[PC gamers pls help] First gaming PC

[Signa]

snip

I feel like the information you took issue with is completely subjective to what the OP is looking for. I just outlined some facts on what to expect, along with some background information. Let's keep the bickering about controllers vs M+K and Intel vs AMD out of this thread for his sake.

 

[Phoenixmgs_v1legacy]

I feel like the information you took issue with is completely subjective to what the OP is looking for. I just outlined some facts on what to expect, along with some background information. Let's keep the bickering about controllers vs M+K and Intel vs AMD out of this thread for his sake.

All my information was factual. Companies don't use Intel because Intel is better, same with Windows as an OS. How is companies using Intel for MS Office relevant to PC gaming? You can use a controller to aim very well without any aim-assist, that is another fact (just Youtube MGO Survival if you don't believe me). KB/M is better, no doubt, but to say aim-assist is needed on a controller is a lie. And, I said Intel is better, benchmarks prove that, it's a fact. However, AMD offers for more performance per $1 than Intel, which is another fact. Any budget gaming PC uses AMD for a damn good reason.

 

[Signa]

I feel like the information you took issue with is completely subjective to what the OP is looking for. I just outlined some facts on what to expect, along with some background information. Let's keep the bickering about controllers vs M+K and Intel vs AMD out of this thread for his sake.

All my information was factual. Companies don't use Intel because Intel is better, same with Windows as an OS. How is companies using Intel for MS Office relevant to PC gaming? You can use a controller to aim very well without any aim-assist, that is another fact (just Youtube MGO Survival if you don't believe me). KB/M is better, no doubt, but to say aim-assist is needed on a controller is a lie. And, I said Intel is better, benchmarks prove that, it's a fact. However, AMD offers for more performance per $1 than Intel, which is another fact. Any budget gaming PC uses AMD for a damn good reason.

*sigh*

Dude, seriously?

 

[Phoenixmgs_v1legacy]

I feel like the information you took issue with is completely subjective to what the OP is looking for. I just outlined some facts on what to expect, along with some background information. Let's keep the bickering about controllers vs M+K and Intel vs AMD out of this thread for his sake.

All my information was factual. Companies don't use Intel because Intel is better, same with Windows as an OS. How is companies using Intel for MS Office relevant to PC gaming? You can use a controller to aim very well without any aim-assist, that is another fact (just Youtube MGO Survival if you don't believe me). KB/M is better, no doubt, but to say aim-assist is needed on a controller is a lie. And, I said Intel is better, benchmarks prove that, it's a fact. However, AMD offers for more performance per $1 than Intel, which is another fact. Any budget gaming PC uses AMD for a damn good reason.

*sigh*

Dude, seriously?

Can you not distinguish fact from non-facts?

How is saying you've never seen an AMD machine in the workplace at all help the TC?

 

[Signa]

I feel like the information you took issue with is completely subjective to what the OP is looking for. I just outlined some facts on what to expect, along with some background information. Let's keep the bickering about controllers vs M+K and Intel vs AMD out of this thread for his sake.

All my information was factual. Companies don't use Intel because Intel is better, same with Windows as an OS. How is companies using Intel for MS Office relevant to PC gaming? You can use a controller to aim very well without any aim-assist, that is another fact (just Youtube MGO Survival if you don't believe me). KB/M is better, no doubt, but to say aim-assist is needed on a controller is a lie. And, I said Intel is better, benchmarks prove that, it's a fact. However, AMD offers for more performance per $1 than Intel, which is another fact. Any budget gaming PC uses AMD for a damn good reason.

*sigh*

Dude, seriously?

Can you not distinguish fact from non-facts?

How is saying you've never seen an AMD machine in the workplace at all help the TC?

Dude, fucking stop it. This isn't the place for this. The OP was looking for advice, not a flamewar on a subpoint I made. STOP!

 

[Phoenixmgs_v1legacy]

Dude, fucking stop it. This isn't the place for this. The OP was looking for advice, not a flamewar on a subpoint I made. STOP!

This is not at all a flamewar, you just don't seem to understand what a fact is. There's no such thing as say a flamewar about the Earth revolving around the sun post 16th century because it became a proven fact.

Intel chips have better performance than AMD chips, but they cost much more. That's a fact, it's not an opinion. Thus budget gaming PCs use AMD chips. Plus, it's better to spend the saved AMD money on a better GPU, which will net you better gaming performance than a better CPU will with a weaker GPU, which is what the TC seems to be doing and that is the right move.

 

[Signa]

Dude, fucking stop it. This isn't the place for this. The OP was looking for advice, not a flamewar on a subpoint I made. STOP!

This is not at all a flamewar, you just don't seem to understand what a fact is. There's no such thing as say a flamewar about the Earth revolving around the sun post 16th century because it became a proven fact.

Intel chips have better performance than AMD chips, but they cost much more. That's a fact, it's not an opinion. Thus budget gaming PCs use AMD chips. Plus, it's better to spend the saved AMD money on a better GPU, which will net you better gaming performance than a better CPU will with a weaker GPU, which is what the TC seems to be doing and that is the right move.

Ok, I'm done. Just done. Don't bother replying back.

 

[Phoenixmgs_v1legacy]

Dude, fucking stop it. This isn't the place for this. The OP was looking for advice, not a flamewar on a subpoint I made. STOP!

This is not at all a flamewar, you just don't seem to understand what a fact is. There's no such thing as say a flamewar about the Earth revolving around the sun post 16th century because it became a proven fact.

Intel chips have better performance than AMD chips, but they cost much more. That's a fact, it's not an opinion. Thus budget gaming PCs use AMD chips. Plus, it's better to spend the saved AMD money on a better GPU, which will net you better gaming performance than a better CPU will with a weaker GPU, which is what the TC seems to be doing and that is the right move.

Ok, I'm done. Just done. Don't bother replying back.

Well, I hope you learned the difference between objectivity and subjectivity. I wouldn't have even replied back once if you hadn't said I was being subjective. I was merely correcting your "facts" like controllers needing auto-aim software to be functional. I wasn't bickering about controllers vs KB/M or AMD vs Intel; KB/M is PROVEN to be better and Intel is PROVEN to be better. I don't even PC game very much (I play almost exclusively on a console) but I am a PC tech, it just takes rather basic computer knowledge to put together and build a gaming PC; simply GPU > CPU > the rest. If I came here to bicker, I'd tell the TC to stick with consoles.

Anyways...

http://pcpartpicker.com/p/XM8Ct6

You are probably not going to do much better than the above build for that price point. It is a bit more than you need for current games as my rule of thumb for a budget gaming PC is to buy the best video card you can get for around the $100 price point, but the video card is the most important part of a gaming PC so splurging on it will net you the biggest performance boost.

 

[Ishal]

As to the question of AMD vs Intel, I find that AMD is great for gamers because they offer a lot of power for a pretty affordable price. The problem is, they fall flat when trying to do any CPU intensive tasks, like decompressing a file, or converting a video file to a different format. Conventional PC building wisdom says to go Intel i5, which probably is a better idea in the long run due to being affordable and powerful. The i5s are mid-range, and that puts them on a similar price point as the higher AMDs. The top AMDs might still out perform in a few gaming tests, but the i5 will have better general performance.

Personally speaking, I always go Intel, because I expect a lot from my PCs. Also, in all the computers I've handled on my job, I've never even seen an AMD in my professional environment. AMD just isn't keeping up in a lot of avenues.

THanks for all the help you've offered so far. It's been a great read, seriously.

Some time has passed since I made the OP, and I'm probably going to try and not go for a pre-built. I've done extensive reading on the subreddits and other places and they all seem to indicate the same things. They're capable, but they're overpriced for what you get.

Thing is, I need a new computer soon, period. I only have a laptop, and I've had that for about 7 or 8 years now. My budget might go up a little, it really depends. I'll know more after Xmas.

Ideally I'll be looking at something similar to this.

http://pcpartpicker.com/p/4pMt4D

That's from /r/Pcmasterrace on their list of builds.

Once I take the first step into the PC building realm, it's going to likely become a hobby when I finally get my full time job. I still have a lot of schooling left. So honestly learning now won't be a bad thing.

Ideally from what I've been reading, I want to make sure I get a good CPU with either 4 or 6 cores so that won't be a bottleneck. Intel seems the way to go. Same deal with the motherboard and HD. Regarding the video card I'm more flexible, but again I'd like something that would be more in range of playing games on med-high, rather than low-medium. From what I can tell the thing that PC gamers upgrade the most is the GPU and power supply to run whatever they get. Upgrading down the line is fine, it'll have to happen eventually.

I wish I could be more helpful with the info I can provide, but I don't know exactly how much this seasonal job will pay, or if they'll keep me to work part time after the holidays. The budget will likely be a bit higher than 500. I might be able to swing a 600/700 dollar rig.

However I still need to figure in the cost of a 1080p monitor, keyboard, OS, and wifi. I can wait for the extra monitor.

So I'm still very much looking around, but I appreciate the help. Sincerely. If you could modify the build I posted above to be a little better, with an Intel processor and maybe a better GPU that would be awesome. Like I said, I'm able to spend a bit more than 500 now, I think. That build posted above is called the "next gen exterminator." Cute name. But it's pretty much built to offer a better experience than what the next gen consoles provide. That's basically what I'm looking for. Any improvement on that would only have to be minor.

The only other thing I'm curious about is getting all the parts. I've never ordered stuff like this before. What happens if they send something broken? Does that happen often? Anything I should know about?

 

[Signa]

As to the question of AMD vs Intel, I find that AMD is great for gamers because they offer a lot of power for a pretty affordable price. The problem is, they fall flat when trying to do any CPU intensive tasks, like decompressing a file, or converting a video file to a different format. Conventional PC building wisdom says to go Intel i5, which probably is a better idea in the long run due to being affordable and powerful. The i5s are mid-range, and that puts them on a similar price point as the higher AMDs. The top AMDs might still out perform in a few gaming tests, but the i5 will have better general performance.

Personally speaking, I always go Intel, because I expect a lot from my PCs. Also, in all the computers I've handled on my job, I've never even seen an AMD in my professional environment. AMD just isn't keeping up in a lot of avenues.

THanks for all the help you've offered so far. It's been a great read, seriously.

Some time has passed since I made the OP, and I'm probably going to try and not go for a pre-built. I've done extensive reading on the subreddits and other places and they all seem to indicate the same things. They're capable, but they're overpriced for what you get.

Thing is, I need a new computer soon, period. I only have a laptop, and I've had that for about 7 or 8 years now. My budget might go up a little, it really depends. I'll know more after Xmas.

Ideally I'll be looking at something similar to this.

http://pcpartpicker.com/p/4pMt4D

That's from /r/Pcmasterrace on their list of builds.

Once I take the first step into the PC building realm, it's going to likely become a hobby when I finally get my full time job. I still have a lot of schooling left. So honestly learning now won't be a bad thing.

Ideally from what I've been reading, I want to make sure I get a good CPU with either 4 or 6 cores so that won't be a bottleneck. Intel seems the way to go. Same deal with the motherboard and HD. Regarding the video card I'm more flexible, but again I'd like something that would be more in range of playing games on med-high, rather than low-medium. From what I can tell the thing that PC gamers upgrade the most is the GPU and power supply to run whatever they get. Upgrading down the line is fine, it'll have to happen eventually.

I wish I could be more helpful with the info I can provide, but I don't know exactly how much this seasonal job will pay, or if they'll keep me to work part time after the holidays. The budget will likely be a bit higher than 500. I might be able to swing a 600/700 dollar rig.

However I still need to figure in the cost of a 1080p monitor, keyboard, OS, and wifi. I can wait for the extra monitor.

So I'm still very much looking around, but I appreciate the help. Sincerely. If you could modify the build I posted above to be a little better, with an Intel processor and maybe a better GPU that would be awesome. Like I said, I'm able to spend a bit more than 500 now, I think. That build posted above is called the "next gen exterminator." Cute name. But it's pretty much built to offer a better experience than what the next gen consoles provide. That's basically what I'm looking for. Any improvement on that would only have to be minor.

The only other thing I'm curious about is getting all the parts. I've never ordered stuff like this before. What happens if they send something broken? Does that happen often? Anything I should know about?

I know what I said about Intel vs AMD, but that build looks pretty hard to improve upon. I would go with this case because it's pretty awesome:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811129042

It's got a dust filter on the front, so if you put fans in the front sucking in, and have all the other fans blowing out, you minimize your dust intake by quite a bit. You just need to remember to clean it every few months, or when it needs it. I ran that case for years, and there was virtually no dust collection beyond the filter. It is a little bit of a pain to clean, because you have to take off the side panel to access the front panel, but most of that was because of how I had the PC in my room, and not any difficulties with the case itself.

I'll do a peek into Intel processors later when I get a moment. Replacing that means getting a whole new Mobo, and that could cost more to get one that supports the Intel chips. Right now, you're at a pretty sweet spot for costs of the two parts.

Edit: Yeah, stick with those parts. The CPU Benchmarks [https://www.cpubenchmark.net/high_end_cpus.html] site I'm looking at shows all similar performing Intel processors to cost as much as your processor and motherboard combined. Unless you want to shop around for a 50% off MSRP sale, but it's probably going to be more trouble than it's worth. Maybe next time when you have a bigger budget you can splurge a bit more, but the graphics is what matters mostly anyway, and you're covered on that.

On that note, the last criticism I can come up with is Nvidia Physx. It's unnecessary fluff, but I like it. I'm told there's ways to get AMD cards to do the processing, but I haven't had to look since I'm on an Nvidia card. This chart [http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/gaming-graphics-card-review,3107-7.html] shows similar performing cards on different tiers of performance. If you see any other cards that perform for the same price, it might be worth a look.

 

[Phoenixmgs_v1legacy]

The CPU Benchmarks [https://www.cpubenchmark.net/high_end_cpus.html] site I'm looking at shows all similar performing Intel processors to cost as much as your processor and motherboard combined.

Exactly what I said, which is why AMD is used for any type of budget gaming PC.

PC building is rather black and white, not much grey. I was somehow pro AMD (I think) according to you when I said Intel was better. Intel's performance is better but for value AMD can't be beat, it really makes no sense for like 90% of desktop users to even buy an Intel chip for their needs just purely based on cost alone. It's not like you would need or want Intel chip reliability as the processor is the last thing that will die on a PC, everything else will fail long before the CPU unless you just get really unlucky. I really don't understand how we were "bickering" outside of you just not wanting to admit you were wrong on a couple things.

 

[Signa]

The CPU Benchmarks [https://www.cpubenchmark.net/high_end_cpus.html] site I'm looking at shows all similar performing Intel processors to cost as much as your processor and motherboard combined.

Exactly what I said, which is why AMD is used for any type of budget gaming PC.

PC building is rather black and white, not much grey. I was somehow pro AMD (I think) according to you when I said Intel was better. Intel's performance is better but for value AMD can't be beat, it really makes no sense for like 90% of desktop users to even buy an Intel chip for their needs just purely based on cost alone. It's not like you would need or want Intel chip reliability as the processor is the last thing that will die on a PC, everything else will fail long before the CPU unless you just get really unlucky. I really don't understand how we were "bickering" outside of you just not wanting to admit you were wrong on a couple things.

Will you just shut up?! This isn't about proving anyone wrong or right or a debate about sexism. I said off the bat that the AMD build he chose was good, and that AMD was for budget builds, and you wouldn't leave me alone about it because I put my personal opinion in. You are not being helpful. At all!

 

[Phoenixmgs_v1legacy]

The CPU Benchmarks [https://www.cpubenchmark.net/high_end_cpus.html] site I'm looking at shows all similar performing Intel processors to cost as much as your processor and motherboard combined.

Exactly what I said, which is why AMD is used for any type of budget gaming PC.

PC building is rather black and white, not much grey. I was somehow pro AMD (I think) according to you when I said Intel was better. Intel's performance is better but for value AMD can't be beat, it really makes no sense for like 90% of desktop users to even buy an Intel chip for their needs just purely based on cost alone. It's not like you would need or want Intel chip reliability as the processor is the last thing that will die on a PC, everything else will fail long before the CPU unless you just get really unlucky. I really don't understand how we were "bickering" outside of you just not wanting to admit you were wrong on a couple things.

Will you just shut up?! This isn't about proving anyone wrong or right or a debate about sexism. I said off the bat that the AMD build he chose was good, and that AMD was for budget builds, and you wouldn't leave me alone about it because I put my personal opinion in. You are not being helpful. At all!

All I did was correct your "facts" and you thought I was starting some Intel vs AMD flamewar or something. It kinda does piss me off when people say you need auto-aim or aim-assist software to aim and shoot with a controller, which is such bullshit. So, yeah, you pissed me off with that, but is it really so hard to simply admit you are wrong?

 

[Signa]

The CPU Benchmarks [https://www.cpubenchmark.net/high_end_cpus.html] site I'm looking at shows all similar performing Intel processors to cost as much as your processor and motherboard combined.

Exactly what I said, which is why AMD is used for any type of budget gaming PC.

PC building is rather black and white, not much grey. I was somehow pro AMD (I think) according to you when I said Intel was better. Intel's performance is better but for value AMD can't be beat, it really makes no sense for like 90% of desktop users to even buy an Intel chip for their needs just purely based on cost alone. It's not like you would need or want Intel chip reliability as the processor is the last thing that will die on a PC, everything else will fail long before the CPU unless you just get really unlucky. I really don't understand how we were "bickering" outside of you just not wanting to admit you were wrong on a couple things.

Will you just shut up?! This isn't about proving anyone wrong or right or a debate about sexism. I said off the bat that the AMD build he chose was good, and that AMD was for budget builds, and you wouldn't leave me alone about it because I put my personal opinion in. You are not being helpful. At all!

All I did was correct your "facts" and you thought I was starting some Intel vs AMD flamewar or something. It kinda does piss me off when people say you need auto-aim or aim-assist software to aim and shoot with a controller, which is such bullshit. So, yeah, you pissed me off with that, but is it really so hard to simply admit you are wrong?

Soooo.... You keep trying to derail this thread because you want me to choke up my pride and admit I have an invalid opinion because I pissed you off? Ok dude, I'm wrong. Good job for outing me as an Intel rep. Now my kids won't get any presents this year for Christmas because of the commission I won't be getting on this sale.

 

[Ishal]

snip

One of my friends just tweeted that AMD did an update and removed the graphics drivers for his computer. He said it crippled his computer. I don't know what happened there, but have you ever heard of that happening? Just something I'm weary of.

Also a question about the Radeon R9 290 video card. It says it has 2 mini-display ports. Does that mean it offers support for dual monitors? Eventually I'd like to get another monitor and run a dual setup. I've got the desk space.

The tower looks nice, thanks for the recommendation. One of the things I fear with PC gaming is overheating my machine. Preventing dust accumulation would help work against that. Will both of those towers be big enough for the parts? They're both mid towers, but the one listed says i might not be able to use all the drive bays. Is that a problem?

 

[Signa]

snip

One of my friends just tweeted that AMD did an update and removed the graphics drivers for his computer. He said it crippled his computer. I don't know what happened there, but have you ever heard of that happening? Just something I'm weary of.

Also a question about the Radeon R9 290 video card. It says it has 2 mini-display ports. Does that mean it offers support for dual monitors? Eventually I'd like to get another monitor and run a dual setup. I've got the desk space.

The tower looks nice, thanks for the recommendation. One of the things I fear with PC gaming is overheating my machine. Preventing dust accumulation would help work against that. Will both of those towers be big enough for the parts? They're both mid towers, but the one listed says i might not be able to use all the drive bays. Is that a problem?

I'm hoping your friend just screwed up and didn't reinstall his driver properly. Both AMD and Nvidia have clients on the computer that will manage settings, as well as download new drivers when they come available. It sounds like he might have started installing a new driver, and then after the original was removed, never finished installing the new one. Not sure how he would have done that, but it's rare for the company to push out bad updates. It has happened before, so I turn off auto-updates, and manually download once an update has been around for a while, just in case.

I see 4 outputs on that card in the build you showed me (which is a 280, BTW). One DVI (pretty standard for most monitors) one HDMI (Also very standard, and you can use it to plug into your TV) and those mini display ports (Display Port being the latest/greatest video connector technology). Any monitor you buy will need to have one of those connections, or you will need an adapter to allow it to connect, depending on your options.

A mid tower is plenty for anything most people do. Full towers will have more room for extra drives, but since you have only one HDD and no DVD drives in your build, it will be hard to use all that space. I think you get 8 slots in the Antec case. BTW, you might want to get a DVD drive, unless you have an external you plan on using.

 

[RhombusHatesYou]

Will both of those towers be big enough for the parts? They're both mid towers, but the one listed says i might not be able to use all the drive bays. Is that a problem?

Unless you're planning on installing more 3.5" and 2.5" drives than will fit into a single cage (some cases you mount the drives into a cage which is then mounted in the case) it won't be a problem, and whether or not you can mount both cages in the case depends entire on the length of your GPU card.

Full towers are a waste of space unless you a) want to run a lot of drives in the case or b) are using one of the rare EATX form factor motherboards...

Oh wait, there's a 3rd reason - if you need the space for all your case mods. I mean, sure you can mount all the fan, lighting and pump control panels without sacrificing much but what about when you convince that mad mate of yours to modify a USB powered single can 'fridge' so it can be mounted in the front of your case? Or a snap-in recharge station for a 7" tablet? What if you want to run your CPU and GPU water cooling on seperate systems, both with double sized reservoirs? Yes, be very careful about getting into case modding, it's full of crazy.

 

[Phoenixmgs_v1legacy]

Soooo.... You keep trying to derail this thread because you want me to choke up my pride and admit I have an invalid opinion because I pissed you off? Ok dude, I'm wrong. Good job for outing me as an Intel rep. Now my kids won't get any presents this year for Christmas because of the commission I won't be getting on this sale.

It wasn't that you said Intel was better, which it is, but your horribly wrong line of logic. So what if all you've seen at work are Intel machines, that means absolutely nothing. Everything is black and white with numbers basically proving everything, there's really no reason to even give an opinion. If both an Intel and AMD chip have the same speed and cores, the Intel chip will perform better, but the AMD chip will be like $100 cheaper. Anyone on any kind of budget should go with AMD because you just can't beat the AMD price points, the decision just makes itself really.

---

And to the TC, there's really no reason to update most things unless they actually aren't working. I haven't done a Windows 7 update since service pack 1, there's really no reason for me to update it as long as it works. I use a 5 year old firewall because it's better than the newer firewalls. I haven't even run an anti-virus program in over 5 years on Windows PC because you don't fucking need anti-virus software, you aren't going to get a virus unless you download the damn thing yourself. And if you do get a virus, you can restore an image of your C: drive in minutes and no more virus. And, one last quick tip, NEVER PUT ANY DATA ON THE C: DRIVE, only put the OS and programs so if Windows fucks up or you get a virus or whatever, you can just freaking wipe C: and install Windows fresh (or restore an image with all your programs and settings intact) without worrying about losing any data.

 

[Signa]

Soooo.... You keep trying to derail this thread because you want me to choke up my pride and admit I have an invalid opinion because I pissed you off? Ok dude, I'm wrong. Good job for outing me as an Intel rep. Now my kids won't get any presents this year for Christmas because of the commission I won't be getting on this sale.

It wasn't that you said Intel was better, which it is, but your horribly wrong line of logic. So what if all you've seen at work are Intel machines, that means absolutely nothing. Everything is black and white with numbers basically proving everything, there's really no reason to even give an opinion. If both an Intel and AMD chip have the same speed and cores, the Intel chip will perform better, but the AMD chip will be like $100 cheaper. Anyone on any kind of budget should go with AMD because you just can't beat the AMD price points, the decision just makes itself really.

---

Of course. My advice wasn't logical to the OP's benefit, it was motivated by purely financial gain. I already admitted that to you. Once again, kudos for outing me.

 

[Ishal]

I see 4 outputs on that card in the build you showed me (which is a 280, BTW). One DVI (pretty standard for most monitors) one HDMI (Also very standard, and you can use it to plug into your TV) and those mini display ports (Display Port being the latest/greatest video connector technology). Any monitor you buy will need to have one of those connections, or you will need an adapter to allow it to connect, depending on your options.

A mid tower is plenty for anything most people do. Full towers will have more room for extra drives, but since you have only one HDD and no DVD drives in your build, it will be hard to use all that space. I think you get 8 slots in the Antec case. BTW, you might want to get a DVD drive, unless you have an external you plan on using.

Any monitor will need one mini display port to connect to another monitor?

Which reminds me. I'll need to shop around for those as well. All I need it one that is 1080p. But I'd like it to be decent sized.

Something like this.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824160170&nm_mc=KNC-GoogleAdwords-PC&cm_mmc=KNC-GoogleAdwords-PC-_-pla-_-LCD+%2f+LED+Monitors-_-N82E16824160170&gclid=CjwKEAiAnqWkBRCGm5uyu5r13jsSJACBZ4WykoJK3DkJN3FVbmOuG9h0iAaWoJ4atPcVVuBIpQ0FtxoCGyHw_wcB

Anything around that but a bit less would be good.

Does the tower and setup come with a CD drive? Or is that what you're recommending with the DVD drive?

The only other thing I think I'll need to nail down is the OS. I'm hoping to get a cheap one, but I don't know what I should go for. I'm not hearing good things about Windows 8. Not that it's bad, it's just... not good. Do any games require certain OS's to run properly?