One more excellent reason to have permadeath is that it forces the game designers to give their all. Consider a problem with some end-game level which causes a totally unfair gotcha death to many who play that section. In a game with saves, the glitch might conceivably be left there. A lot of gamers would shrug and reload, maybe a little annoyed of having to replay from last save, but many of them wouldn't even remember it later. Contrast to a situation where the game was permadeath. An unfair random death would lead to a large amount of players quitting the game on the spot, and you can't afford that to happen, so the design would have to be extremely polished.
Permanent Character Death
- Thread starter SquirrelPants
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That's true, technically. Dying and redoing your steps is usually not immersive. But that's not the point: the point is the knowledge that you will lose everything if you die is extremely immersive in the right games.the antithesis said:
Ideally, the player should fear death so much that they tread carefully enough to never actually die.
No No and thrice no, can you even begin to COMPREHEND the insane amount of griefing that makes possible?Crazzee said:
In other games, I think.... maybe, but i'd take convincing on this concept when a simple screw up could fuck you over for hours of work.
Diablo 2 has a similiar thing were you can decide to go a hero character. They find rare items at a higher rate but if you die, thats it, your gone forever!
I prefer the rules in Lineage 2 more, if you die you lose a bit of exp and you have a small chance of dropping an item in your inventory. Great punishment! This stopped everyone screwing around too much but then they got rid of it to make it more like WOW. Fucking sell-outs!
I prefer the rules in Lineage 2 more, if you die you lose a bit of exp and you have a small chance of dropping an item in your inventory. Great punishment! This stopped everyone screwing around too much but then they got rid of it to make it more like WOW. Fucking sell-outs!
Thats one of the main reasons it at the top of my wanted list. I think that there's only 4 or 5 playable characters as well, but even if they all die you still get an ending (though probably not a very good one).pantsoffdanceoff said:
I guess you could say you only get 4 "lives" in heavy rain, and it would be a hell of a lot more literal than in most games.
It might work in some games, but-oh, who am I kidding? If a game has permanent player death and no saves, I wouldn't play it. I would hate to have my lv 25 mage in Oblivion killed because I pissed off a guard. Saves are my anwser to phonex down. Except it is not quite as good.
So in short:
no
In long:
nnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnooooooooooooooooooooooooo
So in short:
no
In long:
nnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnooooooooooooooooooooooooo
I think for an MMO this would be interesting. Though MMO game forums are bad enough that no dev team would EVER get away with it. It's the end of the world if a weapon or armor get nefred down 5% for gameplay balance. I can hear the cries now. Most ppl in the more popular mmo's play to be uber and nothing else. So yea good luck pitching that idea. I like it though.
There could of course be reserections by high level cleric/priest classes, with perhaps a time limit until your DEAD DEAD. But none of this poof your dead. and a re-spawn however it may be done in that particular game. There would be a fear of consequence which is rare these days. And being high level would actually mean something again.
Me personally i like making alts in mmo's. Everyone is always in such a mad dash to the level cap. To me in sense that's game over for a game thats really based around character development and the journey to the top.
There could of course be reserections by high level cleric/priest classes, with perhaps a time limit until your DEAD DEAD. But none of this poof your dead. and a re-spawn however it may be done in that particular game. There would be a fear of consequence which is rare these days. And being high level would actually mean something again.
Me personally i like making alts in mmo's. Everyone is always in such a mad dash to the level cap. To me in sense that's game over for a game thats really based around character development and the journey to the top.
No just no. This way lie Hitman and Project IGI; this way lies madness.Crazzee said:
Seriously, what would you rather have, a slight reduction in the feeling of danger or a FRIGGIN' ENORMOUS increase in frustration because a particularly hard part of the game sends you back to the start of the level whenever you fail it?
Fire Emblem does it, if one of your characters die, you can't recover them without restarting the whole mission. That's where you have to be very strategic. It's an immersive concept, but it would suck out some of the fun in some games.
Yea or with a game like Fallout, you can turn off the autosave.Redkop said:
It's impossible to play through the game in one night so you'll have to save but at least you can control the points yourself.
I say its a terrible idea. except maybe on a game like left 4 dead. on an mmo like WOW. My character has died from so much bullshit so many times lvl 38 errrllllaaagggimdead. level 53 oh shit a ?? horde asshole im dead. level 70 i just spent a year playing this character and some nine year old ran in and got everyone in the raid killed.. ann im dead...
Yeah, I think at that point I would want something real to die.
Games have to have something to keep gamers playing the game and not from throwing their controllers at a wall and kicking their dog. And permanent death is definitely not it.
Yeah, I think at that point I would want something real to die.
Games have to have something to keep gamers playing the game and not from throwing their controllers at a wall and kicking their dog. And permanent death is definitely not it.
I read something about Mass effect 2 that does something like this.. Doidn't really care cause ME is not my cup of tea.
Still, Its funn when you do it in Oblivion. I only save when I rest, unless I have to shut the game off at an unexpected time
Still, Its funn when you do it in Oblivion. I only save when I rest, unless I have to shut the game off at an unexpected time
The same thing happend to me, exept is wan't a glitch. I had a HC 60+ level Necro, a total bad ass. We had a really big public game going and we were in the section where you fight Diablo. Some noob broke a seal before anyone was ready and 30 extremely tought enemies (due to the number of players) spawned on top of me and I died instantly.Idocreating said:
I havn't played Diablo since... That is what permanent character death does.
I do think that you (OP) have a point though. If you die and your last checkpoint/autosave was 5 minutes ago... oh darn, I have to play that 5 minutes over again.
I have just started playing MGS4 (Way late, I know, but they dropped the price so I couldn't resist) and you can easily spend 20-30 min of gaming (not cutscenes, gaming) without a checkpoint. I found this did cause me to play the game differently (for the better). I was way more cautious and thought about every move I made. This is staple for a MGS game, but I think it is the happy medium between permanent character death and checkpoints/savepoints every three steps.
We already have it in games. It's called self control. If you die you start again, simple as that.