people thinking that life is fair

[bobstone]

how come so many arguments I see happening on this site are based on people assuming the world is perfect?

like if someone is getting in trouble for standing up for him self because he is different. and people defend it by saying it was his right, he shouldn't have to change.

those are good points but they are also points that wont work until the world changes. I am not saying not to try to change the world is bad or impossible, but to argue about a situation in today's world with your argument being he shouldn't have had to do it, is pointless in the extreme!

take homosexuals, I have no problem with them, but other people do, and those people can, will and do take it to violent extremes. to say well its his right to dress or act in what ever way he wants while correct is based on a world that we are not a part of. it is a sad truth but a truth non the less.

anyways sorry for mini rant.
have at me and my opinion.

 

[bobstone]

So you would have us do... What exactly differently?

less typing and more doing. arguing so fervently on the internet does next to nothing. form a group IRL, lobby congress, vote, i.e. do something vs just talking about it in such a holier then the other person manner. if it something that you care so much about, do something more then telling people about it

this was a answer to your question, not an attack on you asking.

now telling people on the internet to do something to reach their goals might work better then telling them how thing should be but doing nothing to do it.

 

[Popadoo]

Yep, let's not try to change anything. You're gay? Sure, we could say you've got equal rights and all that jazz, but I'M AFRAID WE DON'T LIVE IN A PERFECT WORLD, so you should change to suit this disgusting, hate-filled world that will NOT CHANGE if we continue to act like we should be in it.
Sure, we're not in a perfect world. Why should that stop us trying to get there?

 

[bobstone]

Yep, let's not try to change anything. You're gay? Sure, we could say you've got equal rights and all that jazz, but I'M AFRAID WE DON'T LIVE IN A PERFECT WORLD, so you should change to suit this disgusting, hate-filled world that will NOT CHANGE if we continue to act like we should be in it.
Sure, we're not in a perfect world. Why should that stop us trying to get there?

then stop arguing with me on the internet about it and get out there and try to do something.

 

[RJ 17]

I don't think people say such platitudes like "Yeah, that's the person's right" or whatever specifically inferring that the world should all take notice of the case and collectively change, but rather they simply do it as being sympathetic people who are trying to confirm an injustice so that the person being "injustified" - to make up a word - can feel better and not feel like they are wrong.

To create a scenario illustrating what I'm talking about:

A gay guy tells some of his straight friends that a bar won't serve him because the owner of the bar knows he's gay. The friends would likely say stuff along the lines of "That's bullshit", "Let's not go there anymore", etc. Do they expect the owner to suddenly change his ways even if they stop going there? Of course not, but they're trying to make their friend - who was treated unjustly - feel better.

 

[Total LOLige]

There will never be a perfect world, people love to hate. Campaign all you want but at the end of the day there's always going to be at least one hater. I'm not saying people shouldn't campaign.

 

[Esotera]

So you would have us do... What exactly differently?

less typing and more doing. arguing so fervently on the internet does next to nothing. form a group IRL, lobby congress, vote, i.e. do something vs just talking about it in such a holier then the other person manner. if it something that you care so much about, do something more then telling people about it

So your solution to people arguing on the internet, is to start an argument on the internet?

I agree with your point, but think you're being a bit hypocritical here.

 

[bobstone]

So you would have us do... What exactly differently?

less typing and more doing. arguing so fervently on the internet does next to nothing. form a group IRL, lobby congress, vote, i.e. do something vs just talking about it in such a holier then the other person manner. if it something that you care so much about, do something more then telling people about it

So your solution to people arguing on the internet, is to start an argument on the internet?

I agree with your point, but think you're being a bit hypocritical here.

ahh but see I am telling people who believe in something to do more then argue about it ( in a round about way). vs trying to change the world by telling people who already know it needs fixing that it should be fixed.

but still I agree I am a little hypocritical.

 

[bobstone]

I don't think people say such platitudes like "Yeah, that's the person's right" or whatever specifically inferring that the world should all take notice of the case and collectively change, but rather they simply do it as being sympathetic people who are trying to confirm an injustice so that the person being "injustified" - to make up a word - can feel better and not feel like they are wrong.

To create a scenario illustrating what I'm talking about:

A gay guy tells some of his straight friends that a bar won't serve him because the owner of the bar knows he's gay. The friends would likely say stuff along the lines of "That's bullshit", "Let's not go there anymore", etc. Do they expect the owner to suddenly change his ways even if they stop going there? Of course not, but they're trying to make their friend - who was treated unjustly - feel better.

informing people about something they might not know about, i.e. a local shop that is racists or homophobe, vs arguing constantly online is still different.

 

[bobstone]

another question,

for people that do argue about it and get really heated ( not heated in a bad way but because you really care about it )

what do you all think is being accomplished by talking about it online on a forum for a entertainment magazine?

honest question. I try not to be rude/mean online. I really want to know, I might disagree and post on what you say, but I would like to know the thoughts behind such action.

 

[ClockworkPenguin]

how come so many arguments I see happening on this site are based on people assuming the world is perfect?

like if someone is getting in trouble for standing up for him self because he is different. and people defend it by saying it was his right, he shouldn't have to change.

those are good points but they are also points that wont work until the world changes. I am not saying not to try to change the world is bad or impossible, but to argue about a situation in today's world with your argument being he shouldn't have had to do it, is pointless in the extreme!

take homosexuals, I have no problem with them, but other people do, and those people can, will and do take it to violent extremes. to say well its his right to dress or act in what ever way he wants while correct is based on a world that we are not a part of. it is a sad truth but a truth non the less.

anyways sorry for mini rant.
have at me and my opinion.

I'm sensing that you don't really 'get' discussion forums? (fora?) Kinda implicit is that we discuss stuff. And one of the things people like to discuss most is what pisses them off. Why do you think us Brits talk about the weather so much?

Do you also apply this to the real world? If your mates are discussing politics at the pub do you berate them for not standing for office?

Last point, how do you know we're not also doing stuff in the real world? Its not mutually exclusive.

I lied, my last point is that its often stuff we have no power to affect (in a lot of cases, not for a lack of trying) and this is a way of venting frustration.

 

[Atmos Duality]

Learn, plan, enact.
Just doing is misplaced effort. Not doing is misplaced time.

 

[bobstone]

well complaining and bitching about it is one thing. that is not what I am talking about, even discussing it is fine, but people take it to another level, they try to ram it down your throat. one time is fine even a couple of times is fine, but to consistently tell me about it when I am actually trying to have a conversation about something is another matter all tougher.


lets say Jack poses an issue and a possible solution for it. Jill disagrees with him because she thinks it shouldn't be necessary in the first place.

Jack then answer that well unfortunately at this time it is, He wishes it was not but it is.

Jill respond back saying That idea stinks because it shouldn't be necessary.

Jack give a different idea on how to fix it.

Jill responds back saying that Jacks second idea is horrible because it shouldn't be necessary
ect...

in that case Jill is not debating or venting or even arguing. she is changing no ones mind, she is accomplishing next to nothing, so... if she really cared about the issue instead of spending all day following a thread and changing no ones opinion , why does she not get out there and try to do something about it? that attitude makes me think she might not even really care about the issue.

I just don't see that as discussion, and if it is it is one sided to both people, discussion involves the interchanging of ideas.


fyi I love ranting and bitching (ex military mechanic, bitching was kinda a job requirement) but I think this is something else.

 

[bobstone]

I'm sensing that you don't really 'get' discussion forums? (fora?) Kinda implicit is that we discuss stuff. And one of the things people like to discuss most is what pisses them off. Why do you think us Brits talk about the weather so much?

Do you also apply this to the real world? If your mates are discussing politics at the pub do you berate them for not standing for office?

Last point, how do you know we're not also doing stuff in the real world? Its not mutually exclusive.

I lied, my last point is that its often stuff we have no power to affect (in a lot of cases, not for a lack of trying) and this is a way of venting frustration.

as for discussion part see above post.

if said friends at the pub are getting really upset over it and keep it up, ya I do tell them to do something about it. if they ***** over it for like a beer or 2 then no it ain't a big deal.

I have no idea if people are doing something about it IRL, but I would think if they where they would of made sure to point it out if only to add more power to their message. could be wrong here, just my opinion.

 

[Vault101]

another question,

for people that do argue about it and get really heated ( not heated in a bad way but because you really care about it )

what do you all think is being accomplished by talking about it online on a forum for a entertainment magazine?

honest question. I try not to be rude/mean online. I really want to know, I might disagree and post on what you say, but I would like to know the thoughts behind such action.

I don't know, its certainly a good way to "test" your own veiws up againsts others...and it makes you think at least

why do we doing anything?

 

[Right Hook]

how come so many arguments I see happening on this site are based on people assuming the world is perfect?

The world truly owes you nothing, you must be thankful for what you have and work hard for what you want or need. Getting mad about something being unfair is wasted energy, you have to try to change what you don't like. I agree with you.

 

[Doclector]

I absolutely hate that people use "life isn't fair" as a reason everyone should stop complaining and make do with what they have, no matter how sh**ty their end of the stick is. For the most part, the world's unfair because we made it so. Rich people can play around with poor people's lives. Governments are intent on punishing the masses for the crimes of the few. People die every day because of human greed. There are other things, like disease and natural disasters, but they could be made less of a problem if we worked harder at it.

People who say "no one said life's fair" stand in the way of change by suggesting we have no ability to change our lot in life, or that said lot is entirely up to fate, not that some other guy took some of yours. People say such a world in which everyone is both equal and free is impossible, but look at the world now; We have to try.