Peeing... Hear me out on this!
- Thread starter brimstone1392
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Some animals like birds have no mechanism for holding it in. They go when they go to lighten the load in flight. For other animals, the ability to hold in pee/poo is a matter of survival. Animals, specifically predators can learn a lot about potential prey based on their pee or poo. This is why many animals eat or try to cover their own or their offspring's emissions.
If an animal is weak from illness, pregnant, old, a predator can tell through the emissions. As well, if an area is soaked with the pee of predators, prey animals will avoid it like the plague.
It is likely a survival thing for humans that became more of a social etiquette thing as humans developed.
If an animal is weak from illness, pregnant, old, a predator can tell through the emissions. As well, if an area is soaked with the pee of predators, prey animals will avoid it like the plague.
It is likely a survival thing for humans that became more of a social etiquette thing as humans developed.
This simple/somewhat-stupid-little-question has become an amazingly lively discussion. Let me just say "thank you" to each of you for reminding me of the validity of internet forums. I had almost lost faith in the whole concept.
WolfEdge: the wild-children studies are those that I have read. Look at the studies performed that eventually lead to the (fictional) story of the best known "wild-child" in western civ: Tarzan (the child's name eludes me at the moment, but it's a great study/story and I would recommend it to anyone interested in this sort of thing). In these rare cases, the "house breaking" avenue really doesn't apply. Yes, they "went" in the house, but by the accounts I have seen, didn't hold it in. Honestly, if you can find one of these studies that shows a wild-child doing the "pee-pee" dance (and anyone that has EVER taken care of a kid knows what I'm talking about) then please post it here. I would like to read it... Really, I would. No sarcasm there. As for your assertion that I don't realize the HORRIBLE things we have done to each other in the past in the name of science, I have to apologize. It was not my intent to portray that notion as my own line of thought. I simply wanted to state that it is not the right way to do such things and leave it at that. Sorry that I wasn't more clear.
WolfEdge: the wild-children studies are those that I have read. Look at the studies performed that eventually lead to the (fictional) story of the best known "wild-child" in western civ: Tarzan (the child's name eludes me at the moment, but it's a great study/story and I would recommend it to anyone interested in this sort of thing). In these rare cases, the "house breaking" avenue really doesn't apply. Yes, they "went" in the house, but by the accounts I have seen, didn't hold it in. Honestly, if you can find one of these studies that shows a wild-child doing the "pee-pee" dance (and anyone that has EVER taken care of a kid knows what I'm talking about) then please post it here. I would like to read it... Really, I would. No sarcasm there. As for your assertion that I don't realize the HORRIBLE things we have done to each other in the past in the name of science, I have to apologize. It was not my intent to portray that notion as my own line of thought. I simply wanted to state that it is not the right way to do such things and leave it at that. Sorry that I wasn't more clear.
You, sir, should meet a hippopotamus sometime. Ask his wife what caught her eye.Irridium said:
Find someone that speaks hippopotamus first.
Chizniz:
It's going to take a bit for me to respond in a way that gives your post the attention it deserves. If your reading this immediately after I post it, I'm sorry. Just give me a bit and we can continue the conversation justly.
It's going to take a bit for me to respond in a way that gives your post the attention it deserves. If your reading this immediately after I post it, I'm sorry. Just give me a bit and we can continue the conversation justly.
I do speak Hippo. She said that it was because his pee smelled less offensive than the rest of her suitors. Okay, it wasn't a hippo. That was a quote form my last girlfriend pertaining to why she went out with me in the first place.chowderface said:
(every situation deserves some levity. just go with it!)
Oh you silly fellow.
You know you've had too much to drink when you can't tell a hippo from your ex-girlfriend in the ground.
You know you've had too much to drink when you can't tell a hippo from your ex-girlfriend in the ground.
If you've seen my Ex, you would have trouble telling them apart as well.
(I kid. She's actually a wonderful woman.)
(I kid. She's actually a wonderful woman.)
But that's exactly what I'm saying, there ISN'T an evolutionary reason we "hold it in". It's entirely societal. It has NOTHING to do with evolution. It's because human beings typically have a "dwelling", and we don't have a desire to soil these places, so the etiquette was put forth and perpetuated to designate a spot and relieve one's self there. Before bathrooms, there were outhouses, and before outhouses, there were holes in the ground.brimstone1392 said:
I will say it once more: you're right. There ISN'T an evolutionary reason we hold it in. However, as I've already mentioned, we DO hold an evolutionary prevalence for learning by example through social interaction, which is all this particular form of mental programming and etiquette is. There isn't actually a discussion to be had here. The phenomenon is psychological in nature, not evolutionary.
I think I've finally found where I've failed to convey myself correctly. Thank you for that WolfEdge. Your insight and ability to communicate it is a true saving grace.
Now, to the point, isn't all psychological/societal conditioning rooted in the human evolutionary process? Take primordial fears (death/fire/umm... spiders, if you're so inclined.) Aren't they a part of our psyche that was born of evolutionary triumphs or failures?
I guess what I'm trying to say is that if just one of these learned responses can't be attributed to the theory as a whole, then maybe we should go back to the drawing board and create a new theory.
Damn it. Now I need to start a whole new thread. Just wait - it will be MUCH worse than this!
Now, to the point, isn't all psychological/societal conditioning rooted in the human evolutionary process? Take primordial fears (death/fire/umm... spiders, if you're so inclined.) Aren't they a part of our psyche that was born of evolutionary triumphs or failures?
I guess what I'm trying to say is that if just one of these learned responses can't be attributed to the theory as a whole, then maybe we should go back to the drawing board and create a new theory.
Damn it. Now I need to start a whole new thread. Just wait - it will be MUCH worse than this!
Peeing while out on the hunt might give away your position to your prey.
SO:
People that can hold it in get closet to their pray
People that get closer to their pray eat
People who eat survive.
People who survive get to have more sex than those who don't
More sex means more chances of your genes being passed on.
...
Profit
You see holding it is is actually a good skill to have.
SO:
People that can hold it in get closet to their pray
People that get closer to their pray eat
People who eat survive.
People who survive get to have more sex than those who don't
More sex means more chances of your genes being passed on.
...
Profit
You see holding it is is actually a good skill to have.
My two cents:
Humans, as a social and linguistic species, have much less need to mark territory than say, dogs. Yes, dogs are social, but their communications are more in scent and posture while ours are largely verbal. We lost the need to piss on trees to tell everyone else "hey, we live here, f*** off" when we started being able to so verbally.
Humans, as a social and linguistic species, have much less need to mark territory than say, dogs. Yes, dogs are social, but their communications are more in scent and posture while ours are largely verbal. We lost the need to piss on trees to tell everyone else "hey, we live here, f*** off" when we started being able to so verbally.
Man touched fire, it hurt. He told everyone and they probably tried it too and found out it hurt. I've got three baby cousins at the moment and as soon as they started crawling they have to be kept away from the fire in my living room. So one day I let one of them get close enough and she got so close that she probably felt enough heat for a little pain and retreated. She hasn't gone near it again.brimstone1392 said:
The thing is as kids we don't fear these things. Hell we don't know what spiders are as newborns, we're more likely to play with them like toys than cry for our parents to save us from the hairy beast. I never had a fear of spiders until I learned about the venemous variety in Oz.
Death is a funny one; not haha funny but it's difficult to deal with funny. I don't really fear death; I fear not knowing what will happen the same way I did when I went under for an operation. This one is probably different to individuals.
The thing is a lot of things are already present in us; but things like fears are learned through individual experience.
Well, when noone's in the house, we get back and there is piss on the kitchen floor, its usually because he can't hold it in any longer. Also, I find it pretty cool (don't judge me) how he never pisses anywhere else other than the kitchen if we've been out all day and haven't been able to let him out or walk him. He knows that cream carpet in our lounge ain't for pissin' on!Saelune said:
Man... I know it's been a week since I last replied- work and all -but DAMN! I really have to say, again, thank you for all the responses. I'm always looking for another perspective on things and (okay... AGAIN again) you have all provided me with alot to think about.
There's alot of things I've been pondering for awhile. I mean, questions more important/Interesting than this. If those who replied think you can provide me with the same "beyond-my-thought-processes" ideas that you have here, I will continue to post them. Here's a list of examples:
Evolution (Darwinian Vs Non-Darwinian Vs Theological)
Gender Roles (The meaning of Man/Woman, both historically and in the modern day)
Politics (More why we divide ourselves along such lines than personal political ideology)
And, of course, relationships (From both male and female perspectives)
If those of you who followed/expressed yourselves in this post would like me to continue bringing up such questions, let me know. You can bet your a-ess-ess I will!
EDIT: Well, I made a bet and lost, and have to abide by it... So:
Purple monkey's got me by the Brain banana.
There it is. Just saying (cause I have to.)
There's alot of things I've been pondering for awhile. I mean, questions more important/Interesting than this. If those who replied think you can provide me with the same "beyond-my-thought-processes" ideas that you have here, I will continue to post them. Here's a list of examples:
Evolution (Darwinian Vs Non-Darwinian Vs Theological)
Gender Roles (The meaning of Man/Woman, both historically and in the modern day)
Politics (More why we divide ourselves along such lines than personal political ideology)
And, of course, relationships (From both male and female perspectives)
If those of you who followed/expressed yourselves in this post would like me to continue bringing up such questions, let me know. You can bet your a-ess-ess I will!
EDIT: Well, I made a bet and lost, and have to abide by it... So:
Purple monkey's got me by the Brain banana.
There it is. Just saying (cause I have to.)