Pelosi finally actually moves to Impeach Trump

[CaitSeith]

The context of the conversation was in regards to ICE raids. ICE raids and detentions have a very well documented history of human rights abuses including a denial of due process.

And just because some deportations are done ignoring due process does not mean that all are done ignoring due process.

Enough of them have ignored due process to become a problem. Specially now that ICE targets American citizens that look suspicious.

Yes, but it's a bit of a baby and bathwater scenario here. Just because some people have been hard done by does not mean that deportations should not happen.

Maybe, but since the GOP has been in power, deportation process have become much more of a mess. And you know what should really happen? Trump's impeachment.

 

[Silvanus]

[So the nation that they occupy is the one that is responsible for their well-being even if the nation they're in did not want them to enter that nation in the first place? "Haha, you touched it last, your problem now."

They're responsible for their most basic rights, yes, since they're the only power with the ability to provide it at that time. The only alternative is a grotesque loss of life and the abrogation of equality under the law-- in other words, barbarism. This doesn't mean the country in question has to accept their stay without limit.

Folk should have legal representation, but there comes a point where someone breaks into a store, is being told to leave by the owner, but the owner is then expected to pay for the trespasser's room and board while they remain in the store and then organize the legal proceedings to have them evicted from the store.

I'm not going to engage with that.

Seeking asylum I am 100% behind but one should still apply openly and honestly about it.

Obviously. But this is behaviour driven by desperation, not malice, and is exacerbated by a labyrinthine and cruel applications process.

 

[Saelune]

The context of the conversation was in regards to ICE raids. ICE raids and detentions have a very well documented history of human rights abuses including a denial of due process.

And just because some deportations are done ignoring due process does not mean that all are done ignoring due process.

Enough of them have ignored due process to become a problem. Specially now that ICE targets American citizens that look suspicious.

Yes, but it's a bit of a baby and bathwater scenario here. Just because some people have been hard done by does not mean that deportations should not happen.

Its not all or nothing. The minimum we want is that deportation and immigration is dealt with humanely. Torture and lack of due process is not humane.

 

[JamesStone]

Either this works or the election is 100% lost. The rabid base is stirred to the point of boiling over, and the bible belt rage is hard to calm down. Pelosi did well in waiting for impeachment, I can't help but to feel the Democrats blew their load too soon and if impeachment fails here they'll de-energize their base and garantee a Trump victory by sheer force of poor voter turn-out.

 

[Agema]

Polls in!

https://theweek.com/speedreads/870332/brutal-new-poll-shows-3-10-republicans-support-trump-impeachment-push

1 in 3 Republicans think impeachment proceedings against Trump are appropriate.

As a historical note, public support for impeachment of Nixon in the 1970s was modest (<40%) until the impeachment enquiry ended, by which time it was around 60%. Although support for impeaching Trump is currently higher than for Nixon at a similar point across the whole population, the USA is more polarised now, which may mean both that Democrats are more pro-impeachment now, and Republicans will be less likely to shift in favour in the future, so the same sort of shift may not materialise.

 

[Gordon_4_v1legacy]

And in a historic vote - according to the news anyway - The US House is Representatives has voted in favour of impeaching President Trump.

 

[Gergar12_v1legacy]

Of course, that neoliberal DINO Jeff Van Drew voted no.

 

[Silvanus]

Either this works or the election is 100% lost. The rabid base is stirred to the point of boiling over, and the bible belt rage is hard to calm down. Pelosi did well in waiting for impeachment, I can't help but to feel the Democrats blew their load too soon and if impeachment fails here they'll de-energize their base and garantee a Trump victory by sheer force of poor voter turn-out.

Why would it lower turnout? Anyone paying attention knows the purpose of launching these proceedings was not to remove Trump from office. But even if significant numbers didn't see it that way, why would they stay home on election day? There's no rational reason for it to suppress turnout.