PC gaming....could things be better?

[Hagi]

thats the thing though...I have no problems playing an action game like darksiders or batman AA with a mouse/keyboard..and even if it is such an issue you can just get a gamepad

the reason those genres are still PC-centric is because they are best played on a PC

as for the other genres..theres no reason they cant be on PC...I think it just comes down to crappy ports and all the other problems assosiated with PC gaming..not the games themselfs

I like to have variety in gaming

Welcome to capitalism I guess, the reason those other genres either get crappy ports or don't appear on PC.

Why would people spend extra time and money making good ports? All their customers will still either buy the crappy port or just get it on a console.

For some games there's simply no advantage to ensuring a good PC version. People will still buy their game anyway. They'll just get extra piracy from that version. They'll just get lots of bad media for any DRM they implement to counter that piracy. They'll just spend lots of time and money on something that gives them nearly no benefit, time and money that could be better spend on creating other games.

For games without modding, without a serious competitive scene, without extreme graphics and without a need for mouse/keyboard why would you ever want to release them on PC besides as a nice gesture towards gamers which won't get you any good media attention anyway as they'll just whine about the DRM and flaws in the porting? There's simply no good reason at all to do so.

 

[scott91575]

I don't think PC gaming is dying in any way. I just think it's finding a new balance.

PC gaming just isn't, and hasn't been for a while now, king of the hill any more. And both gamers and developers are still having trouble adjusting to that. Some are overestimating that and see PC gaming as near death, while others refuse to admit it's happened and think we're still in PC gaming's 'golden days'.

Truth is that for several genres I think you can safely say they've found new, and better, homes on the console. But there's still a lot left on the PC, just not as much as previously.

RTS, although a smaller genre, is still PC gaming territory.
Games like DOTA, HoN and LoL are extremely popular and basically PC-only.
The modding community, though not extremely big, is very active and on the PC.
Competitive gaming is, as far as I know, still firmly done on the PC, with the possible exception of fighting games.
High graphics games, like say Crysis was, are also still PC territory.
MMOs are basically PC-only when you get down to it.

PC gaming is alive and well, it's just taken a different role in gaming.

Back to my point from my last post, developers go where the user base is. Consoles gained a foothold by providing something most people did not have and did it cheap. That is no longer true. The amount of PC's sold worldwide dwarfs consoles, and the vast majority of them are now very gaming capable (think about this, there have been more computers sold this year than PS3's over it's entire life). The only reason why FPS and other games shifted to console was the user base. Without that, there is no reason to be there. The PC has the same capability to play any console game, can use a gamepad, etc.

The genres that benefited PC's may have kept it on life support, but in the future there is no reason for a genre to stick to consoles unless there is a user base to support it.

 

[Hagi]

Back to my point from my last post, developers go where the user base is. Consoles gained a foothold by providing something most people did not have and did it cheap. That is no longer true. The amount of PC's sold worldwide dwarfs consoles, and the vast majority of them are now very gaming capable (think about this, there have been more computers sold this year than PS3's over it's entire life). The only reason why FPS and other games shifted to console was the user base. Without that, there is no reason to be there. The PC has the same capability to play any console game, can use a gamepad, etc.

It may happen in the future, but I think that for now PC gaming still has too many downsides. Most PC users don't game beyond casual games. Those that do game seriously often generate bad media attention due to DRM and/or flaws in porting. A large enough amount of those that do pirate. PCs have many hardware configurations, even with DirectX and the OS providing doing a lot of the adapting it still means extra work. And probably more reasons.

All in all I think that, at the moment, developing games for consoles first is just easier. There's no DRM troubles, little piracy troubles, a single hardware configuration etc.

For some games it's just easier, for developers and gamers both, to develop for the console. And in this case easier often means more profit, and this is still an industry.

 

[scott91575]

Back to my point from my last post, developers go where the user base is. Consoles gained a foothold by providing something most people did not have and did it cheap. That is no longer true. The amount of PC's sold worldwide dwarfs consoles, and the vast majority of them are now very gaming capable (think about this, there have been more computers sold this year than PS3's over it's entire life). The only reason why FPS and other games shifted to console was the user base. Without that, there is no reason to be there. The PC has the same capability to play any console game, can use a gamepad, etc.

It may happen in the future, but I think that for now PC gaming still has too many downsides. Most PC users don't game beyond casual games. Those that do game seriously often generate bad media attention due to DRM and/or flaws in porting. A large enough amount of those that do pirate. PCs have many hardware configurations, even with DirectX and the OS providing doing a lot of the adapting it still means extra work. And probably more reasons.

All in all I think that, at the moment, developing games for consoles first is just easier. There's no DRM troubles, little piracy troubles, a single hardware configuration etc.

For some games it's just easier, for developers and gamers both, to develop for the console. And in this case easier often means more profit, and this is still an industry.

I won't argue that in their current forms consoles are better for developers and publishers. Yet PC gaming even in it's current form is strong enough to survive, and has huge upsides in the future. So PC gaming, in essence, will get better (per the question of the thread), and consoles will suffer. Right now is the pinnacle of console gaming. I don't see that lasting.

Although a new trend will soon follow. A pullback in graphics innovations on PC. You have already seen that with WoW, and heck even saw that with consoles (Wii). Just look at SWTOR. It is in no way a graphics masterpiece. Yet the user base is huge. I feel in the next 10 years PC gaming will be on the uptick, but graphics will take a backseat in order to reach the largest audience. Currently advanced graphics are a huge selling point for PC gamers. As the genre grows again, developers will look to maximize the user base and release games that can be played on older tech to reach to maximum numbers of players.

Sure, there will always be a few niche games that go for the hardcore crowd with kickass hardware, but you will see more developers meet older hardware requirements on PC.

 

[Mistermixmaster]

I don't think it's dying or whatever, but there is one thing that instantly sprung to mind with the whole "PC gaming... could things be better?"-thread headline.

ALLOW PS3 CONTROLLERS TO BE USED. I'm forking sick and tired of patching games and adding files for (almost) every single game I want my PS3 controller to be used for. Developers, learn from the bloody indie-games crowd, they got it all figured out allowing me to use my PS3 controller. I know you might be competing with Sony and all, but jeez. I'm not even asking for the sixaxis support, just the bloody buttons and analog sticks and I'd be happy. *sigh* Games like Bastion is better played with a gamepad y'know, and only allowing the xbox controller to be an acceptable substitute is BS.

[/rage-venting complete.]

 

[Vault101]

thats the thing though...I have no problems playing an action game like darksiders or batman AA with a mouse/keyboard..and even if it is such an issue you can just get a gamepad

the reason those genres are still PC-centric is because they are best played on a PC

as for the other genres..theres no reason they cant be on PC...I think it just comes down to crappy ports and all the other problems assosiated with PC gaming..not the games themselfs

I like to have variety in gaming

Welcome to capitalism I guess, the reason those other genres either get crappy ports or don't appear on PC.

Why would people spend extra time and money making good ports? All their customers will still either buy the crappy port or just get it on a console.

For some games there's simply no advantage to ensuring a good PC version. People will still buy their game anyway. They'll just get extra piracy from that version. They'll just get lots of bad media for any DRM they implement to counter that piracy. They'll just spend lots of time and money on something that gives them nearly no benefit, time and money that could be better spend on creating other games.

For games without modding, without a serious competitive scene, without extreme graphics and without a need for mouse/keyboard why would you ever want to release them on PC besides as a nice gesture towards gamers which won't get you any good media attention anyway as they'll just whine about the DRM and flaws in the porting? There's simply no good reason at all to do so.

I understand

its just I really dont agree when somone says "well you know, PC's are better for FPS, RTS and MMO's while consoles are better for racing and action games[/B]" when they really arnt...its just the crappy port issue and even then thease games are still more than playable (most of the time)

 

[weker]

WOW and famville dont= pc gaming being alive and well

I don't understand why WoW and farmville wouldn't mean that pc gaming is healthy after all loads of people play them. Apart from that PC gaming is great it generates more income then each of the consoles and is getting better due to games like The Witcher, Hard Reset, Minecraft, Terriria, EYE Divine Cybermancy and so far you can't get any of these on consoles.
Also Battlefield 3 needs to be played on pc now for the correct experience.

WOW and farmville are imensly popular and exclusive to PC but not everyone likes thease casual games or MMO's (myself included)

so when somone uses them as an argument in favor of PC gaming going well it doesnt give me much hope...it means Id have to turn to consoles for my big story driven blockbuster games

But such an arguments seems silly, as I can turn your complaint around saying "there isnt enough games like farmville and WoW" on consoles and then proclaim their in a dire state. this statement can be used for WII even better. The games don't suit what you enjoy doesn't mean the platform is doing badly.

 

[kayisking]

The thing is, it fully dying would actually be beneficial to PC gamers, for the same reason Arcade gaming dying was beneficial to arcade gamers; consoles learned from them, and gained all their benefits with only a few of their drawbacks.
Just let it happen already.

To learn from others they need to die first? Well I can't help but wonder what school you attended... or maybe it's best we don't know that.

The only thing I want to see is some brains being put into the games, there is somuch asinine stupidity going around it feels like the build up of everything developers figured out sofar is just being thrown away.
It's not like PC doesn't get enough games, they are just from the ever predominant ShitePort Studios.

No, I phrased that poorly. Arcades died because we learned from them, and surpassed them in every way, and now the same thing is happening to the PC.
Circle of life.

PC hasn't been surpassed. Console controls are far more clunky (with notable exceptions when a controller is superior), more expensive (that's the truth, don't deny it console guys, the expense of upgrading your PC is over exaggerated) and more graphically restricted.

The only way console gaming surpasses PC gaming is in it's actual library, which is superior due to the amount of crappy PC games which come from console ports, or even worse, console exclusives, which is an issue developers will have to tackle or risk losing a substantial part of their audience.

I would not say their library is superior. Sure, they have the most Triple AA games but we have much more variation then the console. Esspecially if you count the indie scene.

 

[Vault101]

WOW and famville dont= pc gaming being alive and well

I don't understand why WoW and farmville wouldn't mean that pc gaming is healthy after all loads of people play them. Apart from that PC gaming is great it generates more income then each of the consoles and is getting better due to games like The Witcher, Hard Reset, Minecraft, Terriria, EYE Divine Cybermancy and so far you can't get any of these on consoles.
Also Battlefield 3 needs to be played on pc now for the correct experience.

WOW and farmville are imensly popular and exclusive to PC but not everyone likes thease casual games or MMO's (myself included)

so when somone uses them as an argument in favor of PC gaming going well it doesnt give me much hope...it means Id have to turn to consoles for my big story driven blockbuster games

But such an arguments seems silly, as I can turn your complaint around saying "there isnt enough games like farmville and WoW" on consoles and then proclaim their in a dire state. this statement can be used for WII even better. The games don't suit what you enjoy doesn't mean the platform is doing badly.

true...it just comes down to taste

if a platform (like the wii) limits the kind of games on offer...like the "core AAA" games then it is no longer a major player...well among the "core crowd" (sales says otherwise)

because I am a horrible persona and really dont like/have zero interest in most indie games Ill go where the big boys are, of coarse things can change......

 

[Hagi]

Actually no, used game sales are increasing as well as development costs. Consoles relied on simple tech to work and now its so complicated and run by big business it can't turn back anymore. Its rock and moore's law. The fact that only AAA games work on consoles, coupled with the rising price tag to make a AAA game means that it wont end well.

Every market has a downside, there is no escaping it.

You're forgetting things like XBLA and PSN. Both of them offer games at much smaller price tags, just like PC gaming.

I think PC gaming will see an increase in the future, but right now? Consoles are where the money is, so that means most big games, with a few exceptions that require PC functionality, will be developed first for the consoles.

My guess would be that by the next generation of consoles games will start to be developed for PCs first again as technology improves, always-online becomes something that can be relied upon etc.

But right at this moment? Consoles simply offer more advantages for a lot of games.

 

[Iampringles]

I think it would improve the industry dramatically if a decent gaming rig was cheaper.

 

[Ridgemo]

If i could whack a game onto my PC and know that it'd work perfectly, i'd happily game on my PC. I'm not foolish enough to think i could buy a four year old machine and have stuff like Witcher 2 work on it, but why on my mates machine does Batman Arkham Asylum work fine but f1 2010 runs like a big pile of arse?

That's what i like about consoles, no fucking about, just whack the game in and play.

 

[veloper]

some people will say PC gaming is dying, some people say the oposite...(as far as im concerned WOW and famville dont= pc gaming being alive and well)

If you count digital sales (Steam etc.) PC games sell roughly on par with the xbox 360, not even counting MMOs and facebook games.

EA released data on their sales not too long ago. Basicly profits from PC games are roughly 2/3 of the 360 or ps3.
http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2011/07/27/eas-non-gaap-figures-pc-beating-consoles/

PC gaming has always done well. It's just that for a long time everyone forgot to count digital sales figures, painting PC gaming half it's actual size.

but this isnt about that really, just looking at the state of things, and given the choice what things would you do/add or remove to improve the state of PC gaming? how would you prevent it from "dying" if thats where you think its headed

Im thinking is it such a good thing that steam as a monopoly? that some people wouldnt even bother buying games if it wasnt on steam?

It's not a monopoly when there's several competitors, who don't face a single external obstacle.
Gamer's Gate, Direct2drive, Stardock and others aren't being pushed out. It's just that Valve do a better job (and most of that is simply better PR with PC gamers).

do publishers need to cut out DRM all together? do we need devs to focus more on the PC platform?

I don't like DRM, but it's not hurting PC gaming. Very few people are "boycotting" the big developers and nobody cares.

Nothing needs to be done really. Consoles are nolonger following the 5 year cycle, which is more like becoming an 8 year cycle and PCs capable of playing all the fancy new games are only becoming cheaper and more user friendly all the time.
The PC is only becoming more attractive as a gaming platform the longer Sony and M$ delay.

 

[Vault101]

Actually no, used game sales are increasing as well as development costs. Consoles relied on simple tech to work and now its so complicated and run by big business it can't turn back anymore. Its rock and moore's law. The fact that only AAA games work on consoles, coupled with the rising price tag to make a AAA game means that it wont end well.

Every market has a downside, there is no escaping it.

You're forgetting things like XBLA and PSN. Both of them offer games at much smaller price tags, just like PC gaming.

I think PC gaming will see an increase in the future, but right now? Consoles are where the money is, so that means most big games, with a few exceptions that require PC functionality, will be developed first for the consoles.

My guess would be that by the next generation of consoles games will start to be developed for PCs first again as technology improves, always-online becomes something that can be relied upon etc.

But right at this moment? Consoles simply offer more advantages for a lot of games.

The problem? They don't get as much cash as steam does. Super Meat Boy blew away the console market with only steam. Big games are on consoles because AAA games are the only way to make money. Even then AAA games are becoming outdated. Read my article a couple posts up, it states this same message much better and with sources to prove it. AAA games on a PC market is largely unnecessary where on consoles its a matter of survival.

WOW and famville dont= pc gaming being alive and well

I don't understand why WoW and farmville wouldn't mean that pc gaming is healthy after all loads of people play them. Apart from that PC gaming is great it generates more income then each of the consoles and is getting better due to games like The Witcher, Hard Reset, Minecraft, Terriria, EYE Divine Cybermancy and so far you can't get any of these on consoles.
Also Battlefield 3 needs to be played on pc now for the correct experience.

WOW and farmville are imensly popular and exclusive to PC but not everyone likes thease casual games or MMO's (myself included)

so when somone uses them as an argument in favor of PC gaming going well it doesnt give me much hope...it means Id have to turn to consoles for my big story driven blockbuster games

But such an arguments seems silly, as I can turn your complaint around saying "there isnt enough games like farmville and WoW" on consoles and then proclaim their in a dire state. this statement can be used for WII even better. The games don't suit what you enjoy doesn't mean the platform is doing badly.

true...it just comes down to taste

if a platform (like the wii) limits the kind of games on offer...like the "core AAA" games then it is no longer a major player...well among the "core crowd" (sales says otherwise)

because I am a horrible persona and really dont like/have zero interest in most indie games Ill go where the big boys are, of coarse things can change......

You have to realize AAA games are no longer sustainable in their current form. It just doesn't work, it creates an arms race that only ends with every player bankrupt. PC gaming doesn't need to rely on AAA titles to get cash like the consoles do. The market is bigger, and there is more access to the market now than ever. What does matter? Quality, uniqueness, and innovation. A AAA game is just a game with a big budget, but that doesn't guarantee quality. There are plenty of good regular and indie games. There are more games than just AAA and indie you know.

yeah I know that AAA games and consoles dont make the most money..the wii being a prime example (I dont actually know why it sold so well at the time)

like I said I was just talking pureley about taste in games..and even then the whole console AAA thing is likley to change

 

[Mark Flanagan]

Not really as certain games genres only really work well on PC (MMO's and RTS I'ma looking at you).
I think that in the next decade we are going to see the PC move away from it's little corner desk and become a multimedia center that's hooked up to the TV (blending traditional console and PC gaming together). It's happening now as a lot of us do hook up to HDTVs when we game but I don't think it will become standard practice to replace monitors with the TV for a while.

 

[ultimateownage]

Yes. We need a less whiny userbase, we could use more large developer focus, we need less restrictive DRM/ more trust from developers, and we don't need monopolistic practices when it comes to Digital Distribution. The PC's main point is it's openness, make your games and services equally open. GoG are the only ones who really do that, and their practices aren't going to win them love from Activision or whoever any time soon. The PC has just as many problems as consoles, though. The PC crowd are saying Consoles are dying and the Console crowd are saying PC is dying.

The thing is, it fully dying would actually be beneficial to PC gamers, for the same reason Arcade gaming dying was beneficial to arcade gamers; consoles learned from them, and gained all their benefits with only a few of their drawbacks.
Just let it happen already.

No, arcades dying helped a few people but the one demographic it didn't help were the arcade gamers. That's like saying meat ceasing to exist is beneficial to meat eaters.

 

[Yopaz]

Firstly, why isn't WOW a sign of PC gaming being alive? It's addicting and the only reason anyone plays it after they're done with the story is that they want to be the best. Still the same goes for almost every game with an online aspect.

OK... PC gaming could be improved with the death of console gaming. I know I sound like a PC elitist now, but I prefer consoles on lots of points. PC games aren't made for PCs most of the time. Look at Crysis, then at Crysis 2. Why does the original have better graphics than the sequel? Because it was made for consoles.
PC games made for PC exclusively are better optimized for PCs. What they could have done is made games for PCs then ported them to consoles, but they prefer to make them (on a PC) for console then port them (on a PC) back to PC which means PCs wont get to utilize their full potential.