Parents Suing Apple Over In-Game Purchasing

[Patathatapon]

Teach them to use money properly. Like on TF2 hats!

Agreed!
That's what I tell everybody, no one listens though...

 

[Irick]

I'm surprised how many people show absolutely no sympathy for the parents. I don't think it's that bizarre that parents aren't watching their children while they play videogames. If anything, I think it's pretty stupid for parents to want to control their children all the time, especially when they are on the couch, out of harm's way.

Also, I don't know the specifics of each case, but last time I checked my phone doesn't ask for a password when it urges me to buy shit I don't want.

I don't think it is bizarre either, but i'm pretty jaded as to my views on the state of modern parenting. Ideally gaming would be used as a parenting tool rather then what i see it being used today: e.g. "we're busy, here, play with this". Leaving your kid unsupervised with anything that you as a parent are not familiar with is bad parenting. Not uncommon, mind you, but bad.

The consequences of this particular symptom of negligent parenting just tend to be a bit more immediately visceral then the long term issues that arise with the same cause. This should serve more as a wake up call rather then a rally against the evil entertainment corporation doing what they do.

 

[MetalMagpie]

On the one hand, overreacting parents.

On the other hand, manipulative microtransactions.

Im not sure which side i loathe more...

It's a tough one, no mistake.

Personally, I think the whole manipulative-micro-transactions scene does sometimes stop just short of actual criminal fraud. However, so long as it does stop short of that line, then it's not really the job of law-makers to prevent asshole business strategies.

But a self-regulating industry run by responsible individuals would be nice. We can hope for that, right? Right?!

 

[MetalMagpie]

I'm surprised how many people show absolutely no sympathy for the parents. I don't think it's that bizarre that parents aren't watching their children while they play videogames. If anything, I think it's pretty stupid for parents to want to control their children all the time, especially when they are on the couch, out of harm's way.

Also, I don't know the specifics of each case, but last time I checked my phone doesn't ask for a password when it urges me to buy shit I don't want.

I think the argument here is that Apple say they have made changes so that parents can prevent their children from buying content. (Passwords, turning off in-game purchasing, etc.) Assuming that is the case (and I'm not saying it's impossible Apple are lying) then the parents have all the tools they need to leave their children unsupervised playing games, as long as they are careful to set them up.

I remember a similar fuss when a young child managed to buy a car on ebay because his dad left the computer on, with ebay open in a browser and logged in. The parents tried to blame ebay, but really it's no different to your child breaking a priceless Ming vase because you left it within their reach.

 

[CrazyGirl17]

Couldn't they just sue the people making the game? Personally, I'm suspicious of internet games that rely on real-world money to buy things...

 

[Maimer961]

Pro tip: Buy a DS, stop complaining and do alittle research first. If I ever gave my kid something expensive, I'd make damn sure it didn't give them access to my bank account. And don't let them use your username on anything...period

 

[MetalMagpie]

I'm surprised how many people show absolutely no sympathy for the parents. I don't think it's that bizarre that parents aren't watching their children while they play videogames. If anything, I think it's pretty stupid for parents to want to control their children all the time, especially when they are on the couch, out of harm's way.

Also, I don't know the specifics of each case, but last time I checked my phone doesn't ask for a password when it urges me to buy shit I don't want.

I think the argument here is that Apple say they have made changes so that parents can prevent their children from buying content. (Passwords, turning off in-game purchasing, etc.) Assuming that is the case (and I'm not saying it's impossible Apple are lying) then the parents have all the tools they need to leave their children unsupervised playing games, as long as they are careful to set them up.

I remember a similar fuss when a young child managed to buy a car on ebay because his dad left the computer on, with ebay open in a browser and logged in. The parents tried to blame ebay, but really it's no different to your child breaking a priceless Ming vase because you left it within their reach.

For the record, I'm pretty sure it's still easy as piss to buy anything in the app store. Also, am I the only one that finds the wording "leave their children unsupervised playing games" to be sort of jarring? I mean, if you can't leave your kids unsupervised while playing, when can you?

I wouldn't know (don't have an iphone) but I'm happy to take your word that Apple haven't exactly been thorough.

Sorry if my phrasing came across as jarring. I only meant what it literally says! My parents left me playing unsupervised all the time when I was little. Video games shouldn't be any different. Which is exactly why parental controls are so important.

My parents were happy to leave me unsupervised watching the cable TV because they knew I couldn't buy films (or worse, porn) without knowing the PIN (which they refused to tell me until I reached my mid teens).

 

[cidbahamut]

Parents fail at parenting, gaming industry gets given a hard time. This seems familiar.

 

[Irick]

But where does this "good parenting" end? Can we let our kids play in the park without fearing they might be raped? Can we let them stay over at a friend's house? Can they climb up a tree? Can they use a swing unsupervised?

I understand there are negligent parents but I don't want to bring up kids that are incapable of doing anything without someone's certified approval. And seriously, I know my videogames, but some of the things you might find in the Apple app store nobody would see coming.

And maybe it is pointless to sue but I still think someone has to take action to put a stop to this. These games should come with disclaimers and point out that they are not appropiate for kids.

I think I can answer this one fairly concisely actually. You no longer need to supervise your child when your child has developed enough in a facet of maturity so that you may trust them to act responsibly when given the freedom to do so. Until then, it is your job as a parent to look after them and guide them down the path to eventual autonomy.

Should parents smother their kids to the point that they no longer get the ability to strike out on their own? No. Should kids be trusted with the ability to strike out on their own when they are forming abstractions for previously concrete concepts? No.

According to Piaget, kids are not formally capable of being entirely aware as to the affects of their actions outside themselves until approximately the age of seven. As a rule of thumb, i would say wait until then to introduce kids to any sort of real responsibility, and even then keeping an eye on how they develop would be wise.

But this is beside the point. My main argument is: It is not the responsibility of Apple to parent your kids. There is no social obligation implicit or otherwise for Apple to determine what is appropriate or inappropriate for your kid. You, as a parent, can decide to trust or distrust organizations (church, ESRB, etc.) to make those sort of judgments for you but it is not part of your rights to force them to do so and repremend them legally for failing to meet your standards or act as a proxy for your will.

Beside that fundamental point, it is not as if Apple has not taken reasonable steps to address the issue. The iPhone/iPad/iPod is not primarily a children's toy. It is not reasonable to expect them to wrap the thing in foam in every aspect just because you choose to use it as such.

Personally, i find the 15 minute window a very convenient feature. I pop into the app store, buy a new game and notice that i have updates. Instead of having to re-establish my identity to the App store, i just continue with the updates. Is this feature implicitly designed to make buying things easier? Yes. Why? Because we (consumers) want it to be easy to buy things. As it stands i feel we have given enough ground to the demands of parents to make it harder for kids to do things without their oversight at the sacrifice of the convenience of the general user, and i feel slighted in the fact that i am expected to put up with increasingly less convenience to compensate for the inattentiveness of those who hand their devices off to their kids without any/much thought as to the possible consequences.

But those are just my thoughts on the subject.

 

[Sofus]

If they were so damn worried about their kids spendings then why didn't they just take away the damn phone in the first place.

It is not Apples problem that the kid is incapable of evaluating the situation at hand. If the kid is old enough to need a phone then he/she is already old enough to earn his/her own savings by having a weekend job.


Let me guess, these moronic parents are from USA or somesuch right? back here in Denmark shit like that wouldn't fly anywhere.

 

[newwiseman]

Apple needs to have an in-app purchase toggle in the general setting of the iOS not in the apps themselves.

As much as I hate the monetization at work in these games it is where the majority of those developers income comes from, for better or worse, and outlawing the practice all together is not the answer.

The real problem is that parents are so quick to hand off the virtual baby sitter, stay out of my hair, devices that they don't even bother to familiarize themselves with the actions they need to take to defend their wallets and their children from influences they feel are questionable. But when most parents now days are as equally immature as their entitled brood; what more can we expect. The whole culture is trained to blame someone else before excepting any responsibility. That was the whole point of the South Park movie.

To quote Bender, "Parents haven't you ever tried just sitting down with your kids, and hitting them?"

But, what do I know, I'm just a technology support specialist, in a predominantly Apple environment, who has worked eight hours a day in public middle schools for 4 years... Someone help me.

You know some parents actually use tablet PCs as learning tools for their ASD children?

Don't just assume it's all snot-nosed brats, there are some legitametly good parents stung by this, and why i think microtransaction games are such awful ideas.

And I hope you know that we use them in an education setting and that they can be set up using multiple iTunes accounts very easily so that kids don't have direct access to their parents credit cards. Ignorance is no excuse.

 

[Zenn3k]

So yes parents are apparently fine with their money being thrown away as long as their selfish little groin spawn aren't the ones doing it.

Groin spawn! Genius!

 

[Sofus]

Well if they can actually prove these games have actual addictive qualities they might have a lawsuit. I've been fairly concerned about alot of these social games having subliminal messaging in them. Because I have seen people addicted to them to the point of it being a chemical addiction. As for it being all the parents fault. I don't quite know. Large corporations exploit, its what they do.

Subliminal messages are illegal to use. No game in existance is capable of creating an addiction in a perfectly normal human being. The person playing a game can however become addicted to the drugs that the brain itself releases.

 

[Dastardly]

Apple has declined to comment on the case, having already asked that it be booted from the justice system in light of the changes made to its in-app purchasing systems. Do the parents have a point? Should games which feature potentially manipulative in-game purchase systems be targeted at children?

And there, you've hit at the core of it.

Television commercials target kids, but (in general) televisions are in common rooms so that parents can easily monitor it. Computer games are often in off-common rooms, and are on smaller, more private screens. Supervising every single minute at the computer is just a bit tougher -- and believe me, as a teacher, I'm extremely tough on parents about supervision, so it's no small thing for me to admit it's harder to do here.

The problem is that companies know that. I don't have a problem with marketing that is meant to appeal to kids. I do have a problem with directly marketing to kids. Would you want an advertising executive or a lawyer to be able to call your child on a cell phone, or meet them on the playground, to discuss things? No. Because those people have no business engaging in financial dealings with children (who are easily misled by adults).

Now, Facebook games? They may be kid-friendly, but Facebook makes it pretty clear that kids shouldn't have Facebooks. The fact that so many parents ignore that is on them. But true "kid games" should not have real-money options waving in the face of kids.

There's already a ton of ways marketing exploits the gullibility of children. Cartoons are blatant commercials for toy lines. Commercials show toys doing things they can't actually do, and they put the tiny disclaimer at the bottom to cover their butts. Cereals have cartoon mascots to push an appeal that has nothing to do with whole grains.

I'm not saying this kind of stuff needs to be illegal, but we all know exactly what they're doing. By "we," I mean adults. It's natural for the marketing folks to put a spin on the product, but kids are far more susceptible to spin than adults. It would be irresponsible of us to allow them to target our kids unchecked.

 

[Britisheagle]

Normally I'd disagree and say that the parents are over reacting, but the free to play, pay to win games dominating the app store are beyond a joke and are clearly aimed at those who are easier to manipulate.

Apple should not be taking the brunt of this, but those who are creating the games in the already over saturated market.

 

[lord.jeff]

If you have kids don't click the "save credit card info" box, in fact just don't click that box at all.

 

[Skratt]

In game purchases with real money is predatory and manipulative and that practice should be illegal. They don't even need to go after the individual developers to enforce it. Just go after the publishers like the apple store, android markets and companies like facebook that allow these games on their network.

Buyer beware is one thing but actual proven predatory commercial practice is morally, ethically and in some cases already illegal - as it should be.