Oversexualized but well written characters

[oreso]

To be fair, I see the term "Objectify" thrown around a whole bunch, often improperly, it's no wonder oreso got the wrong idea about what it means.

Yeah, I was kinda using the word facetiously. I'm kinda tired of its looser meaning of "ZOMG! You found me attractive! You don't respect me, jerk!"

Folks should probably lose the shame and insecurity here. I can totally ogle Lara or anyone all day and it wouldn't mean anything special about how I regard them as a person/character overall.

I didn't play Mass Effect 2 and think "Oh, Samera is a tragic and intriguing figure, but I just can't feel sympathetic for a character with jugs like that"

If you ask me, THAT'S superficial.

Great way to put it.

 

[havoc33]

IMO, if the way a character looks destroys your ability to take them seriously, assuming that it doesn't directly contradict their character, that's a problem YOU have, not the game.

Especially when we're talking about something as superficial as the fact that they're attractive.

I didn't play Mass Effect 2 and think "Oh, Samera is a tragic and intriguing figure, but I just can't feel sympathetic for a character with jugs like that"

If you ask me, THAT'S superficial.

Tell me, if your boss showed up to work one day in his underpants and nothing else, would you really have no trouble taking his instructions seriously?

And what does that really have to do with a fictional game universe where most things are overdone anyway? That's why it's called entertainent, not real life.

 

[King Aragorn]

MGS, specifically EVA, you could argue even Meryl/Naomi weren't bad characters, even if heavily sexaulised. I mean, EVA has her top unzipped the entire time...
I don't mind sexualising, unless the game really pushes it in your face every 5 seconds.

 

[BathorysGraveland2]

I quite liked both Triss and Ves

I can kind of get Triss, but Ves? Really? Where do you get any kind of sexual-focus from her? I know Geralt has the potential to get it on with her, but it is unexpected and you do have to put effort in to get it (I myself, for my Roche playthrough, got told to fuck off for poor dialogue choices). I just, don't see anything overly sexual about Ves at all and when it does eventually occur, it seems to be private as hell anyway.

Can you explain your reasoning behind this?

 

[gmaverick019_v1legacy]

Samara#'s sexualisation really clashes with her character and its awful that they chose to do that. But Mass Effect in general is pretty disgraceful with throwing people off the boat to sexualise them *coughmirandasbumcough* but the character itself wasn't bad.

If it doesn't actually conflict with the character then it doesn't bother me too hugely (but if it's Lara Croft silly it begins to do itself some harm if they want it taken seriously), although it's always nice to have some more diversity and some more ordinary looking people.

HEY! don't you dare talk bad about my girlfri-I MEAN miranda's awesome butt!


OT: Well obviously mass effect is high up there, so i'm going to mention:

FFX-2, I can't remember exactly what it was called, but when you transformed the characters with those "spheres", it was one of those "oh shit my parents better not walk by" moments.

 

[Murrdox]

Samara, Mass Effect.

Interesting and supremely well defined character, but... why is she wearing a swimsuit with a cleavage window, pauldrons, and high heels? You're seriously trying to tell me that's the everyday outfit of a warrior-monk? Yeah.

Jack, same series.

Good character, blah blah blah. Topless except for a leather strap that she uses like some kind of cupless bra. To be fair, I think half the point of that was to show off her tattoos. Still silly though.

Ugh yes thank you for pointing that out. Why Samara had to have such a ridiculous outfit totally unsuited for her profession I have no idea.

And why the hell couldn't they have at least given Jack a tank-top or something? Her character design looked like a fanboy of The 5th Element went off the rails to design a "strap" outfit like LeeLoo. Yeah the tattoos were cool... but the stupid nipple-belt was really really dumb looking.

As for The Witcher and The Witcher 2, The Witcher had a few shallow sexual scenes with NPCs that hardly had any development at all. However in The Witcher 2 pretty much all of this was gone. I didn't find any of the female characters over-sexualized. They struck me as very empowered, actually. Triss is NOT to be messed with, even though she does have quite a bit of "damsel in distress" syndrome in Witcher 2.

 

[The Wykydtron]

Ok i'm going to bring BlazBlue up because how the balls could I forget? I mean the game takes the piss out of itself in a lot of the gag endings and the Help Me, Professor Kokonoe! Sections for having a few hilarious battle outfits but I would say it does restrain itself enough to be taken seriously. Tsubaki is practically dressed like a nun for an opposite example.

Makoto and Mu-12 for example. I really like Makoto as a character but there's a good non-constricting boxing outfit then there's this

Spoiler

I'm not complaining, it detracts nothing from her character, looks cool and does fit her playstyle.

I have no idea why Mu-12 is so... Exposed though. She's a weapon of world destroying proportions and OH MY GOD! WHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU WEARING?!

Spoiler

Her "Battle Mode" is practically naked except for her swords and cool headband thing. I'm sure there's a meaning to her appearance somewhere but I can't find a solid one yet. Did Hazama design her appearance by any chance? If so it makes sense since he would make it hilarious just for the lolz.

 

[Shrack]

Motoko Kusanagi from Ghost in the Shell. Especially her outfit in the first season of Stand Alone Complex. She is pretty much a kickass, no nonsense super hacker and combat expert, but is wearing what amounts to a leotard and a jacket.

I was much happier when they have her proper clothing in season 2.

Compared to some of the stuff in the manga, the Major is overdressed in SAC. Several characters in the show make remarks about how the Major dresses. Particularly right after she complains about women being objectified.

 

[bastardofmelbourne]

Morrigan from Dragon Age. Walks around with nothing covering her top half but what appears to be a sheer, silky scarf. Doesn't stop her from one of the more interesting characters I've ever seen in a Bioware RPG and one of the most interesting love interests, especially given the impact a romance with her will have on the plot.

I would say Witcher 2, but the fact is that outside of her two nude scenes, Triss' outfit in 2 is pretty practical, so I don't think she was that heavily sexualised.

As for whether it bothers me...usually not. Generally, it doesn't have much of an impact at all when compared to just how well written the character is. I won't like a character just because they show little leg, and I won't hate them if they do.

The only time it's really bothered me was in ME2. Samara is actually a very tame example; Miranda and Jack's outfits made it impossible for me to take them seriously. Especially Jack's. I get it, you're a badass psychic outlaw. Put a damn shirt on. The writing simply wasn't good enough to compensate for how ridiculous they both looked.

(Also second Major Kusanagi.)

 

[The Madman]

I can kind of get Triss, but Ves? Really? Where do you get any kind of sexual-focus from her? I know Geralt has the potential to get it on with her, but it is unexpected and you do have to put effort in to get it (I myself, for my Roche playthrough, got told to fuck off for poor dialogue choices). I just, don't see anything overly sexual about Ves at all and when it does eventually occur, it seems to be private as hell anyway.

Can you explain your reasoning behind this?

Mostly just her outfit is all, I agree with you that she's quite badass.

I wanted to get a decent picture to demonstrate but 90% of the stuff that pops up on google image for Ves are either pictures from the sex scene or Skyrim mods, what the hell?

 

[Diddy_Mao]

Power Girl.

This is kinda touch and go because how well written she is depends on the person in charge at the time. But over all I find that I really enjoy her headlining stories and I find her to be a fun counterpoint to the grim and gritty stuff I usually read.

 

[The Funslinger]

Samara, Mass Effect.

Interesting and supremely well defined character, but... why is she wearing a swimsuit with a cleavage window, pauldrons, and high heels? You're seriously trying to tell me that's the everyday outfit of a warrior-monk? Yeah.

Jack, same series.

Good character, blah blah blah. Topless except for a leather strap that she uses like some kind of cupless bra. To be fair, I think half the point of that was to show off her tattoos. Still silly though.

I was going to say Miranda. She had a fairly interesting character arc.

 

[Mistilteinn]

-snip-

I have no idea why Mu-12 is so... Exposed though. She's a weapon of world destroying proportions and OH MY GOD! WHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU WEARING?!

Spoiler

Her "Battle Mode" is practically naked except for her swords and cool headband thing. I'm sure there's a meaning to her appearance somewhere but I can't find a solid one yet. Did Hazama design her appearance by any chance? If so it makes sense since he would make it hilarious just for the lolz.

I can agree with both of the characters, but I just remember a quote from...Daisuke Ishiwatari, I believe? He did the character designs for Guilty Gear, if I'm right, and someone asked him how he felt about the Mu-12 design, and his response was something along the lines of, "I don't quite understand the point of it--I always thought armor was meant to protect the body..."

Funny thing is, when I first saw her CS artwork I thought she looked pretty cool and wondered how she would fight. Then when I first saw her intro and 'transformation' I stopped and went, "What the hell!? ...Japan!!!!!"

 

[Meatspinner]

Raiden and Solid Snake are good contenders (ok maybe not Raiden)

Spoiler: Not for the faint of heart

 

[Lilani]

IMO, if the way a character looks destroys your ability to take them seriously, assuming that it doesn't directly contradict their character, that's a problem YOU have, not the game.

Especially when we're talking about something as superficial as the fact that they're attractive.

I didn't play Mass Effect 2 and think "Oh, Samera is a tragic and intriguing figure, but I just can't feel sympathetic for a character with jugs like that"

If you ask me, THAT'S superficial.

Even if a character is directly sexualized (Take Miranda, again from ME) it doesn't mean there's nothing underneath. The problem we face with the portrayal of women in the arts is not that they're simply "Too sexy", the problem is that, too often, that's ALL they are.

Characters with average designs aren't any better than ones with attractive designs.

The idea that a characters appearance can dictate their complexity is no less superficial than the idea that their appearance is all that matters.

I think when people make the "Good character is too sexualized" argument, it's because there's often little context for it. Like, why does Samara dress like that? She has children so she's not celibate, but at the same time she is clearly more dedicated to her job as a justicar than to her relationships (thus giving her the willpower to track down and kill her dangerous children). With Jack it at least makes a bit of sense--she's been a science experiment all her life, of course she's going to be used to being seen basically naked, and along with her hair it can be argued that the way she dresses is a form of rebellion and liberation. And with Miranda, while she doesn't dress much worse than Femshep, the camera [http://www.themarysue.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/MirandaGreatButt1.jpeg] likes to make it known what the game wants you to be looking at.

And that screenshot isn't even from when you're romancing her. It's just a regular cutscene that's from her story arc. Stuff like that has no place in situations like that. When a game is deliberately sabotaging its characters for the sake of gratuitous ass and boob shots, it's hard to not argue that the characters aren't damaged in the crossfire as well. Yes, it doesn't affect the writing, however it can drastically alter the situations they are in as a whole. I mean, just imagine if Samuel L. Jackson did that whole "English ************, do you speak it?!" scene from Pulp Fiction wearing nothing but a speedo and sunglasses. The speech and the writing may be the same, but can you honestly argue that you perceive his character a bit differently because of that appearance? Or at the very least, that it would confuse you just a bit?

 

[Yuuki]

Bayonetta and Juliet Starling (Lollipop) are fairly well-written, although the story arcs are a bit of a mouthful to take in at first. Heavily oversexualized, but to the point of being fully self-aware and therefore coming off as irony/parody. You can dig that!

No I'm not going to put pictures of her in spoilers, that's what Google Images is for!

As for an "oversexualized male", I don't think such a thing can even exist as far as most people here are concerned. The more you take a guy's clothes off, the more it gets classified under "male power fantasy"...so any attempts at sexualization just serve to make the character seem more and more macho/manly.

Possibly the only exception I can think of is Vincent from Catherine:

Spoiler: Oh look, he's holding a pillow!

To many women a sharp-dressed man in a confident/powerful stance is ALREADY sexy, forget removing his clothes...ladies will know what I mean (or at least, some of you ).

 

[Gearhead mk2]

Makoto from Blazblue. She's honestly my fav character in the entire franchise. Her playstyle is awesome, she's funny, she has real problems and tragedy but is still one of the most cheerful characters, and her musical theme is awesome too. But her design... I got nothing wrong with skimpy clothing so long as it still seems practical, like something that someone would actually wear. Makoto wears HALF A SPORTS TOP AND A THONG WITH NAPKINS CLIPPED TO IT! It makes me feel pervy every time I play her.

 

[IllumInaTIma]

Also, it's weird how Dead Or Alive is getting called out more and more for objectification, when the games have been moving further and further away from titillation. That was Itagaki's bag, and he isn't with Team Ninja any more.

Well, there's still "Breast Physics" level in options menu...