Pat Condell on Bin Laden

[BlueberryMUNCH]

Heya guys.

So, some of you might know of Pat Condell: famous internet atheist and all that.

He's just released his thoughts on Bin Laden, and as always, it was an entertaining watch; I agree with pretty much everything he said.

The entire argument that the murder of Osama was wrong just infuriates me, and I could really rant all day about it.

I was listening to the FNG podcast last night http://fng.podbean.com/, and they said something that got me thinking.

After the death of Hitler, everyone in the streets was celebrating and everyone saw it as a happy moment; it was a happy, celebrated occasion.

So why are so many people getting aggravated over the death of Bin Laden?
Now I know that the two can only be loosely compared, but the message was still the same, right?
Seems like people these days really need to man up. Bleh.

So yeah
/rant.

And what are your thoughts?
[sub]I'm British, by the way[/sub]

 

[Hero in a half shell]

I think it's the idea that we have become so opposed to someone we have never met, who lived halfway across the world, and the only information we have had about him has been from the media, that his death is a cause for celebration. America just flew into a foreign country and shot him dead, didn't try to arrest him or try him, just gave him the death sentence in a place that wasn't even their country, It's worryingly close to Judge Dredd style justice.

Whether or not Osama deserved to die or not is not really the issue, it's that America was able to march into another country, shoot him when he wasn't an immediate threat to them, and leave without repercussions.

 

[Jordi]

Did you notice that the guy in the video pretty much only gives his opinion, but doesn't really use any actual arguments to back it up?

I very much agree with "Hero in a half shell". If you want to be the good guy, you need to act like the good guy. That means that they should have tried to arrest Bin Laden. They could have still sentenced him to death for all I care, but that is the way a civilized country should act. If Bin Laden posed any threat during the operation (e.g. he shot at them) I'd be totally fine with it if he got killed. But the intention should have been to arrest him.

The information that came out after the event seemed a little lacking to me. Also, their doubt about releasing pictures just appears weak. I don't really care what they would have decided, but seriously, they should have thought about it before it all happened.
Large groups of Americans partying in the streets like they are (some) groups of muslims celebrating 9/11 is a little sad, but it's probably not the majority of people and you can always find groups like that. I also don't think it is as bad as those muslims, because they are celebrating the death of 1 very guilty man, instead of the deaths of 3000 innocent people.

People in the rest of the world that complain about that are just looking for something to accuse the US of, I think. But the "assassination is not justice" argument I agree with.

 

[Kathinka]

After the death of Hitler, everyone in the streets was celebrating and everyone saw it as a happy moment; it was a happy, celebrated occasion.

So why are so many people getting aggravated over the death of Bin Laden?
Now I know that the two can only be loosely compared, but the message was still the same, right?
Seems like people these days really need to man up. Bleh.
[sub]I'm British, by the way[/sub]

as you recognized, bin laden is not hitler.
hitlers death was connected to the end of the world war, years of horror and unimaginable cruelty come to an end. bin ladens death will do absolutely nothing.
secondly hitler was a clear evil, disposed of by an alliance of not-so-evil nations.

not saying that bin laden is nice or anything. was he a bad guy? absolutely. is the usa any better with invading of countries for political and economic advantages, forging, cheating and lying to the international community, torture and that little concetration camp project? no. that's why many people of the world shrug and shake their heads when americans pretend like they just did a huge service to the world.

 

[ryai458]

I think it's the idea that we have become so opposed to someone we have never met, who lived halfway across the world, and the only information we have had about him has been from the media, that his death is a cause for celebration. America just flew into a foreign country and shot him dead, didn't try to arrest him or try him, just gave him the death sentence in a place that wasn't even their country, It's worryingly close to Judge Dredd style justice.

Whether or not Osama deserved to die or not is not really the issue, it's that America was able to march into another country, shoot him when he wasn't an immediate threat to them, and leave without repercussions.

Its good to have the most advanced and well trained military on the world and enough nukes to split this planet in half.

 

[TheRealCJ]

Oh ffs.

The death of Bin Laden is NOT the same as the death of Hitler. Okay, listen carefully:

Hitler died because he chose to kill himself after the Red Army rolled into Berlin, effectively ending the European war. People weren't celebrating the death of a single man, they were celebrating The end of a years-long war that had claimed millions of lives already.

The "War on Terror" is by no means over, not even close. I'll celebrate when all the troops are pulled out of battle and peace is declared.

 

[Woodsey]

I think I've seen a few of this guy's videos before, and I'm pretty sure he's a thinly-veiled prick (and a poorly-concealed racist if I remember correctly). Should probably get himself some new curtains.

Anyway, if we just kill the people who kill, we aren't much better - especially if they're unarmed, as I believe he was. As for the street parties and stuff, I get it, but I still find it distasteful.

 

[VanityGirl]

I think it's the idea that we have become so opposed to someone we have never met, who lived halfway across the world, and the only information we have had about him has been from the media, that his death is a cause for celebration. America just flew into a foreign country and shot him dead, didn't try to arrest him or try him, just gave him the death sentence in a place that wasn't even their country, It's worryingly close to Judge Dredd style justice.

Actually, we marched into a country that had our full cooperation with terrorist hunting. Pakistan promised that they would help up (I know, big help right?) and we were allowed to come in. We didn't just bust down the figurative down and say "Here's Johnny!"

 

[artanis_neravar]

Right the man who has constantly talked people into blowing themselves, who believes that the best way to get to heaven is blow yourself up and kill as man Americans as possible. Those soldiers had every right to believe that he was dangerous and had no intention of going peacefully

 

[Kolby Jack]

I consider myself an idealist, but even I'm not stupid enough to say we should've tried to arrest him. Killing him was the easiest and most practical solution. Even the CIA director said so:

CIA Director Leon Panetta stated on PBS NewsHour that "The authority here was to kill bin Laden...Obviously under the rules of engagement, if he in fact had thrown up his hands, surrendered and didn't appear to be representing any kind of threat then they were to capture him. But they had full authority to kill him."

He clearly did not throw his hands up and say "Well, you got me", so I don't see what the problem people have with killing him was. He resisted, he died, no SEALs were killed or hurt. That's what I call an exceptionally successful mission.

 

[TheRealCJ]

I consider myself an idealist, but even I'm not stupid enough to say we should've tried to arrest him. Killing him was the easiest and most practical solution. Even the CIA director said so:

CIA Director Leon Panetta stated on PBS NewsHour that "The authority here was to kill bin Laden...Obviously under the rules of engagement, if he in fact had thrown up his hands, surrendered and didn't appear to be representing any kind of threat then they were to capture him. But they had full authority to kill him."

He clearly did not throw his hands up and say "Well, you got me", so I don't see what the problem people have with killing him was. He resisted, he died, no SEALs were killed or hurt. That's what I call an exceptionally successful mission.

Goddamn, now you've got me imagining Bin Laden in a old battered top hat and bad shoes.

"It's a fair cop, guv".

 

[Kjakings]

I think it's the idea that we have become so opposed to someone we have never met, who lived halfway across the world, and the only information we have had about him has been from the media, that his death is a cause for celebration. America just flew into a foreign country and shot him dead, didn't try to arrest him or try him, just gave him the death sentence in a place that wasn't even their country, It's worryingly close to Judge Dredd style justice.

Whether or not Osama deserved to die or not is not really the issue, it's that America was able to march into another country, shoot him when he wasn't an immediate threat to them, and leave without repercussions.

Its good to have the most advanced and well trained military on the world and enough nukes to split this planet in half.

Just a shame you elect gigantic idiots like Bush to presidency - twice.

Seriously, google Bushisms and despair at your country, because no matter how stupid Bush is, you people elected him.

 

[artanis_neravar]

Right the man who has constantly talked people into blowing themselves, who believes that the best way to get to heaven is blow yourself up and kill as man Americans as possible. Those soldiers had every right to believe that he was dangerous and had no intention of going peacefully

EDIT: I apologize I only Skimmed Jordi's post, and now that I have read it I would like to rephrase my argument

Bin Laden has made his fame on using people as living bombs. His entire battle plan is to blow up Americans at every opportunity, and if they were to die in the process then that would be the greatest honor for their god. Now maybe Osama should have been arrested, but there was no way of knowing wether he would blow himself up and take the soldiers with him. In the interest of keeping our soldiers alive I believe they did the right thing. Now if Bin Laden use normal battle tactics, or even guerrilla warfare, then yes I would agree that it would be best to arrest him, but giving what we know about him and his beliefs I think the SEALs did the right thing.

 

[artanis_neravar]

I think it's the idea that we have become so opposed to someone we have never met, who lived halfway across the world, and the only information we have had about him has been from the media, that his death is a cause for celebration. America just flew into a foreign country and shot him dead, didn't try to arrest him or try him, just gave him the death sentence in a place that wasn't even their country, It's worryingly close to Judge Dredd style justice.

Whether or not Osama deserved to die or not is not really the issue, it's that America was able to march into another country, shoot him when he wasn't an immediate threat to them, and leave without repercussions.

Its good to have the most advanced and well trained military on the world and enough nukes to split this planet in half.

Just a shame you elect gigantic idiots like Bush to presidency - twice.

Seriously, google Bushisms and despair at your country, because no matter how stupid Bush is, you people elected him.

The first time he lost the popular vote, it's just our stupid electoral college concept that got him elected. And after that, we were at war and Americans usually give a president a second term during a time of war.

 

[Kolby Jack]

No matter what a man does he has the right to a trial. If they refuse to co-operate thats another matter. But Osama was unarmed! If he intended not to resist the surely he was willing to co-operate?

No, official reports said his wife charged the seals and they shot her in the leg, then Osama resisted as well so they shot him in the face. Yea, he was unarmed, but I wouldn't take any chances if I were those SEALs either. They also captured several computers, hard drives, USB sticks and other stuff which I'm sure had a lot of valuable intel on it.

Not to mention that the American Constitution doesn't apply to non-Americans (so this whole "fair trial" thing is flimsy at best), and UN "law" as far as I know doesn't prohibit the sanctioned assassination of war criminals, and even if it does... well, I'm pretty sure the UN was okay with it this time since Ban Ki-moon publicly praised the action. No laws were broken, a very evil man is dead, we got a lot of valuable intel out of it, and I STILL DON'T UNDERSTAND WHY PEOPLE HAVE A PROBLEM WITH THIS!

 

[Kolby Jack]

Just to point out this quote from the 14th Dalai Lama:

"Forgiveness doesn't mean forget what happened. ? If something is serious and it is necessary to take counter-measures, you have to take counter-measures."

THE DALAI FREAKING LAMA IS OKAY WITH IT! SERIOUSLY!