PC or Console, the developers still need to get payed

[RhombusHatesYou]

Traditionally, PC games come with modding tools, and PC gamers create their own DLC.

You know, one of the reasons for this 'tradition' is that the PC gaming community would find ways of modding games without them and certain companies were... unthrilled... about codemonkeys pulling games apart to see how they ticked.

BUT HEY, IF I WANT TO PLAY ROGUE SPEAR AS JESUS IN CAMO ROBES, I SHOULD BE ABLE TO (and did, despite there never being any mod tools for RS... then again I added a Jesus model to just about every FPS game I ever owned until about '06, especially MPing ones).

 

[ASnogarD]

Traditionally, PC games come with modding tools, and PC gamers create their own DLC.

You know, one of the reasons for this 'tradition' is that the PC gaming community would find ways of modding games without them and certain companies were... unthrilled... about codemonkeys pulling games apart to see how they ticked.

BUT HEY, IF I WANT TO PLAY ROGUE SPEAR AS JESUS IN CAMO ROBES, I SHOULD BE ABLE TO (and did, despite there never being any mod tools for RS... then again I added a Jesus model to just about every FPS game I ever owned until about '06, especially MPing ones).

Ahh, but at one point in gaming modding was a feature in games, developers used to assure the community thier game would feature modding and community input... now its some hackers ripping up the code ?

Lets just get it straight here, PC gamers are pissed because features are getting removed from thier viewpoint, and Console gamers are smirking because they feel the PC lot shouldnt be getting 'extras' (especially since its often cheaper to buy the game on the PC).

Its already been pointed out, but these features aint extras they used to be the norm but are not/can not be supported in the Console market.

 

[Delusibeta]

Traditionally, PC games come with modding tools, and PC gamers create their own DLC.

You know, one of the reasons for this 'tradition' is that the PC gaming community would find ways of modding games without them and certain companies were... unthrilled... about codemonkeys pulling games apart to see how they ticked.

BUT HEY, IF I WANT TO PLAY ROGUE SPEAR AS JESUS IN CAMO ROBES, I SHOULD BE ABLE TO (and did, despite there never being any mod tools for RS... then again I added a Jesus model to just about every FPS game I ever owned until about '06, especially MPing ones).

Ahh, but at one point in gaming modding was a feature in games, developers used to assure the community thier game would feature modding and community input... now its some hackers ripping up the code ?

Lets just get it straight here, PC gamers are pissed because features are getting removed from thier viewpoint, and Console gamers are smirking because they feel the PC lot shouldnt be getting 'extras' (especially since its often cheaper to buy the game on the PC).

Its already been pointed out, but these features aint extras they used to be the norm but are not/can not be supported in the Console market.

*cough* Unreal Tournament 3 for the PS3. Sure, you'll still need the PC version to make stuff, and not all PC mods are available for it, but still. As a proof of concept of how to get modding into consoles, it's a very good example.

 

[RhombusHatesYou]

Traditionally, PC games come with modding tools, and PC gamers create their own DLC.

You know, one of the reasons for this 'tradition' is that the PC gaming community would find ways of modding games without them and certain companies were... unthrilled... about codemonkeys pulling games apart to see how they ticked.

BUT HEY, IF I WANT TO PLAY ROGUE SPEAR AS JESUS IN CAMO ROBES, I SHOULD BE ABLE TO (and did, despite there never being any mod tools for RS... then again I added a Jesus model to just about every FPS game I ever owned until about '06, especially MPing ones).

Ahh, but at one point in gaming modding was a feature in games, developers used to assure the community thier game would feature modding and community input... now its some hackers ripping up the code ?

No, modding started with people 'ripping up the code' and eventually coding up their own applications to handle the processes they wanted to be able to change. Official modding tools started as a response to the growth in popularity of modding, both as a goodwill gesture and a selling point (not to mention when they got the tools they wanted people were less inclined to go poking around the source code).

Official modding tools, however, make life a fuck of a lot easier for modders. With most being based off (or simply restricted version of) the Developer toolsets used to create the game(s) in the first place they're more flexible and more stable than much of what the modding communities themselves create as far as tools go.


If certain publishers really want to take the good official modding tools away they're going to be in for a shock when the modding communities start producing their own again (and they'll shit their pants if Total Conversion become popular again). They'll also lose out against publishers who continue supporting their associated mod communities because 'modability' is a big selling point to many PC gamers. Sure, if they're making cash hand over first selling console titles they probably won't care but conversely, why should we give a shit about games they don't meet our requirements as consumers?

Personally I don't give a fuck about paid DLC, I can take it or leave it (and mostly leave it) but I regard taking away mod tools as a publisher's way of telling me not to buy their games.

 

[ASnogarD]

lets also not forget how modding and map making kept franchises alive for many years until a sequel was possible.

... then again with mega publichers like Activision pumping out sequels like crazy, there isnt really much time for communities to flourish anymore before the next 'installment' is on the shelves.

Unfortunately these 'installments' mainly consist of slightly upgraded versions of previous ones, no innovation and no trying to break boundries (except sales records).

 

[RhombusHatesYou]

*cough* Unreal Tournament 3 for the PS3. Sure, you'll still need the PC version to make stuff, and not all PC mods are available for it, but still. As a proof of concept of how to get modding into consoles, it's a very good example.

Yeah, thanks for reminding me of the $50 I lost to a friend because of that.

We'd talked about how, as a concept, releasing PC mod toolsets to produce console mods could work but I shot my mouth off about how none of the major console manufacturers would ever allow unrestricted modding near their precious golden geese. My mate bet me $50 one eventually would even just as an experiment.

 

[RhombusHatesYou]

lets also not forget how modding and map making kept franchises alive for many years until a sequel was possible.

Yes but to a publisher 40hrs of extra play squeezed out of a game is 40hrs worth of other games people aren't buying to play.

 

[oganalp]

Corporate vision is so much focused on profit levels and trendlines that they miss the key spots of "winning by quantity and consumer happiness". This applies to every aspect of game marketing. SKU's, DLC's, Demos... all are at a fail trend. Its why the indie development is gaining up speed with an immense public support. Its not about PC vs Console gaming. Its all about marketing and marketing it bad.

Most of the time, its 3 piece suit guys who have no idea of what is going on around leading the market. Consumers are getting affected from this. Development studios are getting affected from this.

At some point, someone will have the courage and say "WTF, enough!" to it and then the system will start to change and so will the Console vs PC, demo, dlc, modding etc context.

This has happened in the music industry at the beginning of this decade. Music industry and game industry has a similar trendline in means of management and applications.

 

[GLo Jones]

To be honest, I remember 360 games costing about £49.99 (from new) when the console first came out.

Now I can buy a new game for at least £10 cheaper, so I'm perfectly content spending extra money on more content.

 

[e2density]

Just deal with it. We have better access to the internet, we can easily get content without issues.

Xbox and PS3 doesn't have that advantage over us. Although they really managed to take the cake when it comes to badmouthing players, little kids, and stoners.

 

[Lordmarkus]

Excellent point. I myself as self-proclaimed PC-elitist (now with 33 % less elitisism!) doesn't really understand why PC-gamers should get better deals. Why should we get free DLC, when consoles pay up tp 15 ? for them, we even get the games 10 ? cheaper and don't get me started on piracy.

I guess PC-gamers think they should get all software free beacause we pay more for hardware. That's at least what I think but you don't get free petrol just because you bought a Ferrari.

You sir, are a dumbass. You should become more intelligent like the "Hopeless Bastard" man.

Well, thank you, insults are always welcome. It makes me all warm and fuzzy knowing people need to downgrade and insult other people when they disagree with their opinions.

Next time you see someone disagree with you on the internet and you feel the anger rising up in your large belly, then by all means feel free to punch a wall or some other objects to let of some steam so you can come back and keep the talk and arguments civilized.

 

[Katana314]

I wasn't "angry" at IW's decision to price the map pack, but decided that it wasn't worth it to me.
The problem, I feel, isn't that console DLC is priced similarly on PC, but that there is no good method for free DLC or updates on a console game. It's a horrible problem that affected TF2 on the 360.

It's not even a "be a nice person" thing. That sort of thing does help curb piracy, and can bring in many new customers for a proportionally tiny effort. (a few new levels, no engine upgrades, and it's done!)

In the case of MW2, since there's no way to get things free on both sides, they might as well go for equality.