'People who want privacy have something to hide.'
- Thread starter ph0b0s123
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Ben Franklin said it best when he said.
"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety"
It is a raping of our liberties to hand the keys of our castles over to a stranger to insure the safety of people.
It isn't that we have nothing to hide it is the fact that no one should have all that power. While technically not illegal maybe johnny preacher doesn't want his congregation knowing that of his wife's extra martial affair 2 years ago. If you allow the wholesale gathering of EVERYONE'S information whats to stop that information from becoming public should a security breach occur.
Just because someone wants privacy doesn't mean they are up to illegal shit, all it means is that the are human.
Furthermore, anything that is not illegal is none of the governments business.
"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety"
It is a raping of our liberties to hand the keys of our castles over to a stranger to insure the safety of people.
It isn't that we have nothing to hide it is the fact that no one should have all that power. While technically not illegal maybe johnny preacher doesn't want his congregation knowing that of his wife's extra martial affair 2 years ago. If you allow the wholesale gathering of EVERYONE'S information whats to stop that information from becoming public should a security breach occur.
Just because someone wants privacy doesn't mean they are up to illegal shit, all it means is that the are human.
Furthermore, anything that is not illegal is none of the governments business.
My thought exactly.Jove said:
"But everyone poops! There's nothing shameful about -"
"JUST PUT THE DOOR BACK ON THIS STALL, DAMMIT, OR I WILL DO UNSPEAKABLE THINGS TO YOUR HOPES AND DREAMS."
Is this serious? Wanting some basic human rights makes us bad right off the bat?
Read 1984 and see that extreme scenario of lack of privacy and tell me that is what we should strive for. There are plenty of things I don't want everyone to know, but that doesn't mean I'm doing anything illegal, does it?
USA has had this thing for a long time now. They haven't reduced violence with it. They still aren't catching pedophiles or contributors or consumers of child pornography. Basically what it does is that they save our information and claim that it wont be viewed unless they have suspicions of us. However this is paid for with our taxes. The tax payers are paying for something the tax payers don't want in order to reduce our rights. If that isn't a reason to be against this then I don't know.
Read 1984 and see that extreme scenario of lack of privacy and tell me that is what we should strive for. There are plenty of things I don't want everyone to know, but that doesn't mean I'm doing anything illegal, does it?
USA has had this thing for a long time now. They haven't reduced violence with it. They still aren't catching pedophiles or contributors or consumers of child pornography. Basically what it does is that they save our information and claim that it wont be viewed unless they have suspicions of us. However this is paid for with our taxes. The tax payers are paying for something the tax payers don't want in order to reduce our rights. If that isn't a reason to be against this then I don't know.
You, yes you, I installed a small camera last night in your bathroom mirror so I can record you brushing your teeth.
I'm not gonna jerk off to it or anything, but be aware that I will be trapesing over every second of footage of you brushing your teeth every single day from here to eternity and there's nothing you can do about it.
See how creepy that thought is?
I'm not gonna jerk off to it or anything, but be aware that I will be trapesing over every second of footage of you brushing your teeth every single day from here to eternity and there's nothing you can do about it.
See how creepy that thought is?
Damn right I have something to hide, how would I live with myself if the government found out the sites I look at?
When the populace are being watched 24/7 by their government, you go from living a freedom loving existence to a fascist police state. Your country less like a home and more like a prison.
If our lives are to be transparent, then so must those in the government. Let us watch them around the clock, lets us delve in to the darkest corners of their private lives. The world will be a much more scared and hate-filled place when there is no faith in your fellow man.
The governments want their privacy, what are they hiding that's so bad I wonder.
If our lives are to be transparent, then so must those in the government. Let us watch them around the clock, lets us delve in to the darkest corners of their private lives. The world will be a much more scared and hate-filled place when there is no faith in your fellow man.
The governments want their privacy, what are they hiding that's so bad I wonder.
Well DUUUUUH! Of course people want to hide things, that's not a bad thing.
I want to hide the size of my wang because it is so large it will frighten people (I wish, see I'm obfuscating the truth here) that doesn't mean it is some duty to have people come along to expose me because "the truth must be known".
"People-who-want-privacy-have-something-to-hide"
The government and society need to accept that some things are hidden for good reason. I find it interesting that the state has given itself authority to declare some facts may be suppressed in national security but some journalist can hide a camera in a woman's bathroom just in hope of catching her using drugs. No judge would ever authorise such surveillance and any cop who did that would never get away with admitting such evidence yet News of the World get away with it.
See these journalists have become less like crusading truth seekers and more like the bully that pulls a kid's shorts down in gym class to only point and laugh, egging everyone one to join in in the humiliation, ostracising and dehumanisation (should I be laying on a couch as I say this?).
The phrase "there's nowt queer as folk" is a resounding one, everyone is weird in their own secret way in a way they don't want to have to explain because they aren't confident enough in it in themselves, because they'd have to fight against so much prejudice that it would do more harm than good.
I mean we still live in a society where people don't really accept that bisexuality relaly exists, especially not that it is in fact MORE COMMON than being 100% homosexual. That for a person to have same sex relations that seems to be in exclusion of interest with the opposite sex (as fas as society treats them) and even leads to revulsion and exclusion from the opposite sex. Or that bisexuals are branded as deviant sex-obsessed individuals that have to "commit" to one gender or another.
THAT is why many people want to keep their sexuality secret, both men-who-have-sex-with-men keeping secret any interest they have in women for fear of being excluded from the gay community and vica versa with straight men, and straight women and lesbian women and so on.
I want to hide the size of my wang because it is so large it will frighten people (I wish, see I'm obfuscating the truth here) that doesn't mean it is some duty to have people come along to expose me because "the truth must be known".
"People-who-want-privacy-have-something-to-hide"
The government and society need to accept that some things are hidden for good reason. I find it interesting that the state has given itself authority to declare some facts may be suppressed in national security but some journalist can hide a camera in a woman's bathroom just in hope of catching her using drugs. No judge would ever authorise such surveillance and any cop who did that would never get away with admitting such evidence yet News of the World get away with it.
See these journalists have become less like crusading truth seekers and more like the bully that pulls a kid's shorts down in gym class to only point and laugh, egging everyone one to join in in the humiliation, ostracising and dehumanisation (should I be laying on a couch as I say this?).
The phrase "there's nowt queer as folk" is a resounding one, everyone is weird in their own secret way in a way they don't want to have to explain because they aren't confident enough in it in themselves, because they'd have to fight against so much prejudice that it would do more harm than good.
I mean we still live in a society where people don't really accept that bisexuality relaly exists, especially not that it is in fact MORE COMMON than being 100% homosexual. That for a person to have same sex relations that seems to be in exclusion of interest with the opposite sex (as fas as society treats them) and even leads to revulsion and exclusion from the opposite sex. Or that bisexuals are branded as deviant sex-obsessed individuals that have to "commit" to one gender or another.
THAT is why many people want to keep their sexuality secret, both men-who-have-sex-with-men keeping secret any interest they have in women for fear of being excluded from the gay community and vica versa with straight men, and straight women and lesbian women and so on.
How about we start with government transparency and monitoring? We pay these people with our taxes, installing CCTV monitors and bugs into public spaces is protecting our investment. Filming public service workers (police, etc) should be encouraged in public to maintain a record of their actions in the event of justice and/or rights violations. It would also cut down on corruption from higher powers and expose backroom dealings.
If the people WE PAY TO WORK are not comfortable with being monitored by their employers, then perhaps they should be seeking work elsewhere. I'm not even saying we need to look at their private lives, just the time they're on our clock.
"Who watches the Watchmen?"
We should.
If the people WE PAY TO WORK are not comfortable with being monitored by their employers, then perhaps they should be seeking work elsewhere. I'm not even saying we need to look at their private lives, just the time they're on our clock.
"Who watches the Watchmen?"
We should.
It's my impression that since the advent of the database and Internet, the records have always been there - that's why we get calls during dinner. It's only lately that the government realized what a veritable gold mine it is for getting information and tracking people. Than again, I'm not really concerned. The ability to track a person is only as good as the information you get, and data interpretation is not a straight forward science.ph0b0s123 said:
Hard to say. Most of it depends on those who carry out the law - although some like SOPA definitely came from those scared by the bogey man.ph0b0s123 said:
I don't think this would be same to what we have had before. At the moment the data is available, but you have to work hard to get it because it is distributed at many places. You have to go to the ISP, the email provider, all the websites visited to see what was actually done by the user on the website. Due to this work to get the info the authorities will only go to the effort for someone they have probable cause to do so.Akimoto said:
The proposal is to put all this info into an nice central easily collatable database. A database from the proposal nearly anyone working for the authorities can go into for the lulz to see what the neighbor they don't like has been up to on-line.
I like the fact that it is not easy, but still possible to get the information at the moment. It naturally means that the people who's information is being sort are people that you have probable cause to investigate and that there is an audit trail for that snooping via warrants and sopenas that are needed to gain the information.
People should be just as angry about companies like Google being able to collect the same information as well. But then that is easy to over come by using Firefox and some privacy plug-ins. For example not allowing javascripts from 'google-analytics.com' and 'facebook.com' to run on any websites makes it hard for google, etc to track your web activity.
I think it is far more apt to simply reverse it. "Only those who are in it for control don't believe in privacy."
It isn't about the illegal things, it is about the legal things that help make freedom a possibility. If the government can actively keep tabs on people who criticize the government, that can be a form of intimidation. That alone is enough to refute the argument described in the title.
It isn't about the illegal things, it is about the legal things that help make freedom a possibility. If the government can actively keep tabs on people who criticize the government, that can be a form of intimidation. That alone is enough to refute the argument described in the title.
Well, I can't really add too much to this topic. Everything has already been said. But yeah, this whole "People who want privacy have something to hide" argument is utter bullshit. Let's start the monitoring with our officials. I mean really, if it's SO important let's start with the ones who suggested it. To test the validity of the argument, let's monitor them for one month in the same way they're suggesting the general public be monitored.
It's not about security, it's about CONTROL! They want MORE control, because DAMN IT they do. And once again I feel the engorged claws of Greed have something to do with this. Because it's not enough for them.
It's not about security, it's about CONTROL! They want MORE control, because DAMN IT they do. And once again I feel the engorged claws of Greed have something to do with this. Because it's not enough for them.
It's probably already been said, but it bears repeating...
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
You ever wondered why people who make that claim are never willing to share things that are private to them with the rest of us, like their e-mail address and such?
Absolutely retarded argument.
Just because people who DO have something to hide insist on privacy, doesn't mean that all privacy is a scapegoat for some sort of first degree murder...
Fact of the matter is, people will do ANYTHING to get off Scott free. If that includes butchering privacy laws, then by god they'll do it...
To be honest, I am a strong believer in people being as private as they bloody well like. They shouldn't have to declare everything they do, so the government or some other third party entity can monitor them to see if they are doing everything the way they should be. That's an absolutely shite way to live... No secrets is a bad thing, sometimes privacy can be a hinderence, but if that is the case, it's one you'll have to bloody work around. In my eyes, privacy is a unmovable object of human rights.
Just because people who DO have something to hide insist on privacy, doesn't mean that all privacy is a scapegoat for some sort of first degree murder...
Fact of the matter is, people will do ANYTHING to get off Scott free. If that includes butchering privacy laws, then by god they'll do it...
To be honest, I am a strong believer in people being as private as they bloody well like. They shouldn't have to declare everything they do, so the government or some other third party entity can monitor them to see if they are doing everything the way they should be. That's an absolutely shite way to live... No secrets is a bad thing, sometimes privacy can be a hinderence, but if that is the case, it's one you'll have to bloody work around. In my eyes, privacy is a unmovable object of human rights.
all it comes down to is another way to keep the 1% above the 99%. who would this info be used against? who would benefit from it? The upper class being able to sniff about everyone's info and slap a huge fine on anything that can break a law or a copyright.
Things like these, laws that we have, giving up information, never gets out like it should if it's harmful to the top brass.
Child scandals? How many priests were moved out of churches when scandals start, Not stopped, not justed moved to another state or country.
Government Bribery? Well one just came up a few weeks ago with people trying to pay (hundreds of thousands?) for approval of sopa and pipa?
How about just showing us the blatant ignorance's of our congress? Approving the Patriot act, The last big bill that passed that murdered are freedom, And afterward Congressman admitting they didn't even READ the god damn bill before passing it.
The only people that need to be watched, are the people that are suppose to be working for the people, The ones we put in charge to guard our rights and freedom, The people we pay with our tax money to do so. Who watches the watchers?
Things like these, laws that we have, giving up information, never gets out like it should if it's harmful to the top brass.
Child scandals? How many priests were moved out of churches when scandals start, Not stopped, not justed moved to another state or country.
Government Bribery? Well one just came up a few weeks ago with people trying to pay (hundreds of thousands?) for approval of sopa and pipa?
How about just showing us the blatant ignorance's of our congress? Approving the Patriot act, The last big bill that passed that murdered are freedom, And afterward Congressman admitting they didn't even READ the god damn bill before passing it.
The only people that need to be watched, are the people that are suppose to be working for the people, The ones we put in charge to guard our rights and freedom, The people we pay with our tax money to do so. Who watches the watchers?
Everybody has something to hide, and bringing it out into the open isn't going to help anybody. Politicians are either incredibly stupid or are incredibly in denial if they think they won't have just as much to lose as everybody else if this goes through.