People should stop protecting guns

[J Tyran]

I'm getting sick of ludicrous arguments I keep hearing about guns
Wether you're pro-guns or anti-guns I wish to put a few facts straight that everyone with a sane mind can understand.

No they need to stop protecting the absurd laws the United States have and simply understand that licences need to be issued. Background checks should be formed. As well as a law that anyone selling a gun has to notify the new bureau (paid for by taxes on the domestic sale of firearms) that monitors the first two and that selling a gun to someone who neither has the first or would pass the second is an offense. Finally all guns not in active use should be locked in an approved reinforced container and transported in such a way they cannot fire (slides/ firing pins etc removed)separately from the ammunition. There would be lots of sub legislation in each law obviously but these would massively decrease inappropriate owners and reduce one of the major reasons criminals get so many guns in the first place. This isn't even beginning to cover other stuff like a general on ban walking into a shop and ordering a military style semi automatic rifle with a large magazine.

It would also bring them into line with countries the gun defenders champion like Israel or Switzerland, countries where people own guns but do not suffer all that much for having them.

 

[Something Amyss]

This is America. I am an American. I've never owned a gun in my life. I don't really want to. But I will not allow my freedom to be stifled by cowards.

It's easy to call people cowards for not thinking the same way as you, but it's not exactly productive or indicative of a strong argument.

It's nice to shout things like "freedom" and call people "cowards," but howabout some substantial argument? Freedom is such a loose thing.

Correct me if I'm wrong on this, but don't the people of Switzerland have something like 200.000 guns hidden away in their homes, with one of the lowest gun crime figures in the EU?

I'm not saying gun ownership should stay as loose as it is right now in the US - I'm not really decided on the issue - but it is clearly a societal issue.

It's not just a societal issue, however. In stating that, you've shifted from one extreme (it's the guns) to another.

The answers are usually more complex. The thing is, it's not just the guns, but the type of guns available, the way they are available, etc.

Yes, we are a nation of gun nuts. that influences things. Yes, there is a mental health problem in America. That influences things. But these elements are not alone in the matter.

Switzerland, in many ways, has better gun control laws than we do. Its gun ownership rates are due to the well-regulated militia we are supposed to have. Background checks and permits are pretty non-controversial. Ammunition is restricted, even for the assault rifles that are standard issue for their military service.

They have some pretty strong gun restrictions, which isn't out of keeping with the US, where the states with the most gun laws tend to have the least gun violence.

I know you're not taking a side here, but I do want to point out Switzerland is commonly brought up as an argument by pro-gun advocates in the US quite often. And it is a bad one.

 

[Antari]

What is needed is a comprehensive mental health system. Guns exist, there is NOTHING you can do about that. They aren't going to vanish until they've been replaced by something far more lethal. At which point you will still be fighting the same problem. Human nature. Gun control won't do a thing to change anything. It never has and it never will. And no I don't need to hear how a country 1/20th the size of the USA has such a peaceful lifestyle.

 

[astrav1]

I'm getting sick of ludicrous arguments I keep hearing about guns
Wether you're pro-guns or anti-guns I wish to put a few facts straight that everyone with a sane mind can understand.


1 Guns aren't "safe" guns are tools intended to harm, there is no other purpose for a gun than to wound or kill.

2 People may kill people but people with guns kill them a whole lot faster.

3 The general consensus everywhere but the United states of EUHMERICAH is that guns are bad and one should not be able to own, this does not however mean that Americans shouldn't be able to choose whether or not they're allowed to own guns.

4 The fact that when you ban guns there will still be guns on the street is not an argument to hide yourself behind, however making it more difficult for the average Joe to own a gun and limiting the influx of guns into the open world is a valid argument against it. (quote me on this and I will elaborate on the subject).

5 A shotgun in a secured gunsafe in your home is a defense weapon, semi-automatic/automatic weapons and pistols aren't.

6 A pistol securely fastened on your body is a defense weapon if you're out on the street, a shotgun or semi/automatic weaponry is not.

7 Hunting rifles in woodland areas are a yes, hunting rifles in the suburbs or the city are a No-No.


Any arguments to add, anything you wish to discuss ?
Be polite,calm and respectful about it.


[sub]the poster of this thread neither condemns nor accepts guns[/sub]

You know, because of this thread and overdone topic, I think I'm going to join the NRA, nice going, you really made a change.

 

[Xanex]

"1 Guns aren't "safe" guns are tools intended to harm, there is no other purpose for a gun than to wound or kill."

Really. Then why do police have them? It's to help them serve and protect the community. Yes with guns.

 

[Xan Krieger]

I think in order to make everyone safe we should just ban people. People are the leading killers of people so people must be banned for everyone's protection.

 

[Xanex]

I think in order to make everyone safe we should just ban people. People are the leading killers of people so people must be banned for everyone's protection.

Genius! Why hasn't anyone thought of this before! Someone call the government!

 

[kgpspyguy]

It doesn't matter whether guns are safe. It doesn't matter whether guns have any use in self defense, recreation, or crime. It doesn't matter whether they kill people.

What matters is that Americans desire to own firearms. And the ownership of firearms does not trespass upon the rights of those who do not desire to own firearms.

This is America. I am an American. I've never owned a gun in my life. I don't really want to. But I will not allow my freedom to be stifled by cowards.

I dont know who you are but I can tell you're smarter then about 75 percent of people on the internet.

 

[supermanNBC]

A gun is a tool to kill, but a gun does not kill people, the person pulling the trigger is the killer. Guns are used to defend yourself, whether a shotgun, semi-automatic pistol, or if you want, an assault rifle. NRA is a bunch of idiots, and I've lost respect for them since blaming video games for the shootings. The gun didn't walk into the school and shoot people nor did a video game, it was a very disturbed person that did it. It's not a perfect world out their and we need something to defend ourselves from those who would do us harm. Some people may go their whole lives without needing a gun, and I understand you see no need for it if you feel perfectly safe without one. Some of us, less fortunate will need it. This video gives every reason why we should have guns (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KKWNTdTRQuE).

 

[kgpspyguy]

it's not just a "gun" thread

it's a neutral thread

In order: it is, it isn't.

And it's in Off-topic, rather than R&P. Not to mention it's a new thread. If you wanted to discus what those "other people" say about guns, you should have discussed it with them. Making a new thread citing "something" apparently "somebody" has "said" is just weaselling words and making a groundless statements.

would you please stop the picture spamming there's no need for it.

And they aren't groundless statements if you wish for me to back these up I will.

PS: next time reply in a mature way please, this picture spamming just makes you look foolish.

I dont know, I thought it was pretty funny.

 

[blaize2010]

This is dumb. Nothing anyone says is going to sway my opinion that it is a persons right to own guns, and nothing I say will sway anyone elses opinion that guns are the devil.

Seriously, this is a gaming website.

 

[Lovely Mixture]

To summarize the beliefs that I (personally) consider rational.

Guns aren't the issue. Less guns and less gun-owners does not mean less violence.

Violent videogames and movies aren't the issue. Blaming media removes personal responsibility.

Preventing violence is the issue. But it unfortunately the most difficult to discuss for some reason, perhaps because increased security tramples on more rights than just the first and second amendments above.

 

[Proeliator]

As an US citizen, I am guaranteed the right to own a firearm in order to protect myself against tyranny. For a while people argued that the 2nd amendment really meant that states could have their own militias, but the supreme court said that, no, its the individuals right. In that context, law-abiding citizens should have the ability to own rifles that are comparable to military grade weapons. It appears a semi-automatic small-medium caliber rifle with a medium capacity magazine fits this.

Heavy Machine Guns and Anti-tanks missiles for all? Of course not. That would be idiotic. We have a hard enough time training everyone to operate motor vehicles safely. But the current interpretation of the law seems to point to assault rifles. If you want that changed, I'd advise an amendment to the constitution, and then the supreme court can re-interpret it.

 

[Lovely Mixture]

For a while people argued that the 2nd amendment really meant that states could have their own militias, but the supreme court said that, no, its the individuals right.

With no intention of contradicting your post. If a lot of gun owners get together with a political agenda, does that count as a militia? I'm legitimately curious.

 

[Proeliator]

For a while people argued that the 2nd amendment really meant that states could have their own militias, but the supreme court said that, no, its the individuals right.

With no intention of contradicting your post. If a lot of gun owners get together with a political agenda, does that count as a militia? I'm legitimately curious.

Sure! I'd love to have a non-rage-fueled discussion!
I was talking about state-sponsored militias, meaning they took orders from the governor of the state, which today has sorta morphed into the National Guard (although some/most national guard take orders from the president). However, what your talking about looks more like a private militia, which might be protected under the right to assemble (the key word being peaceful, so if they started shooting people obviously no), and private militias do exist. They run the risk of being labeled as a gang or terrorist cell by law enforcement, but they're still out there. I could be confusing things though, and private militias could be illegal. Its most likely a state law.