefisher]

We are an endangered species because there are too many of us, and we keep making more.[HEADING=1]Stop making more![/HEADING] Some simple math. If on average every human being consumes X, than X times our population is our consumption. .

Im afraid not buddy. The cosumption of western people is far higher than those in the developing world. Your simple math is too simple.

"Western countries actually do pretty good when it comes to 'New people brought into the world' opposed to the 'People taken out of the world' scale"
Someone above said this and im afraid its not true. Were in a situation where the birth rate is too low but people live longer which creats an older population ie. one where not enough people work to support the elderly.

Im afraid we need to sort out third world countries. Gradually reduce aid (which is inefficient) and teach them to be more self dependant. Having many kids is associated with people of a low socio-economic status. I dont no if that would be enough, but other than capping birth rates it a tricky problem to deal with.

 

[Manicotti]

You know who had birth control policies?
the communists. and they killed over 100 million people
thats 100,000,000
And for those of you who dont believe the Commi's were all that bad
the NSDAP used a little thing called Eugenics to regualte who had children.
NSDAP standing for National Socialist German Workers Party. or in laymens terms NAZI's
Basically if you regualte procreation, you have to regulate who has the children. So you start labeling people as fit for procreation or unfit.
Dude if you dont believe it can happen youre wrong because its already happened.
Dont let history repeat itself.

I can't see a damn thing wrong with telling some people that they're wasting space and shouldn't be allowed to take up even more by producing perverse and malnourished offspring outside the national budget.

The fun thing about communism and democracy is that they're functionally identical in their purest forms. Congrats, Mr. Godwin, you win tonight's "Misinformed Paranoid Leftist Bullshit Rant" Award. Go to the back of the oven and collect your cookie.

 

[zehydra]

Expand into space or kill ourselves.


Aight, which one is it gonna be?

 

[InconceivableTruth]

Support anti-natalism (no more begetting children):

http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/06/06/should-this-be-the-last-generation/

I recommend listening to some of Lovelock's recent interviews also.

I also wrote about exponential increase in an economic context:
http://phoenixicsepehr.blogspot.com/2009/11/our-future-demise-compilation-of.html

 

[samstewiefisher]

For a while now I've maintained that there ought to be a second holocaust (in which the word holocaust would be an understatement) based on levels of intellect and cognitive capabilities once inferior farmers, factory workers or pilots are unnecessary. The goal wouldn't be a super-race, but rather a perfect society capable of perpetuating its existence without things like unnecessary emotions, ethics, or the needs of inferior life to hinder the acquisition of knowledge.

I think the most effective method to bring this about would be for a small group of a dozen or so people, who are the most intelligent in the world, to evaluate potential citizens until there are enough people to inhabit a building. This first building can be built anywhere, next to an airport where supplies and new members are shipped in. This is the headquarters, where the original members micromanage every inch of what happens from then on. They make a school, where every member of the society is first taught the new, limitless language (similar to lojban), as well as exactly what was happening in the new society, and what the goal of the organisation is. They are completely brought up to speed with scientific and mathematical advances in subjects like Physics, Neuroscience, nanotechnology and so on. Arts and entertainment are unnecessary. Sciences like psychology and sociology are taught to those who evaluate potential new members, but are unnecessary for everyone else. As the population grows, more buildings and the most efficient transportation possible is developed, whatever that may be. Self-modifying robots are assembled to be the labour and production force. As the population is mostly male, conventional breeding is impractical. Genetic modifications of current members slowly make the city grow. Once the city is sufficient in size, and non-dependent on the sun for food production, the headquarters unleashes the series of hacks that sends off every nuke ever made to coordinates designed to minimise the chances of survival of the maximum number of people, outside the city, which is, by now, well defended in whatever way is deemed appropriate too keep out any survivors. The population of the earth is now down to half a million or so, and e2density's overpopulation problem is solved.

Haha Why would people be happy without art or entertainment? Nd why would most of the population be male? And the tech to do this simply doesnt exist.

 

[Twilight_guy]

Copy right 1994? That chart is 16 years old dude. Statistics have changed since then!

Pojected population is actually down a bit since the old charts. As countries develop, the birth rate tends to drop. Still, China and India have extremely high pop density but for some reason the people have not migrated outwards. Perhaps its less an issue of global overpopulation and local overpopulation?

 

[samstewiefisher]

I can't see a damn thing wrong with telling some people that they're wasting space and shouldn't be allowed to take up even more by producing perverse and malnourished offspring outside the national budget.

The fun thing about communism and democracy is that they're functionally identical in their purest forms. Congrats, Mr. Godwin, you win tonight's "Misinformed Paranoid Leftist Bullshit Rant" Award. Go to the back of the oven and collect your cookie.[/quote]

How are communism and democracy functionally identical in their purist form??

 

[dochmbi]

Limit the age of the elderly. It really isn't natural that we are living to be 90 years old these days. Plus older people just put a strain on a lot of resources both physically and socially. It's just my opinion. I don't actually play on going around putting down old people.

*saracasm*Yeah because human life has no intrinsic value, it's value is measured only in what an individual contributes to the whole of society.

Humans have a right to live and a right to die, the individual should be the only one with a say on whether or not he/she wishes to live.

 

[Manicotti]

I think the worst part is the fact that thousands of people give birth to children they never wanted. They got pregnant because they were too fucking lazy to use a condom or birth control. Or, too drunk. Or... too stupid. Or... you get the point.

Teen pregnancy should be a punishable crime.

 

[Manicotti]

How are communism and democracy functionally identical in their purist form??

Other than that they both aspire to an utterly egalitarian state, where political decisions are participated in by every member of the relevant society irrespective of "class"? The biggest historical differences are in execution and accountability of the authorities in charge. And, I suppose, that pesky Carter doctrine demanding war on everyone moving in on our gold mines.

 

[koeniginator]

Sterilize all but superior human beings?
I DON'T KNOW.

 

[Gsmoove]

Why not the people who suggest sterilization and euthanasia start with themselves, that would help the situation

 

[Tharwen]

I don't know. When the Earth reaches a critical population, resources will run out and billions of people will die. That is unavoidable unless we start reducing our population growth soon. That is unlikely to happen because it would mean that everyone would have to make a serious lifestyle change.

 

[Addendum_Forthcoming]

Off world habitation :3

 

[Daipire]

In before suggestions relating to nuclear war or other forms of mass murder.

I'll do my bit

 

[SenseOfTumour]

I don't know. When the Earth reaches a critical population, resources will run out and billions of people will die. That is unavoidable unless we start reducing our population growth soon. That is unlikely to happen because it would mean that everyone would have to make a serious lifestyle change.

Stripping human emotion away for a moment, that is how this would fix itself.

The population would go up and up until it hits a limit, then it'll crash down, then slowly start building up again.

I think part of the problem is that there's a lot of space out there to expand into, however it's not cheap space. After all, how much of Australia is actually populated? Yet you'd have to pay to create a new water supply, power, etc. People want more space, more housing, but no-one wants to pay out for it.

The way I see it, if and when overpopulation hits critical mass, the third world will pay the highest price, but then when they're almost wiped out, and we're not all able to ride on their poverty any more, we'll start getting hit by it too.

 

[Estocavio]

Well the world is overpopulated.
But apparently taking Contraceptives and the such is "Inhumane".
Thanks department of Human rights for condemning millions to die in small 3rd world countries and for the populations to grow in wealthy ones until they pop like a balloon!

 

[Axzarious]

You should compare that graph to a graph of the average yield of farming land per square meter.

Turns out, if we keep improving our farming techniques and technologies, we will never run out of food.

We may never run out of food... but we will eventually run out of usable biomass for both buildings (As things tend to be going the biodegradable or "green" route now.), materials, and other things.. One must remember that we are essentially made from what we eat, literally. We are essentially topsoil, in the simplest sense, there is only so much "usable" material as a whole. Matter is not infinite. It exists as both intert and living things. we only have so much. And is it just food your thinking of? Think about water too... Then again, we got the ocean, and there are methods of making salt water into fresh water.

Although it would take years to exhaust those resources... but eventually, it will come to this- Whatever isnt human, is being used for food. All other animals will livestock... pets are only for the rich that can afford them, as that precious biomass is limited.

Materials are not infinite.