Pacific Rim Discussion *spoilers*

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Sigmund Av Volsung

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senordesol said:
I had a lot of problems with PR to the point where I'm actually surprised how much other people liked it. For me, most of it was either a lot of buildup with no payoff, or outright contradictions/lapses in logic.

Okay, dig this:

1. So the sallow bureaucrats decide that this wall idea is the best defense against giant monsters. Why? I didn't see any guns on the walls, I saw no reason the kaiju couldn't just climb over (not to mention: smash through). What, exactly, did they think giant, impractical, continent-spanning seawalls would do that Jaeger didn't?

2. So in the expo-intro we're told that the Jaeger are the best weapon against the Kaiju, right? So why is it for the whole movie we're only seeing the Jaeger getting their asses kicked? In every fight we're seeing own or more Jaeger getting their balls rocked. By the time they revealed the C5, I didn't really feel like the stakes were raised because at that point it was just a larger shoe sized being buried in their already abused cracks (and it could have just been a C3 for the difference it made to the plot).

3. What's the deal with drifting? I thought the premise was that you had to be super close and emotionally in-sync with your partner, yeah? They make drift compatibility a huge issue in the plot. Yet, it seems that any old asshole can do it. An American can drift with a Japanese woman several years his junior, A Brit (at least I think Marshall was British) can drift with an Aussie, -Hell- a man can drift with a Kaiju with nothing but a nosebleed for his trouble. So...what was the point of bringing it up if it had no bearing on the plot (other than the oh-so-memorable character of Mako wouldn't have been a pilot otherwise)?

4. Could the story and monsters be any more milktoast? When I heard they were deliberately calling their giant monsters Kaiju, I was prepared for Gigan, Ghidorah, Biolante, or at least Mothra... not those ones specifically, but -you know- cool monsters with awesome powers that have to be overcome on a case-by-case. But no...apart from the EMP monster, they don't appear to have any special abilities. None of them are memorable (or even all that distinct) except for the one that flies. Yawn.
In response to 2) and 4)

2)The Kaiju we see fighting the Jaegers are the genetically engineered ones, designed to be anti-Jaeger weapons(as can be seen with their abilities, for eg: Leatherback having the EMP strike, and Otachi having the Acid Spit), also the Jaegers were built to fight the 1st wave Kaiju, which were basically scouts, whereas the 2nd wave were mostly composed of specialised warriors.

4)Leatherback is a reference to King Kong(the way he moves and fights) and Otachi is a reference to another Kaiju movie monster, the name of which I have forgotten. Everything else you said is subjective, so I have no retort.
 

briankoontz

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Neo Genesis Evangelion is a much better version of this, and I don't think Hollywood understands just how terrible it's sense of humor is. Attack on Titan is a much better no-mech version of this.

Those of us who aren't children don't immediately start clapping our hands when we see giant robots.

It's not bad as Hollywood movies go, but that isn't saying much.
 

senordesol

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Akichi Daikashima said:
In response to 2) and 4)

2)The Kaiju we see fighting the Jaegers are the genetically engineered ones, designed to be anti-Jaeger weapons(as can be seen with their abilities, for eg: Leatherback having the EMP strike, and Otachi having the Acid Spit), also the Jaegers were built to fight the 1st wave Kaiju, which were basically scouts, whereas the 2nd wave were mostly composed of specialised warriors.

4)Leatherback is a reference to King Kong(the way he moves and fights) and Otachi is a reference to another Kaiju movie monster, the name of which I have forgotten. Everything else you said is subjective, so I have no retort.
-Yeah, fine. But without establishment, we lose all semblance of scale. We never see anyone in a Jaeger put down a Kaiju with ease (until the end where it makes the least sense). So I'll accept that there's a plot reason why these Kaiju are so difficult, but in terms of the language of cinema: if everything they come across can kick their ass, what reaction am I supposed to have when yet another thing appears to come kick their ass? Then, somehow, they start one-shotting C4s and I'm just left wondering why they didn't do that before / confused as to what the category system is supposed to mean.

So, they build up the Russians and the Triplets, and the Aussies...but they all get knocked out within the opening minutes of the fight (and taking nothing with them, by the way). But Gypsy Danger is able to take on TWO all by itself with a rookie co-pilot and incomplete systems information to boot? Whaaaaat???

-Did they name the Kaiju in the film? I don't remember them doing that (but then again, I started to lose investment pretty quickly). All I remember them referring to the Kaiju were by category. If there's some sort of EU material out there, that's fine, but why leave it out of the movie?
 

Goofguy

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The movie was a tad too predictable for my tastes. I get that it's a summer blockbuster and that I should just turn off my brain and enjoy the bombastic action. I did relish the big fight scenes, I think I just expected more from Del Toro. He's such a great filmmaker, I was hoping that he'd make a unique take on the giant robot and monster genre. Still an enjoyable movie, just not all that original for a Del Toro film.
 

Sigmund Av Volsung

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senordesol said:
Akichi Daikashima said:
In response to 2) and 4)

2)The Kaiju we see fighting the Jaegers are the genetically engineered ones, designed to be anti-Jaeger weapons(as can be seen with their abilities, for eg: Leatherback having the EMP strike, and Otachi having the Acid Spit), also the Jaegers were built to fight the 1st wave Kaiju, which were basically scouts, whereas the 2nd wave were mostly composed of specialised warriors.

4)Leatherback is a reference to King Kong(the way he moves and fights) and Otachi is a reference to another Kaiju movie monster, the name of which I have forgotten. Everything else you said is subjective, so I have no retort.
-Yeah, fine. But without establishment, we lose all semblance of scale. We never see anyone in a Jaeger put down a Kaiju with ease (until the end where it makes the least sense). So I'll accept that there's a plot reason why these Kaiju are so difficult, but in terms of the language of cinema: if everything they come across can kick their ass, what reaction am I supposed to have when yet another thing appears to come kick their ass? Then, somehow, they start one-shotting C4s and I'm just left wondering why they didn't do that before / confused as to what the category system is supposed to mean.

So, they build up the Russians and the Triplets, and the Aussies...but they all get knocked out within the opening minutes of the fight (and taking nothing with them, by the way). But Gypsy Danger is able to take on TWO all by itself with a rookie co-pilot and incomplete systems information to boot? Whaaaaat???

-Did they name the Kaiju in the film? I don't remember them doing that (but then again, I started to lose investment pretty quickly). All I remember them referring to the Kaiju were by category. If there's some sort of EU material out there, that's fine, but why leave it out of the movie?
Raleigh Beckett(the protagonist) had a really weird style of fighting, or as Mako Mori put it: "Unpredictable to the point of recklessness":he employs so many different techniques from so many different forms of combat that it's impossible to predict his movements, which is how Gipsy Danger managed to take down 4 2nd wave Kaiju in the movie.

As for everything else, to put it simply, the movie was really close to going over budget(I assume that the fight for Hong Kong was supposed to be longer, with the other Jaegers having more screentime): Del Toro is notorious for doing so.

Also the Category system is in relation to size, but, in actual fact, the Kaiju are a metaphor for natural disasters, which is why they're categorized in the same manner(as in, Godzilla was a metaphor for the way the Japanese perceived the American nuking of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, the Kaiju are metaphors for the recent natural disasters that happened in America and Japan).
 

senordesol

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Akichi Daikashima said:
Raleigh Beckett(the protagonist) had a really weird style of fighting, or as Mako Mori put it: "Unpredictable to the point of recklessness":he employs so many different techniques from so many different forms of combat that it's impossible to predict his movements, which is how Gipsy Danger managed to take down 4 2nd wave Kaiju in the movie.

As for everything else, to put it simply, the movie was really close to going over budget(I assume that the fight for Hong Kong was supposed to be longer, with the other Jaegers having more screentime): Del Toro is notorious for doing so.

Also the Category system is in relation to size, but, in actual fact, the Kaiju are a metaphor for natural disasters, which is why they're categorized in the same manner(as in, Godzilla was a metaphor for the way the Japanese perceived the American nuking of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, the Kaiju are metaphors for the recent natural disasters that happened in America and Japan).
Ah, I see...he's Bill Paxton in Twister. Joking aside, I do remember that scene describing his fighting style, but I can't recall an instance where that was translated into an actual fight. As I recall: kill #1 he shot to death, kill #2 was dispatched by the sword no one told him he had (the jerks), #3 & #4 are blurry...but I remember one of them ate it by the sword again. So it seemed to have less to do with his fighting style and more than jabbing 'em with the pointy bits or shooty bits is the way to go.

While I can appreciate budget issues can present challenges, there are some major thematic elements that were omitted here. When your heroes are totally ineffective against the enemy forces, it erodes the ability to remain in suspense when *suddenly* through no apparent new understanding of the nature of the conflict, they start wiping the floor with them. I applaud the attempt to tie the Jaeger/Kaiju conflict to the real world, but you didn't *need* Ron Pearlman to make the movie work (which, I bet, would have freed up a lot of money). You *DO* need these thematic bridges to make the movie work, however.

To me the big issues were that the tone was confused and overly oppressive. We see 4 Jaeger get KO'd before we see a single Kaiju bite it (not counting the exposition or Marshal/Mako flashback...although now that I think about it, I'm not sure if the monster in the boat scene was killed by GD or if someone else took care of it) within the context of the main story. I get that the new Kaiju were supposed to be Destroyer Class. But without seeing non-Destroyer classes get stomped for balance all we, the audience, know is that if you're going to go up against a Kaiju in a Jaeger; you're probably going to get killed...yet we see these other pilots discussed in hushed and reverent tones where Beckett isn't taken seriously at all...but they all die in 30 seconds, whereas he starts one-shotting monsters. Yeah...that's not confusing at all.

Actually, the scene I thought was the most interesting was when the Aussies bailed from their disabled mech and shot the Kaiju with a flare gun. I would have loved to have seen them do more improvised fighting like that than wrestling moves.
 

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tippy2k2 said:
From all the reviews and whatnot, it sounded kind of like the movie Crank [http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0479884/?ref_=fn_al_tt_1] where the only time someone is not getting beat up or shot is when the main character is banging someone.

That's kind of what I expected here (with giant robots of course and probably less banging since it was PG-13). It was a good movie but I think it's getting way more praise than it really should be getting...
For a split-second, I thought about the Kaiju dry-banging the Jaegers before ripping them to pieces...

OT: It's been a while since I was literally cheering during the fight sequences... The movie was awesome, to say the least... As much as I wanted it to have more Jeagers-battling-Kaiju moments, I still feel the amount that the movie had was enough to satisfy the overall length of the movie and what the movie's overall direction was to begin with...

Although, I do wish I was like my best friend going into the movie (without any prior knowledge), otherwise I would be like him when that one Kaiju grew wings and started carrying Gypsy Danger basically into space... "Oh, fuck no! Fuck that, man! Fuck this!"[footnote]He just couldn't believe his eyes when that scene happened... I was just laughing that he was saying all that throughout...[/footnote]
 

Extra-Ordinary

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Hafrael said:
Akichi Daikashima said:
I was hoping that we could get an extended edition of the movie, but with how expensive the CGI was, we most likely won't.
There is over an hour of deleted footage.

We will get an extended edition and there better be some damn Cherno Alpha.
That sounds awesome and personally, my favorite was Crimson Typhoon.
Three arms with buzz-saws for hands?
YES.

FPLOON said:
OT: It's been a while since I was literally cheering during the fight sequences... The movie was awesome, to say the least... As much as I wanted it to have more Jeagers-battling-Kaiju moments, I still feel the amount that the movie had was enough to satisfy the overall length of the movie and what the movie's overall direction was to begin with...
Heh, you know, I have a friend I HATE to sit next to during movies because the kind of guy constantly trying to outsmart the director. You know, the kind of guy who keeps saying out loud "Why would he do this?" or "Why would that happen?" and I knew he was going to have a heyday with this movie so long story short, I told him to shut up. With nicer words but that's basically what I said.
Boy, did I become a hypocrite.
I'm usually silent during movies. Not a peep from me, but there was some serious
YEEAAAHHHH!!!!
and
WOO-HOO-HOO-HOO!!!
coming from me during this movie.
And a very distraught "NOOOOOOO!!" when Crimson Typhoon went down.
Luckily though, I can't drown out an IMAX theatre (not that I tried to) so I wasn't bothering anybody.
 

FPLOON

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torno said:
FPLOON said:
OT: It's been a while since I was literally cheering during the fight sequences... The movie was awesome, to say the least... As much as I wanted it to have more Jeagers-battling-Kaiju moments, I still feel the amount that the movie had was enough to satisfy the overall length of the movie and what the movie's overall direction was to begin with...
Heh, you know, I have a friend I HATE to sit next to during movies because the kind of guy constantly trying to outsmart the director. You know, the kind of guy who keeps saying out loud "Why would he do this?" or "Why would that happen?" and I knew he was going to have a heyday with this movie so long story short, I told him to shut up. With nicer words but that's basically what I said.
Boy, did I become a hypocrite.
I'm usually silent during movies. Not a peep from me, but there was some serious
YEEAAAHHHH!!!!
and
WOO-HOO-HOO-HOO!!!
coming from me during this movie.
And a very distraught "NOOOOOOO!!" when Crimson Typhoon went down.
Luckily though, I can't drown out an IMAX theatre (not that I tried to) so I wasn't bothering anybody.
Wow... I'm usually that guy that may or may not do that during a film... but, it's mostly done when I watch it alone on DVD... My best friend, who has never spoken out loud in any movie we've seen in theaters, was literally shouting "Oh fuck no!" repeatedly when that one Kaiju showed off her wings!

But, then again, at the theater I was at, everyone was cheering throughout the movie, so yeah... This is definitely one of those movies where correct loud noises were acceptable from the audience... (The last movie, or movies, that did that, for me, were the second and third Jackass movie...)
 

mmmikey

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senordesol said:
I had a lot of problems with PR to the point where I'm actually surprised how much other people liked it. For me, most of it was either a lot of buildup with no payoff, or outright contradictions/lapses in logic.

Okay, dig this:

1. So the sallow bureaucrats decide that this wall idea is the best defense against giant monsters. Why? I didn't see any guns on the walls, I saw no reason the kaiju couldn't just climb over (not to mention: smash through). What, exactly, did they think giant, impractical, continent-spanning seawalls would do that Jaeger didn't?

2. So in the expo-intro we're told that the Jaeger are the best weapon against the Kaiju, right? So why is it for the whole movie we're only seeing the Jaeger getting their asses kicked? In every fight we're seeing own or more Jaeger getting their balls rocked. By the time they revealed the C5, I didn't really feel like the stakes were raised because at that point it was just a larger shoe sized being buried in their already abused cracks (and it could have just been a C3 for the difference it made to the plot).

3. What's the deal with drifting? I thought the premise was that you had to be super close and emotionally in-sync with your partner, yeah? They make drift compatibility a huge issue in the plot. Yet, it seems that any old asshole can do it. An American can drift with a Japanese woman several years his junior, A Brit (at least I think Marshall was British) can drift with an Aussie, -Hell- a man can drift with a Kaiju with nothing but a nosebleed for his trouble. So...what was the point of bringing it up if it had no bearing on the plot (other than the oh-so-memorable character of Mako wouldn't have been a pilot otherwise)?

4. Could the story and monsters be any more milktoast? When I heard they were deliberately calling their giant monsters Kaiju, I was prepared for Gigan, Ghidorah, Biolante, or at least Mothra... not those ones specifically, but -you know- cool monsters with awesome powers that have to be overcome on a case-by-case. But no...apart from the EMP monster, they don't appear to have any special abilities. None of them are memorable (or even all that distinct) except for the one that flies. Yawn.
1. It was to draw a parallel to our world where countries are trying to build walls as borders or say many low level areas going the cheap route on sea levels rising like Venice, where they just put up walkways when the city starts to flood, rather than make effective measures to slow/stop/reverse climate changing. I think GDT said it was meant to show that bureaucrats take the easiest/cheapest path when they can.

2. We're brought into the movie at the turning point in the war. Knifehead, the first fight in the film, is the first category 3 kaiju. GD is the first Jaeger to be "bested". I think the movie goes another 5 years into the future after that when we see Raleigh at the Alaskan wall. This movie already ran over 2 hours. It would've been bloated, and without a lot of point to it, if they included showing just how much the Jaegers and their pilots kicked Kaiju ass.

3. The front half of the movie is all about finding Raleigh's best match, who turns out to be Mako, and then Mako adjusting to being in the drift/reliving past memories. I took that not being stuck in the memories was the main hurdle to jump. Both of them do it, but Raleigh breaks out of his, Mako falls deeper into hers. I guess the more you do it the easier it is to meld with others. To be fair this is the shakiest part of the whole thing. That's just how I think they intended it to be.

4. That was kinda the point. They got bigger and then were engineered to disable/overwhelm the Jaegers. The emp blast, the acid spit, the tail, flying. I get your point, I think they just wanted distinct looking Kaiju who would get in brawls with distinct looking Jaegers.
 

PoolCleaningRobot

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Dosvidonya said:
When Becket ejected he crossed universes thus putting, literally, a worlds of distance between him and the blast. Conversely, had Chuck ejected he would just be above the battle and would still be hit by the bomb. If you recall the blast literally blasted/vaporized the water aside, almost Red Sea style, so his chances of survival were pretty nil. I'm actually curious as to whether a nuke detonated underwater would actually have that effect though, that would be neat... though I wouldn't want to actually test that
Ohhhhhhh. That was the only major plot hole with the movie that really bothered me but when you put it like that, yeah his escape pod would have been vaporized

On topic, I totally loved Pacific Rim despite the movie having a few "rule of cool" moments that didn't make a lot of sense
 

Thomas Hardy

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senordesol said:
Okay, dig this:

1. So the sallow bureaucrats decide that this wall idea is the best defense against giant monsters. Why? I didn't see any guns on the walls, I saw no reason the kaiju couldn't just climb over (not to mention: smash through). What, exactly, did they think giant, impractical, continent-spanning seawalls would do that Jaeger didn't?

2. So in the expo-intro we're told that the Jaeger are the best weapon against the Kaiju, right? So why is it for the whole movie we're only seeing the Jaeger getting their asses kicked? In every fight we're seeing own or more Jaeger getting their balls rocked. By the time they revealed the C5, I didn't really feel like the stakes were raised because at that point it was just a larger shoe sized being buried in their already abused cracks (and it could have just been a C3 for the difference it made to the plot).

3. What's the deal with drifting? I thought the premise was that you had to be super close and emotionally in-sync with your partner, yeah? They make drift compatibility a huge issue in the plot. Yet, it seems that any old asshole can do it. An American can drift with a Japanese woman several years his junior, A Brit (at least I think Marshall was British) can drift with an Aussie, -Hell- a man can drift with a Kaiju with nothing but a nosebleed for his trouble. So...what was the point of bringing it up if it had no bearing on the plot (other than the oh-so-memorable character of Mako wouldn't have been a pilot otherwise)?

4. Could the story and monsters be any more milktoast? When I heard they were deliberately calling their giant monsters Kaiju, I was prepared for Gigan, Ghidorah, Biolante, or at least Mothra... not those ones specifically, but -you know- cool monsters with awesome powers that have to be overcome on a case-by-case. But no...apart from the EMP monster, they don't appear to have any special abilities. None of them are memorable (or even all that distinct) except for the one that flies. Yawn.
For myself I like to try and explain things "in universe before bringing up anything that may be an allegory to the real world:

1) Remember the line "Jaegers are being destroyed faster than we can build them" and Stacker's line "we put those things together in 14 months"? A Mk. 5 Jaeger would probably take billions of dollars and at LEAST 18 months to build. If Jaegers are dying so fast that there are only 4 working models in the WHOLE WORLD (3 of whom had to be pulled out of mothballs) I can DEFINITELY see why politicians would look for ANY other option. I mean seriously, they were desperate enough to keep NEWT GEISLER on staff!

Secondly, I think that the purpose of the walls was to just slow the kaiju down so that they could be destroyed with plane and ship-based "anti-kaiju" weapons not shown in the film. Needless to say though the Sydney Cat.4 kaiju blowing through a "Cat.3-rated" wall is a blatant Hurricane Katrina reference and how walls are never adequate protection compared to taking direct action.

2) The movie lays out that Jaegers WERE the best weapon against kaiju. That is obviously no longer the case. After all, if the heroes have a measurable ADVANTAGE over the bad guys you lose a lot of story tension compared to the hero being the underdog. Even Superman has to look like he MIGHT lose this time if you're going to keep an American audience interested.

3) I wish Moviebob's description of drifting had actually been in the movie. A Jaeger is only as good as the pilots and the pilots are only as good as their training and how well their fighting ability is in sync. The movie hints that back in the "glory days" it was less of an issue among veteran pilots (i.e. "three pilot trials") When there's only 4 machines left on the planet though, you want your Jaeger teams to be at their absolute best. Essentially it's just plain "Worth The Trouble".

As far as I can see Drifting itself is possible between any life-forms with with the right software but being "drift compatible" is being able to anticipate what another person is going to do without any need for verbal or non-verbal communication. You'll note that the first American pilots were either Navy or Air Force twins but by the time we first see Gypsy the world is down to a pair of drift-compatible brothers who probably learned all their combat training in bar fights. Twins have LITERALLY the same brain biologically and virtually identical life experience. Aside from twin MMA fighters or Special Forces soldiers though, not many people will have the combat ability to take on Kaiju. The bit with Striker at the end is IMO bad writing because it relies on the audience to just accept that as one of the last Mk. 1 pilots and as the only pilot to survive fighting in a Jaeger solo for THREE HOURS Stacker Pentecost is some kind of "USB Super-Pilot" in order to clear the way for a "heroic sacrifice" end-game.



!!!MASSIVE SPOILERS!!!

Unfortunately how the movie goes about it begs the question of whether or not humans and KAIJU can be drift-compatible now. According to the apocrypha Geisler is one of the worlds leading experts on kaiju biology and Gottlieb is the GUY WHO INVENTED JAEGERS. During the course of the movie their minds were connected to the Kaiju hive-mind for about five or ten minutes. If the Kaiju are biologically programmed to evolve and adapt like the Zerg, what exactly might they DO with that knowledge? And would they see us as potential ALLIES or potential COMPONENTS and is there a difference to the Kaiju? BTW anyone else find it TOO convenient that the first-ever PREGNANT kaiju suddenly arrives right after Newt connect to the hive-mind and realizes he needs a full brain to work with?

!!!END MASSIVE SPOILERS!!!


4) This one sadly cannot be explained in-universe.

The Designs of most of the kaju are homages to "Classic" movie monsters. The movie directly says that kaiju are all ASSEMBLED TO SPEC from one massive genetic blueprint. Thus even though kaiju are "totally different" most of their biology is going to be "variations on a theme". See below (Un-sourced names are Godzilla foes):

San Franscio = Mix and match Dinosaur features
Tokyo = Ebirah / Ganimes
Knifehead = Jaws / American Godzilla (Godzilla 1998)
Sydney = Sin (FFX)
Leatherback = King Kong (King Kong)
Skin Parasite = Grant Flea / Parasite / Sin Parasite (Reality / Cloverfield / FFX)
Otachi = Clover / Fire Rodan (Cloverfield)
Baby Kaiju = Baby Godzilla (Godzilla 1998)
Raiju = Biollante (Final Form) / Godzilla '91
Scunner = Predalien (AVP Requiem)
Category 5 = Leviathan (mythology, various)

It's all there to find if you go looking for it.
The craziest thing is that you could conflate a LOT of monster movies like Cloverfield INTO the Pacific Rim Universe without missing a beat (seriously if Clover were the 4th or 5th Kaiju and had "disappeared" shortly after attacking Panama, the movie wouldn't miss a beat).
 

Sigmund Av Volsung

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senordesol said:
Akichi Daikashima said:
Raleigh Beckett(the protagonist) had a really weird style of fighting, or as Mako Mori put it: "Unpredictable to the point of recklessness":he employs so many different techniques from so many different forms of combat that it's impossible to predict his movements, which is how Gipsy Danger managed to take down 4 2nd wave Kaiju in the movie.

As for everything else, to put it simply, the movie was really close to going over budget(I assume that the fight for Hong Kong was supposed to be longer, with the other Jaegers having more screentime): Del Toro is notorious for doing so.

Also the Category system is in relation to size, but, in actual fact, the Kaiju are a metaphor for natural disasters, which is why they're categorized in the same manner(as in, Godzilla was a metaphor for the way the Japanese perceived the American nuking of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, the Kaiju are metaphors for the recent natural disasters that happened in America and Japan).
Ah, I see...he's Bill Paxton in Twister. Joking aside, I do remember that scene describing his fighting style, but I can't recall an instance where that was translated into an actual fight. As I recall: kill #1 he shot to death, kill #2 was dispatched by the sword no one told him he had (the jerks), #3 & #4 are blurry...but I remember one of them ate it by the sword again. So it seemed to have less to do with his fighting style and more than jabbing 'em with the pointy bits or shooty bits is the way to go.

While I can appreciate budget issues can present challenges, there are some major thematic elements that were omitted here. When your heroes are totally ineffective against the enemy forces, it erodes the ability to remain in suspense when *suddenly* through no apparent new understanding of the nature of the conflict, they start wiping the floor with them. I applaud the attempt to tie the Jaeger/Kaiju conflict to the real world, but you didn't *need* Ron Pearlman to make the movie work (which, I bet, would have freed up a lot of money). You *DO* need these thematic bridges to make the movie work, however.

To me the big issues were that the tone was confused and overly oppressive. We see 4 Jaeger get KO'd before we see a single Kaiju bite it (not counting the exposition or Marshal/Mako flashback...although now that I think about it, I'm not sure if the monster in the boat scene was killed by GD or if someone else took care of it) within the context of the main story. I get that the new Kaiju were supposed to be Destroyer Class. But without seeing non-Destroyer classes get stomped for balance all we, the audience, know is that if you're going to go up against a Kaiju in a Jaeger; you're probably going to get killed...yet we see these other pilots discussed in hushed and reverent tones where Beckett isn't taken seriously at all...but they all die in 30 seconds, whereas he starts one-shotting monsters. Yeah...that's not confusing at all.

Actually, the scene I thought was the most interesting was when the Aussies bailed from their disabled mech and shot the Kaiju with a flare gun. I would have loved to have seen them do more improvised fighting like that than wrestling moves.
Well, I agree that it isn't as well communicated as it could be that Beckett has an unorthodox fighting style, the most of this that we get to see is during the Hong Kong battle: he uses the tanker as a baton against Otachi, and the containers against Leatherback.

Also, Ron Perlman is a badass, and has a really good relationship with Del Toro, so I think he was picked more because of that, rather than for "star power", also because he's fun in these sort of things.

Everything else, yeah, it did kind of suck that we didn't get to see more 1st Wave Kaiju get their asses kicked, but I think they were saving that for the next movie they will make.
 

Terratina.

RIP Escapist RP Board
May 24, 2012
2,105
0
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The only thing I had a problem with was the fact that they all decided for the 'new' Jaegers to not have an independent power supply.

And man, that bit them in the ass.
 

PedroSteckecilo

Mexican Fugitive
Feb 7, 2008
6,732
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What weirds me out is how many people keep calling Pacific Rim a "ripoff" of Evangelion... I mean seriously? Is Eva the ONLY super robot show people are familiar with these days? (Not meaning to knock Eva itself or the fans, even one of my best friends whom I saw the movie with immediately made the Eva comparison)

Personally it reminded me a lot more of... wait for it...

Goddanner! It's got mysterious monsters that primarily emerge from the ocean, international 2 Person Teams that are more powerful based on their relationship with each-other... all it really lacks is the excessive Fan-service present in that show.

Also it's got a ton in common with the Getter Robo, I mean the Kaiju are pretty damn close to an Extra-Dimensional Dinosaur Empire.

Basically it definitely swipes a LOT from Super Robot Anime... but it's really got almost nothing in common with Eva itself as Eva, like Anno's other work Gunbuster, is a deconstruction/celebration of Classic Super Robot Anime hence why its a lot about the mental trauma of teenagers piloting giant robots rather than straight up HOT BLOODED ACTION, Pacific Rim is far more HOT BLOODED ACTION than it is a deconstruction... as the international movie going public isn't familiar enough with Super Robot Anime for it to be necessary to deconstruct it on film.

Captcha: Oh hell no, I'm a BBQ connasuer, I refuse to refer to Montanas as "my home for BBQ", New Summer BBQ Menu is much more acceptable.
 

Ldude893

Elite Member
Apr 2, 2010
4,114
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Storywise, it was absolutely cliched, and I've seen the character archetypes done over-and-over in other films. It's not particularly deep, it's predictable at points, and in film standards the plot is on the same tier as a generic action movie.

Enjoyment-wise? Sweet Jesus, I think it's going to be awhile for another giant robot-monster movie to top Pacific Rim. This is the movie that does giant monster fights right. It's the type of movie that knows that its underlying concept is childish, but rather than reject it the film indulges in it and ramps up the absurdity levels till it's amazing to watch.

Still, I do wish they had a more international cast who aren't all red-shirts. The first time we see the Russian and Chinese robots fight, they die within minutes. Also, I can't help but nitpick on how they depicted Hong Kong in this movie. Not that I'm grateful to see my hometown getting wrecked to pieces on-screen, but it's almost as if the people behind this movie added a bunch of cliched Chinese elements to make Hong Kong more exotic (case in point, Hannibal Chow. Also, all the civilians look like they're dressed from the 1940s and speak Mandarin instead of Cantonese)

But what the fuck, it's a movie about giant robots fighting monsters. I'd wish for a deeper film, but I'm glad I watched it.
 

DugMachine

New member
Apr 5, 2010
2,566
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While I loved the fighting, logically why the hell don't they just use the plasma cannon all the time? Gipsy Danger shot that huge ape like Kaiju multiple times and then a few extra times to make sure it was dead. I mean, had they used that at the very beginning it just melts through the kaiju. And the sword just completely destroyed every kaiju it came in contact with but they only busted it out when they were about to die.
 

Dosvidonya

New member
Nov 25, 2011
54
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DugMachine said:
While I loved the fighting, logically why the hell don't they just use the plasma cannon all the time? Gipsy Danger shot that huge ape like Kaiju multiple times and then a few extra times to make sure it was dead. I mean, had they used that at the very beginning it just melts through the kaiju. And the sword just completely destroyed every kaiju it came in contact with but they only busted it out when they were about to die.
We don't know if the Plasma Cannon can work underwater. It also seems to be really delicate, it broke pretty early in the fight with Otachi (the winged kaiju). It might be a bit risky to use in the middle of the city... I mean they got reprimanded for using it in the first fight so maybe its like ordering an airstrike in that you do so when you absolutely have to. The sword I'm with you on. However, they probably chose not to use it before so they can introduce it in an awesome fucking scene. I mean that shot could be a poster and it would be awesome.