Overwatch fears

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CritialGaming

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Overwatch recently got pulled down off Beta for the next month or so in order for Blizzard to make some improvements to the game.

Now I expressed concerned on the Beta forums for Overwatch. I like Blizzard and I genuinely want Overwatch to be a good game. As it was prior to the 12/10/15 pull, it was not a good game. Let me explain. Overwatch has a lot of promise, and fantastic core gameplay mechanics, but it has a strong lack of any real....well anything.

Look at Battlefront, a game which has release for a full price tag plus 50 extra fuck you dollars. Battlefront is a mess, and players have already expressed concerns for a declining player base. There simply isn't enough on offer to hold people's interest for very long. But, like Overwatch, it is a multiplayer only shooter (even though there is a single player tiny portion). And unlike Overwatch, Battlefront has 9 game modes, and a progression system.

That bothers me. I fear that Overwatch doesn't have enough to keep players around. There are only 2 game modes, which you might argue is 4 modes if you count attacking and defending as different modes of the same game type. But really there are only two modes, and NO progression system. But a bigger problem is the lack of feedback the game gives.

When playing Overwatch you have no idea how well you are doing, no way to tell if you are improving from match to match. Sure there are brief career stats at the end of a given game, but because you might use any combination of the 21 characters in a given match, the career stats don't really say much except that you might linger on one hero over others.

Then Overwatch has nothing to offer players who continue to play the game. No account leveling, no badges, skin unlocks, different guns for characters you play a lot. Nothing to work towards. And with only two modes and no reason to continue to play the game, why would people play Overwatch over any other multiplayer game.

Fun? Fun alone I fear is not a good enough reason. Especially since Team Fortress 2 is free and has progression. Even other paid multiplayer titles, like Rainbow 6, and (ugh) Battlefront, at least provide players something to personally work towards.


Now there is no way to know what Blizzard is doing to Overwatch over the next 5 or 6 weeks it will be gone. But I can only hope that they look at the shaky grounds the past wave of multiplayer arena shooters have launched on, and realize that they have to do something to not only stand out, but excel Overwatch above the competition.


What do you guys think?
 
Nov 9, 2015
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Leveling, unlocks, new guns, and skins don't really add much to the experience if the gameplay is what is supposed to be enjoyable. In my opinion tf2 right now is in kind of shitty state of having no real sense of class balance or competitive gameplay due to too many weapons with stats slapped on without consideration towards any sort of how it will effect the game, so class distinctions are so blurred that there is no strategy besides picking your favorite loadout.

Really the most important part is the core gameplay and establishing a community first. Things like progression do little to keep the playerbase around in the long term. When player bases diminish, it's usually because the game is being neglected or another game has attracted the attention of the players. For example, When l4d took tf2's developers, tf2's numbers fell because class updates were supposed to be fleshing out the game. People felt like the game was unfinished and lacking in content while development was stuck in limbo. Then when l4d came out, it was the new best thing. But look at l4d now. It's dead, not necessarily because of lack of updates or cosmetic things, but because of extremely repetitive gameplay, constant amount of leavers, frustrating experiences that make the game more of a hassle to find enjoyment.

If the core gameplay and enjoyability is optimized to peak perfection, then really why add more content other than maps. For example, games like CSS and CS1.6 were always the top 2 played steam games despite not receiving any major updates for long periods of time. All other games were dwarfed in comparison to how large both playerbases were. CSS has like what, 2 game modes, and a modding community. The most played maps were like the same old dust2 and office. The staying power was the gameplay and existing community.

Overwatch in its release would be very similar to 2007-2009 tf2. Paid, little maps, 2/3 game modes, and fine tuned balance. All that needs to be done is to foster some sort of community, and balanced new characters (which replaces unlockable guns).
 

The Wykydtron

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Sep 23, 2010
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TF2 barely has a progression system and I still play a lot of it with the same old loadout (Backburner Pyro boys!) Fun should just be the main factor here, remove as many XP counters from a game as you want as long as it is fun.

Now there is still a few concerns I have about Overwatch, how many maps does it have? I mean TF2 has several maps per game type + 2Fort and Hightower as the TDM stupid fuckabout maps. I really like the look of a few characters and seeing how it's going kind of MOBA-y with the 4 abilities and ults and shit, maybe they can skip some extra maps because you've got the League and DOTA players playing on the same map for years as potential customers. They shouldn't skip on maps but I wouldn't be surprised if they did.

Quietly hopeful but expecting the least with Overwatch for me. Blizz balancing is legendarily bad. Some people still haven't gotten over Starcraft 2.
 

elvor0

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CritialGaming said:
That bothers me. I fear that Overwatch doesn't have enough to keep players around. There are only 2 game modes, which you might argue is 4 modes if you count attacking and defending as different modes of the same game type. But really there are only two modes, and NO progression system. But a bigger problem is the lack of feedback the game gives.

When playing Overwatch you have no idea how well you are doing, no way to tell if you are improving from match to match. Sure there are brief career stats at the end of a given game, but because you might use any combination of the 21 characters in a given match, the career stats don't really say much except that you might linger on one hero over others.

Then Overwatch has nothing to offer players who continue to play the game. No account leveling, no badges, skin unlocks, different guns for characters you play a lot. Nothing to work towards. And with only two modes and no reason to continue to play the game, why would people play Overwatch over any other multiplayer game.

Fun? Fun alone I fear is not a good enough reason. Especially since Team Fortress 2 is free and has progression. Even other paid multiplayer titles, like Rainbow 6, and (ugh) Battlefront, at least provide players something to personally work towards.
1st one I suspect will be fixed in time, Beta did only just launch, so i suspect extra game modes and maps are on the horizon.

2, TF2 has the same character based stats I believe.

3. Fun is a good enough reason. Not everything has to have a progression system, BF2 didnt have one, CSGO doesn't have one, TF2 didnt have one, CSS doesn't have anything of the sort and its still going, fuck CS 1.6 is still going. Quake and Unreal Tournement were huge in their day, as was Duke Nukem 3D, Blood and Shadow Warrior, C&C, Starcraft, WC3, the original DOTA.

You play the game over another multiplayer game because you enjoy it more, plain and simple. I yearn to still play BF 2142 and it had basically no unlocks beyond a couple of extra things for each class which were swiftly unlocked. Sure it had exp, but it didn't actually mean anything.
 

CritialGaming

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elvor0 said:
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3. Fun is a good enough reason. Not everything has to have a progression system, BF2 didnt have one, CSGO doesn't have one, TF2 didnt have one, CSS doesn't have anything of the sort and its still going, fuck CS 1.6 is still going. Quake and Unreal Tournement were huge in their day, as was Duke Nukem 3D, Blood and Shadow Warrior, C&C, Starcraft, WC3, the original DOTA.

You play the game over another multiplayer game because you enjoy it more, plain and simple. I yearn to still play BF 2142 and it had basically no unlocks beyond a couple of extra things for each class which were swiftly unlocked. Sure it had exp, but it didn't actually mean anything.
The difference in those games you mention and OVerwatch is all of those games have detailed stat systems that inform the player on how well they are doing. While there is no official progression grind in games like CS:GO, Quake, and so on, they do have K&D ratios, or in-match leaderboards, killfeeds, and whatever that all signal progression. Sure it might not be cosmetic, it is clearly marked in terms of game-skill progression.

Really I think the overall problem with Overwatch is the complete lack of feedback, whether that be in rewards for doing good, or simply a pat on the bat that says "good job dude".

Now they have said they are working on these things, and I really hope it works out in the end because I want Overwatch to be good. But the recent release swarm of these Multiplayer-only full price games has yielded very little beyond that little taste of bile you get when you burp.

Better grab some antacids before launch.
 

Redryhno

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Jul 25, 2011
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Before I start, I'm gonna say this as someone that got into the beta somehow and regrets it because I saw how much people wished they could get in, while I was bored after a while in it.

Unlocks aren't exactly all that great of a measure for how good a game is gonna be. You did see HotS right? Game's largely crashed and burned despite progression being a central part of the game. Dota and League effectively only have one mode that isn't community run and played and they're still going strong.

I will agree that there needs to be a score-ish board that should be available, just for those oh so common situations where the moron at the bottom of the board starts trying to shot call and gets everyone killed.

But there's not really any reason beyond maps and characters that anything significant is gonna change with the game. Some maps just so heavily favor certain characters(and as there's a lack of AOE damage/ways to deal with it it's gonna be difficult) that others are pushed out completely. And others it doesn't really matter who you pick so long as his name is Reinhardt and you know what your shield does.
 

Zhukov

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Dec 29, 2009
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Y'know, it's funny, I actually see a fair few people complaining about multiplayer shooters having progression and unlocks.

Now we have a multiplayer shooter coming out without unlocks and it's going to crash and burn for it's sins, apparently.

Personally... I have no idea. I plan to buy and play the game when it's new, so I'll be done with it long before it dies regardless of how long it ends up lasting.
 

Valiance

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The matches are only 6v6, so...You don't need too many people playing at once to have a full lobby.

It's a Blizzard game, so of course people will play it, even if it isn't very good.

You don't need to worry, friend.

I think lots of people will be excited and happy about a game not forcing them to grind for everything. Just look at the new Tribes Ascend patch. :)
 

Iwantstuff

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Overwatch is going to have a progression system, and sounds like they're going to be implementing it once the Beta opens back up again. Don't think we know what it's going to entail yet, but there should be a blue post floating around somewhere.
 

distortedreality

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If it's fun, I see no reason for it to not do well. I can't recall the amount of hours I put into CSS without any detailed career stats, progression etc.

If they get the balance right, which I suspect they will, considering the pedigree behind the dev team, I think it will do quite well. If they open it up to mods - hell, it could be around forever.
 

LetalisK

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Redryhno said:
Unlocks aren't exactly all that great of a measure for how good a game is gonna be. You did see HotS right? Game's largely crashed and burned despite progression being a central part of the game.
By what metric? Because this is the first I've heard of the burninating.
 

Redryhno

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LetalisK said:
Redryhno said:
Unlocks aren't exactly all that great of a measure for how good a game is gonna be. You did see HotS right? Game's largely crashed and burned despite progression being a central part of the game.
By what metric? Because this is the first I've heard of the burninating.
A bit of an overstatement on my part probably.

But by the metric that people jumped on it for a few months, and it largely is struggling along with Smite for viewers and it being too focused on needing friends to enjoy it more than anything. Not to mention that I tried playing a bit when Cho'Gall was released and I had three games in a row with at least three people I'd seen in my previous games(important to note that I saw them on different teams and at different times of the day).

Maybe I'm completely wrong, but HotS largely just seems to be sorta off most people's radar anymore.
 

Lightspeaker

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CritialGaming said:
Then Overwatch has nothing to offer players who continue to play the game. No account leveling, no badges, skin unlocks, different guns for characters you play a lot. Nothing to work towards. And with only two modes and no reason to continue to play the game, why would people play Overwatch over any other multiplayer game.
If I wasn't already buying this game day one the things you say here would absolutely sell me on it. Though I'm still fairly annoyed that I haven't got into the beta yet.

I'm absolutely SICK of progression in multiplayer shooters. It totally ruins the experience and lets developers get away with extremely shoddy design decisions by Skinner boxing the whole thing and relying on that for longevity. TF2 was at its absolute best when there were no unlocks, no drops, no nothing; just pure, unadulterated, fun gameplay.

TF2 introducing 'progression' and drops was the absolute worst thing to ever happen to it. The gameplay is a shadow of its former self these days.
 

Vigormortis

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It's a Blizzard game. Regardless of its quality and merits it'll sell and have a strong following. (though, being a Blizzard game, you can at the very least expect a fairly polished game)

Personally, I can't say how it will turn out. Nor can I say I'm really invested one way or the other. I have Doom and Titanfall 2 coming up next year and they should sufficiently scratch my multiplayer shooter itch for a while, so I'm not overly enticed by Overwatch.

That said, I hope it turns out well at launch. Quite a number of people seem genuinely excited for it, and more than enough seemed pleased by the beta. T'would be a shame if it crashed and burned. Besides, the world could use some more high-quality, class-based multiplayer games. Team Fortress 2 can't, nor shouldn't, stay 'the king' forever.