Overwatch and ludonarrative dissonance

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Erttheking

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Yes that term that's really silly sounding and easy to make fun of. I've been thinking about this for awhile but what really made me want to talk about this is Bastion's animated short. Basically this short demonstrated that Bastion was a peaceful creature that decided to abandon his previous programing and live alone in the forest, and that any time he became violent, it was his programing going Iron Giant on him. Something that directly contradicts the in game Bastion, which camps and merrily mows down dozens of living, thinking people. Overwatch has a very interesting story, and very fun gameplay. And I know we've all thought this at one point or another, but the two might as well be on different planets.

Moments like this are sad because it tells me that, for all of its evolution, gaming is still stunted in a lot of ways. Blizzard was able to come up with an interesting world with a lot of aspects for it with Overwatch, but the game that goes with it? People just killing each other with shooty bang bang (Smashy slice slice in the case of Genji and Reinhardt). And because I just know that some people are going to take this the wrong way, I'm not saying that this is bad, but I think we've all admitted at one point that gaming relies on combat a little too much. Sure there are genres that don't do it, visual novels, puzzle games, simulation games, but huge swathes of gaming create interesting and vast worlds and don't give you very few ways to interact with it outside of killing things. Sometimes that works from a narrative standpoint. Sometimes, as with Bastion and Overwatch, it really doesn't.

Now there are always going to be games like Overwatch and TF2. Games where people have backstories, but at the end of the dead they're going to fight against their mothers and three clones of themselves because it's fun. I just wish that gaming would find other ways to show conflict, as there are only so many ways that you show fighting before you run out of possibilities.
There are games who are breaking out of the mold and doing new and interesting alternatives, Fallen London and Sunless Sea come to mind. Both have combat, but that's more of a side thing to the meat of the gameplay in both cases. In fact, a lot of indie games seem to be going down this route.

I have no idea where I'm going with this to be perfectly honest. I'm just trying to say that gaming has a lot of narratives that it seems to want to tell, and they tend to get slapped together with gameplay that doesn't always suit them. Why, in Suikoden, when my main concern is political intrigue, do I have to keep stopping to fight fucking DoReMi elves? And I like Suikoden, I just feel like gaming is kind of hobbled right now in terms of possibilities. New frontiers are being explored, but it's a slow process. I want to see new games. Games where...I dunno, the point is to stay as far away from fighting as possible. To keep fighting from happening. To navigate a complex system of politics.

I'd want to see a character like Bastion in a game where his goal isn't to camp and farm kills. Gaming is unique in that it can tell a story through it's mechanics. I'd like to see more of that, and not a contrast between gameplay and story.
 

Phasmal

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Well, you know Overwatch's gameplay is non-canon, right?

So, the story and the gameplay are completely separate. And I kind of like it that way.You have a bright fun game where you can kill each other for fun but there's also an extended universe you can learn about if you care. Which personally I do. The comics are fun, and the shorts are amazing.
 

Johnny Novgorod

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Phasmal said:
Well, you know Overwatch's gameplay is non-canon, right?

So, the story and the gameplay are completely separate.
That's why I think the story's worthless. Something they couldn't even tack on the game. So it's 90% Wikia, 10% misc.
 

Zontar

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erttheking said:
Yes that term that's really silly sounding and easy to make fun of
That's the second thing that comes to mind, the first being the fact that it's a term that arose decades after it arose and there's no real purpose to it given how a game's narrative and gameplay being at odds with each other goes as far back as games with a narrative do.
 

Zontar

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Johnny Novgorod said:
Phasmal said:
Well, you know Overwatch's gameplay is non-canon, right?

So, the story and the gameplay are completely separate.
That's why I think the story's worthless. Something they couldn't even tack on the game. So it's 90% Wikia, 10% misc.
Worked for TF2, though that was always comedic in nature where it acted as advertisement more then anything else.
 

Phasmal

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Johnny Novgorod said:
Phasmal said:
Well, you know Overwatch's gameplay is non-canon, right?

So, the story and the gameplay are completely separate.
That's why I think the story's worthless. Something they couldn't even tack on the game. So it's 90% Wikia, 10% misc.
Oh well. It can't be to everyone's tastes. Personally I enjoy it, because you don't have to care about the story or the characters but you can learn about them if you want to.
 

Erttheking

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Phasmal said:
Well, you know Overwatch's gameplay is non-canon, right?

So, the story and the gameplay are completely separate. And I kind of like it that way.You have a bright fun game where you can kill each other for fun but there's also an extended universe you can learn about if you care. Which personally I do. The comics are fun, and the shorts are amazing.
So...the biggest and most prominent part of the game, the part that most people are going to spend time with, is non-canon. I mean I KNEW that, but it's kind of a smack in the face to hear it be official. It's just...I dunno. Feels like missed potential. Massive freaking missed potential. Because let's be honest, the character are interesting as is the world that they're in...but I have my doubts that Blizzard is going to DO anything with them. There's no overarching plot, no goal to be heading towards, I doubt there's going to be a resolution to the second omnic crisis, or to Talon. Just....GUH!
Zontar said:
erttheking said:
Yes that term that's really silly sounding and easy to make fun of
That's the second thing that comes to mind, the first being the fact that it's a term that arose decades after it arose and there's no real purpose to it given how a game's narrative and gameplay being at odds with each other goes as far back as games with a narrative do.
It arose decades after it arose....wha? And it has no purpose because...this has been around for awhile? I don't follow. Can you just not name things after the fact?
 

Johnny Novgorod

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Zontar said:
Johnny Novgorod said:
Phasmal said:
Well, you know Overwatch's gameplay is non-canon, right?

So, the story and the gameplay are completely separate.
That's why I think the story's worthless. Something they couldn't even tack on the game. So it's 90% Wikia, 10% misc.
Worked for TF2, though that was always comedic in nature where it acted as advertisement more then anything else.
Like you said, it works because they're funny vignettes (and the game itself is comic in spirit, so they go hand in hand).
Phasmal said:
Johnny Novgorod said:
Phasmal said:
Well, you know Overwatch's gameplay is non-canon, right?

So, the story and the gameplay are completely separate.
That's why I think the story's worthless. Something they couldn't even tack on the game. So it's 90% Wikia, 10% misc.
Oh well. It can't be to everyone's tastes. Personally I enjoy it, because you don't have to care about the story or the characters but you can learn about them if you want to.
To me the it's on par with character backstories in fighting games. Everybody has a favorite, but they're all ultimately meaningless.
 

nomotog_v1legacy

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Phasmal said:
Well, you know Overwatch's gameplay is non-canon, right?

So, the story and the gameplay are completely separate. And I kind of like it that way.You have a bright fun game where you can kill each other for fun but there's also an extended universe you can learn about if you care. Which personally I do. The comics are fun, and the shorts are amazing.
So there is like no point to the gamethen?

I have had this issue with games for a long time. There are about a billion excuses for it, but it is bloody annoying how stunted our gameplay is. It only seems to be getting worse too. So few games experiment with new gameplay these days and games seem to be kind of pooling into each other. Like look at AC. It started with it's own unique gameplay hook of social stealth that no one else had. Now, well they just added a sneak button so they could do stealth like how everyone else dose stealth.
 

sXeth

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Johnny Novgorod said:
Phasmal said:
Well, you know Overwatch's gameplay is non-canon, right?

So, the story and the gameplay are completely separate.

That's why I think the story's worthless. Something they couldn't even tack on the game. So it's 90% Wikia, 10% misc.
AS much as I don't support Overwatch for being an anemic game and horribly anti-consumer beyond any other AAA game in recent memory.

This isn't really a new thing, MOBA's spring to mind, along with fighting games for ages and ages. Its only more recently that the proper story campaign has sort of come into some fighting games. For ages you just went piece by piece up a list of the characters fighting them, whether their backstories had them as enemies, allies, or people your character were apathetic too.

Another genre to use the concept is strategy games. Outside of the campaigns, you can often have any race/etc fighting whoever for no established reason, or sworn enemies allied to each other.
 

nomotog_v1legacy

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Zontar said:
erttheking said:
Yes that term that's really silly sounding and easy to make fun of
That's the second thing that comes to mind, the first being the fact that it's a term that arose decades after it arose and there's no real purpose to it given how a game's narrative and gameplay being at odds with each other goes as far back as games with a narrative do.
It only came into use when games started avoiding it. Some games do a nice job of weaving their narrative with their gameplay. (Mostly by just giving violence filled narratives, but I digress.) God of war was a fair example. Your a horrible bastard who just kills people out of a selfish attempt to absolve your guilt and that fits in and out of the gameplay.
 

Myria

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There's rather an extreme amount of disconnect between the story and gameplay in Overwatch. I suspect a lot of that has to do with the use of elements from Titan, which was to be an MMO and presumably would have had a lot more room for the story elements to be expanded on and make sense in-game. When Titan was canceled and elements of it recycled into Overwatch they kept/took elements from a number of the characters and, presumably, themes and story elements, but story elements and themes that could have been made to work in-game in an MMORPG game can't really work in a PvP-arena setting. For whatever reason, they decided to stick with them anyway and call the gameplay non-canon.

Kind of an odd decision, to me, but it does seem to be working for them.

It probably doesn't hurt that Blizz makes some of the most amazing shorts and cut scenes in the business.
 

Zontar

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erttheking said:
It arose decades after it arose....wha? And it has no purpose because...this has been around for awhile? I don't follow. Can you just not name things after the fact?
Well naming things after the fact isn't anything new (hell 'racism' is a term born in the 60s yet is of a concept that's been around so long we didn't need a word for it because it was just there), but making a big fancy word for something so entrenched in gaming that really has no need for discussion isn't really needed.
 

Saelune

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Phasmal said:
Johnny Novgorod said:
Phasmal said:
Well, you know Overwatch's gameplay is non-canon, right?

So, the story and the gameplay are completely separate.
That's why I think the story's worthless. Something they couldn't even tack on the game. So it's 90% Wikia, 10% misc.
Oh well. It can't be to everyone's tastes. Personally I enjoy it, because you don't have to care about the story or the characters but you can learn about them if you want to.
TF2 does both though. Most people who play it probably don't care about the story behind it, but there is one, and it ties into the gameplay.

And there are canonically multiple scouts and spies and heavies, so it isn't weird for there to be multiple on each side, while in Overwatch there is only one Tracer.
 

Erttheking

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Zontar said:
erttheking said:
It arose decades after it arose....wha? And it has no purpose because...this has been around for awhile? I don't follow. Can you just not name things after the fact?
Well naming things after the fact isn't anything new (hell 'racism' is a term born in the 60s yet is of a concept that's been around so long we didn't need a word for it because it was just there), but making a big fancy word for something so entrenched in gaming that really has no need for discussion isn't really needed.
Uh, no need for discussion? I beg to differ. Gaming is a very young medium and there is a lot of untapped potential in it. Saying there's no need for discussion just because it's entrenched in gaming doesn't make any sense. We shouldn't talk about things just because it's deeply entrenched? How does that work? If anything, we should talk about it BECAUSE it's so deeply entrenched in gaming. What's wrong with examining the fundamentals of the medium and how they could be holding us back?
 

nomotog_v1legacy

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Silentpony said:
To be fair, Blizzard games are not really know for their plots as much as addictive gameplay.
The funny thing, I think with overwatch it is the other way around. I see very little talk aboutvoverwatch's gameplay but a ton of talk about the plot and characters.
 

Zontar

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erttheking said:
Zontar said:
erttheking said:
It arose decades after it arose....wha? And it has no purpose because...this has been around for awhile? I don't follow. Can you just not name things after the fact?
Well naming things after the fact isn't anything new (hell 'racism' is a term born in the 60s yet is of a concept that's been around so long we didn't need a word for it because it was just there), but making a big fancy word for something so entrenched in gaming that really has no need for discussion isn't really needed.
Uh, no need for discussion? I beg to differ. Gaming is a very young medium and there is a lot of untapped potential in it. Saying there's no need for discussion just because it's entrenched in gaming doesn't make any sense. We shouldn't talk about things just because it's deeply entrenched? How does that work? If anything, we should talk about it BECAUSE it's so deeply entrenched in gaming. What's wrong with examining the fundamentals of the medium and how they could be holding us back?
There's no need for discussion because it's something that doesn't actually effect the games from either a gameplay or story perspective. Using film as a comparison, it's like spending time discussing which minor variation of camera filter was used: sure there's about 5 seconds of talk to be had in the exceptionally rare case of it being relevant, but it takes a back seat to the actual discussion to be had.
 

Erttheking

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Zontar said:
Yeah, it actually kind of does have an impact on the story. The various parts of the game don't exist in a vacuum, they all interact. People notice when parts of a game's story and the gameplay don't match up, it gets in the way. One of the reasons Dark Souls is so beloved is because while the game is all about fighting, its story is fine tuned to perfectly fit that type of gameplay. Very few games do that, and you do the medium a disservice to act like it isn't important and offers no possibilities for the medium. And, importantly, not looking at this at all and moving on as is would stunt the growth of the medium.

And let's not use film as a comparison. Because video games are not films and the connection between gameplay and story has no equivalent in other medium. It sure as hell isn't comparable to camera filters.
 

MerlinCross

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I mean to be fair, how do you have character growth and story progression, when the arena you fight in has to reset each time. Along with explaining how people who hate each other are on the same team. Yes there's more to the issue(Nice Sukidoen reference) but let's stick to multiplayer for now.

This is why I kinda hold up League of Legends as the champ(former champ) in this area. It's still a lot of wiki searching and back story to go through but they gave an in world reason to the insanity. The match is basically fought in stead of a war to solve problems. The characters work for the League(akin to football players basically) but also have a home city/state they champion. And beacuase they have to obey Summoners(players) in battle, sometimes they end up on the same team as someone they dislike but just have to bear it.

Throw in some world building events or character ones and you actually have a living changing world with character that feel more real than other games. It's possible to tie the story and game together.

Granted Riot went and threw it all in the dumpster so what do I know