Payday 2 Crimefest Day 1: Now with Microtransactions!

[demoman_chaos]

TLDR: Boo microtransactions, weapon rebalancing is not nearly as shitty as the numbers make it seem, LUA Hook may be only temporarily disabled, TLDR's make more sense at the top than the bottom really.


A lot of kneejerk reactions here, hopefully a few people see this post. Bear in mind for the weapons I will largely be using their real life names because I don't pay too much attention to the in-game names of the guns I know.

I agree the micro-transaction thing is quite nonsense, especially since each "drill" to open costs $2.50. If it were .50 to $1 I'd be less bothered honestly but $2.50 is too much. If Payday 2 goes F2P, that would explain this change, and I have heard armor is getting the same treatment soon.

But the main reason I post is about the weapon balance. A LOT of changes do make little sense at face value, but they changes are largely for the better. Shotguns do sport very low damage, but they don't actually perform any different. The biggest difference is they have much larger spread and it feels like they have less damage at medium-long ranges (although the AA-12 couldn't take down a dozer despite me dumping a full 20 round mag into his face, which really is very bothersome). I hope they get tweaked back up to higher damage, but the low-damage ones like the AA-12 and Saiga were the only ones really hit. The Spas-12 got a really good buff, and the Street Sweeper got a lot more ammo (though less damage, as it takes a few more HE rounds to bring down a shield). Curiously the Saiga (known for being a wild ass) has much much more stability than the AA-12 (known for being nearly recoiless).

Pistols got an immense buff, a bit too much I think. They are very viable as primaries now, and the magnums are just beasty. They also have ridiculous accuracy (I have a Deagle with 100% accuracy) to boot.

The Rattlesnake finally got a buff to put it on par with the other lower damage snipers, and the WA2000 is no longer so stupidly OP (It has much higher recoil now, before it had near max stability). The DMR kits and the M14 got amazingly good boosts, making them really really darn good too.

Most assault rifles got perked up to where the AK/M4 were before, meaning they are almost all viable (Even the shitty AMCAR starting rifle). The SCAR is now FINALLY useful, as are the other heavier rifles who had really good damage boosts. However the AK (which really didn't need any help) is just stupidly overpowered, sporting unmatched damage; accuracy; and stability in its class.

The Krinkov has near the same stats despite being an SMG, putting it well above all other SMGs. The Sten used to be a hard hitting and accurate SMG much like an SMG version of the SCAR, but now it is worse than the Tommy Gun (which got a nice buff). SMGs are much like assault rifles in that the bad ones were boosted to compete with the previously good ones, but some good ones knocked down while the AK was boosted FAR FAR too high.

LMG's and the minigun got amazing boosts as well. Now they don't slow you down at all and have much better ammo pick up (the minigun now has ammo pick up). The Minigun is now useless, and all LMGs are now much much more viable (even the MG42 which would previously devour all your ammo can sustain itself quite easily with controlled bursts). Oddly the RPK is just outright better in every way (spare ammo count) than the M249, so combined with how beast the AKs are it makes me wonder if there is a conspiracy with Putin.

The grenade launchers got a helpful buff as well. Before the rounds would just go wherever. Now, they have 100% accuracy meaning they actually go where you want them to.

There are some changes that make no sense. The barrel extensions really confuse me as the high damage ones now only give 2 more damage points than the now universally installed (on my guns) Competitor's Compensator but it gives much better boosts to other stats with the high damage ones have penalties. This holds true for shotguns and pistols as well. A lot of the mods which used to be useful for a high damage setup now are junk as the boost just is not worth the big penalty.

They were trying to make all weapons viable, and the majority are. Some weapons got far too big of a boost though, which doesn't solve the problem of imbalance really as they simply moved the bar up. Cops go down stupid easy now, as they didn't get boosts like all the weapons. Similar thing with the Perk Decks, as the rebalance of those was meant to make all builds viable (except that poor shitty old Hitman deck).

Lastly, I heard (but cannot confirm) that the LUA Hook change is only for the duration of Crimefest. Once it is over, we can have our HuxHud (And other things) back.

 

[Schadrach]

It wouldn't matter if they undid all of it tomorrow. They burned all trust and goodwill anyone could possibly have had for them. And this is among the people who were willing to forgive Overkill's endless DLC, which already made the game "soft pay-to-win".

Yeah, they gutted all their goodwill.

As if all of the above wasn't enough, the update also sent weapon balance into an absolutely ridiculous state. Pistols had their damage doubled or tripled, until they can one-shot cops in the hardest difficulty. Before the patch, a few Shotguns were powerful and arguably OP; afterwards, they all have such terrible damage that there's no reason to use them. Most assault rifles are now absurdly inaccurate as well, but some of them have had their total ammo pool doubled for no immediately obvious reason.

Yeah, the weapon balance really threw everything around. Then again, who used pistols outside of stealth before? I don't play much with shotguns, but I'd heard claim that the automatic shotguns were nerfed badly, but the others weren't so bad.

Though what can I say, I haven't even swapped weapons since the patch, still using Queen's Wrath/Chicago Typewriter for loud, Gruber Kerz/Akimbo Chicano Compact for quiet like I was beforehand.

Not even the modding community can save this game now, because the update removed the LUA hook that enabled mods to work.

The current claim is that that's temporary, but at least until the end of Crimefest.

On the upside, the new filtering is nice, and the new heist is decent. It's basically an armored transport style heist but without all the deposit boxes (the trucks carry safes). They're almost guaranteed to nerf the payout on it though, it's worth nearly $10 mil on Overkill

 

[RJ 17]

*sniff-sniff*

I smell a Jimquisition episode coming. :3

Or at least a conversation about it on the podcast he does with Lara and Gavin.

Does someone want to answer that phone? Because I fucking called it! Jim's new episode is up, and guess what it's about...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v1lQ9g518cg

 

[baddude1337]

I'm still annoyed they never added half decent bot support. I get its an MP game, but games like L4D and the first Payday are still good fun solo. payday 2 is unplayable with bots, and instead of add support for better ones they have just pumped out overpriced dlc on a regular basis, which has put me off the Dev entirely.

 

[KingsGambit_v1legacy]

It is a shame that the game is in this current state. I am XI-100 so have put a fair few hours into it and it's a great, co-op FPS. I love that it's got good shooting and the ability to tailor character builds and weapons to bring different things to the team.

But the microtransactions are horrid. It is a bad system and a negative to the playerbase. First, we paid for a full game and in many cases, for much or all of the numerous DLCs; DLCs whose quality and impact has varied from the fun and worthwhile (new heists in particular) to questionable (AK/CAR Mod pack among them). A weapon skin system is not itself a bad thing, I quite like the idea of giving our guns a more individual look. But putting them behind microtransactions is frustrating. But then to cap it off, these skins have stats, meaning that someone who spends real-money to obtain these skins has an advantage over someone who does not. That it's a coop PvE game is irrelevant, it is still P2W.

I'm also a little unsure why and not a fan of many of the "rebalancing" changes. Rogue nerfed, armourer, crook and gambler buffed. Pistols buffed to ludicrous heights, many shotguns nerfed to the ground. The weapon changes are incomprehensible. All they had to do was buff the poor performing outliers, but instead they screw around with so much and in doing so break things that were fine and viable before.

And to the above poster, I agree. The bot AI has been in need of major overhaul for a while. I'm not suggesting their basic function needs changing (eg. they don't carry equipment or loot or go for objectives), but they are stupid. Since the turrets were introduced, they're AI wasn't updated, so the bots will literally stand in front turrets, in the open and tank their endless bullets since they have no behaviours to deal with them. Not only that, but they frequently have conflicting behaviours. If a human player is down, they may prioritise reviving them, but then if a special is nearby, they'll decide to kill the special. Then they'll switch to reviving again only to switch back to the special.

The game itself is fun, the weapons are satisfying, the maps are generally high quality. But there are some major issues and adding microtransactions (particularly of the P2W variety) is a huge step in a wrong direction.

 

[Atmos Duality]

And to the above poster, I agree. The bot AI has been in need of major overhaul for a while. I'm not suggesting their basic function needs changing (eg. they don't carry equipment or loot or go for objectives), but they are stupid. Since the turrets were introduced, they're AI wasn't updated, so the bots will literally stand in front turrets, in the open and tank their endless bullets since they have no behaviours to deal with them. Not only that, but they frequently have conflicting behaviours. If a human player is down, they may prioritise reviving them, but then if a special is nearby, they'll decide to kill the special. Then they'll switch to reviving again only to switch back to the special.

The game itself is fun, the weapons are satisfying, the maps are generally high quality. But there are some major issues and adding microtransactions (particularly of the P2W variety) is a huge step in a wrong direction.

For a while, I was playing mostly solo loud, with bot AI assist, so I had a pretty good idea of the AI behavior.

And Overkill did change the AI around the Dragan Pack/Bomb Heist DLC...and they made the AI more stupid.
Say, before the Dragan Pack, when a Cloaker downed me (or anyone) they would shoot the Cloaker, then pick me up.
Simple scripting logic, no?

But following the Dragan Pack...

Spoiler: Derptastic AI

1) Cloaker OHKOs player. AI Prioritizes Revive Player and moves towards that player.

2*) On route to player, AI runs a check for any number of random things:

-2a) If smoke is present around player (Cloakers frequently use smoke bombs), DON'T fire at all.
\-3a) Move to engage enemies outside of Smoke OR
\-3aII) Begin reviving player (which leads to that AI getting Cloaked themselves)

-2b) If no smoke is present, fire on Cloaker until magazine is empty (missing 80% of the shots, since their aim is crap)
-3b) Revive player
-3bII) GOTO '2*'
-3bIII) DO NOTHING.

But their favorite behavior, by far in this scenario...
-2c) Wander aimlessly and engage other enemies (Specials mostly) on route to player, get sidetracked constantly.

Long, ugly and complicated? It's even weirder with 2 players. I've had the AI get over half-way finished with reviving me just to stop for no reason and STAND there, then begin reviving again.

This one scenario is just the tip of the iceberg. I could rant at length at the sheer uselessness of the AI in all other scenarios, and that's astonishing considering how they can't do much to begin with.

The game mechanical nature of the AI heister compounds issues further.
The AI are just reskinned cops with shitloads of health and regen (and much worse aim).
Conversely, they lack things like skills, armor, and damage-gating.
That last bit is especially important, because it means they take damage from EVERY SINGLE SOURCE AND IMMEDIATELY.

Enemies with an extremely high rate of fire (like a turret) will mow down AI like grass where it would take the same enemy considerably longer to drop a player heister (even if they just stood there taking it).

 

[Mutant1988]

So now they've added the Drills (Keys) to the random drops, so that you don't have to pay for them. That still doesn't change a few very important things:

The game still has micro-transactions.

There is still a $2.50 gamble micro-transaction.
You don't know the drop chance percentages of drills (Do you even know those for safes?).
The skins still have stat boosts.
The skins are still randomly unlocked.
Now both safes and drills pad out the terrible card drop system.
The weapons are still being balanced with the stats boost in consideration.

The game is still made worse, with arbitrary limitations and altered balance, all to incentivize paying for micro-transactions.

This is just appeasement and doesn't change anything about the game design or the exploitive nature of micro-transactions. This is just adding a means to tediously grind for free, like oh so many F2P games.

 

[Loonyyy]

Yeah, this is just another of the never ending wave of bullshit they pull. Their DLC is ridiculous. The TF2 complaints about ruining the theme well apply here, and most of them are worthless trash around a theme, that just add achievements and useless crap. Despite what some people have said about "Power Creep", the best rifle in the game has pretty much always been the CAR-4, which mods into anything, and, due to fiddly details about enemy health, is one of the most effective weapons on the highest difficulty, Deathwish. Most of these guns feel like other ones, and due to the system for getting attachments, most of them are pretty useless (You're either a) waiting on a drop, and they are bullshit, and most of the time, you'll get another one of the fucking Rifle compensators or Pistol suppressors, and most of them are fucking shit or b) completing an achievement, some of which are ridiculous).

This cheap, shitty, weapon DLC, which really is just a case of skins and numbers in most cases (And now reusing DLC, oh we gave you a bow in this pack, here have another, here's another couple of crossbows too), comes out in the place of actual content, which means that players are playing the same heists. New content has often meant rehashes of current content (1-day versions of long heists), rereleasing old stuff (The new 2 "classic" heists), or tie in stuff, and a lot of it is quite low effort (Hoxton's Revenge is pretty limited, Hoxton Breakout loses it's value very quickly, the Hotline stuff is a) an annoying tie in b) adds another useless fucking heister, c) was absurdly difficult at release, and d) is really, really basic and simple, go here, do this, over and over). I doubt I am alone in saying that I could do without a bunch of samey assault rifles and stupid weapons that make the game look dumb (Miniguns, flamethrowers, fucking Rocket Launchers, stupid bows and arrows), and something new to actually play through.

This is a pretty shitty move, the bullshit gambling, the high price point, in a game which is already, including DLC, extremely pricey.

And a bunch of the other stuff has been Quality of Life stuff-bots can now trade hostages etc (Which is just a conditional statement, if there are hostages, they'll be traded. They didn't reprogram the bots).

The weapons are still being balanced with the stats boost in consideration.
The skins still have stat boosts.

I agree with everything you added, bar these two points.

As someone who has actually played post patch, the game has actually gotten easier, not harder, in particular, bulldozers are a snoozefest. I used to specifically design elements of my class around taking down dozers, especially with the Gewehr with the DMR kit, which was, and still is, very good for soloing a dozer.

Now, any idiot with a well-buffed SMG or pistol can do that. Seriously, the best weapon to use on them at the moment feels like a Desert Eagle.

A bunch of Rifles got altered, but the Car-4 needed to be changed. It was just THE gun for DW, or even if you just wanted to min-max. Rifles in general were go-to guns, and many of them were superfluous (Like the Heavy Rifles, which were pretty rarely worth it). I don't think they've fixed it all-honestly, they have too many Rifles, and most of them feel the same, and are crappy. Now at least more of them are viable, but the SMG/Assault Rifle balance seems off.

Shotguns got hit, but people are generally overstating the effects. The big one is that they're a lot less effective at range, but up close, they're still capable of getting 1-shot kills easily, especially with their spread pretty much guaranteeing headshots. Which has meant that my Loco has actually become a secondary again, rather than being basically a primary. Users with the shotgun bonuses in the Enforcer tree won't notice much, in particular, the Overkill ability means that you blast through masses of enemies with a single shot. With Underdog, it's still absolutely ridiculous. I can't speak to all the other shotguns (AA-12 seems to have been hit pretty hard), but shotguns, particularly as a secondary, needed a nerf, they were basically a default, there was no reason to use an SMG for anything, and no reason to use a pistol unless you had the perks, and wanted Pistol Messiah.

Pistols got a buff, they needed that, but they seem to have gone a bit far with that, and they still haven't fixed their Perk system, which is annoying as an Australian player, because one of the best perks (Sociopath), is locked behind needing Hotline Miami 2, which is a godawful system. I wouldn't mind it, because I'd buy that game, because I want it, but it was BANNED(Refused Classification). Apparently there's a way around by emailing them, which is a lovely nuisance to endure because they wanted some cross-promotional paywalls. Fugitive, for me, is still a mess of a skill tree, with most of it's skills being utter rubbish (My Brother's Keeper is the most useless fucking skill in the game-thugs do less damage, except you only see them on a couple of heists, they go down like chumps, but hit hard, and they DON'T RESPAWN, UNLIKE COPS). Tech still feels pretty awful to spec in to me, and I'm still going through these trees going, where do I waste my points on something shit, to unlock the good stuff.

Most of the stat boosts really aren't a lot, especially when you consider that they changed how a bunch of the stats apply and are displayed. Most of them are a trifling, the only one I heard of that was worrying was an ammo increase for the Thanatos. It's a pain, and silly that stat boosts are behind a paywall (Hem hem, Grenades, Mod Pack, Courier Pack, Shotgun Pack), but they're not rebalancing the game for those stat boosts. The game is still working, without skins, in every difficulty-if anything, it has become easier.

Oh, and also, the Captain, is bullshit. Fuck that.