Personal Opinion on Religion (Atheist View)

[traceur_]

once again you're arguing and not answering the question, no one said religious people can't respond but since this is a thread about the atheist view of religion, the views of religious people are hardly relevant in this discussion. As for how I would react in the situations you suggested, I would react in exactly the same way, if it was the theists view of atheism I wouldn't post anything since my atheism would make my post irrelevant. Once again no one was told to not respond.

1. The op never asked a question.

2. The op never stated this was about the atheist view of religion, he stated it was his personal view of religion. In fact he specifically stated he was open to all views, so the views of religious people are "relevant".

3. A bunch of people (who are not atheists) come in and make a few ignorant and insulting posts about religion, and you are asking religious people to just sit there and take it?!

dude the question is what your personal opinion of religion is, and read the damn title, see in brackets where it says (atheist view) yeh that means it is the atheist personal opinion of religion, and for your third point, why do you care? If you think they are wrong why should you give a shit about what they think. If you want to post your opinion just do it and stop arguing with other people's opinions.

also man, I don't think we'll ever agree so how about we just agree to disagree, so truce?

*extends hand*

yo when i said atheist it meant that MY PERSONAL VIEw is based off my atheism, I have to agree with cuddly tomatoes arguement but i see how it would be easy to mistake it.

then I admit i was mistaken and offer my apologies, though please make it clearer next time, one must take care with a religion thread as it can dissolve into something such as this quite easily.

 

[NubletInc]

You might be a sinner. I am not. I might look at dirty pictures and have extremely impure thoughts about women, I might use the word "fuck" an average of 7 times a second, I might not believe in any omnipotent God at all and think that all life is in some way 'spiritually divine', hell... I even think that humans are not more important than animals!

If you think those are sins, good for you. To me, they are just the way I am. Nobody is watching me from on high, I have my own conscience to keeping me from turning into an evil twat. If ones only motivation for being a 'good' person is that they are being watched by a God then that person isn't 'good' at all.

Ok this is tough for me. I try to be un-arrogant. Tolerant. Whatever you want to call it. But I am now faced with the issue of someone calling me, my God, and my Savior a liar. How shall I then reply?

I never actually said that was the only reason for someone to be good. The best reason to be good that I can think of is our Blessed Hope, the second coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and the eternal reward and crown of Righteousness promised all who will repent and follow Christ.

I see a problem with your last sentence you say OUR lord j.c, yet to those you are replying he is not can that not be seen as arrogant as well, I am merely pointing out flaw I have no disagreement in your right to see the world as you wish and i do believe cuddly tomato's post can be seen the same as you stated, but there can be deeper meanings merely expressed "incorrectly"

 

[NubletInc]

I agree with every post so far. Especially OP.


EDIT: Except for this one.

Oh and its 4 in the morning and I'm being kept awake by a now half-empty 2 litre of coke.

In other words, 1 litre of coke

I'm atheist too but some people enjoy religion and I just let 'em get on with it.

As for the question of why God would allow suffering... well, I'll leave that one up to a religious fellow.

Agreeing with OP entirely, I have to say, I disagree. As someone who believes that the only way our species can advance is through, I believe that allowing people to go "fuck it, I can do whatever I want because it's god's plan for me; I'm gonna sit at home, jerk off and live off my girlfriend for the rest of my life because if god wanted me to do differently, he'd say so" for the rest of eternity can only be detrimental to humanity as a whole.

So how about the people who claim that God said "stop living off your girlfriend and do something useful", and went off and did something useful?

I'm single and as I've aid 16 therefore living with parents, as was legally necessary until recently

 

[NubletInc]

With this outlook I can give much more freely, because I am simply giving back to the rightful owner and who gave me everything I have anyway. If anything i think the Christian world view allows you to give more than most people do.

Not at all. There are many good Christians out there, but equally many good Buddhists, Muslims, atheists, and Eskimos. What allows some people to give more than others is their own level of altruism balanced with their level of greedy douchebaggery. I wouldn't even try making a case that such things are dependent on religion.

So you believe that nature gave us a conscience so we could evolve complex societies? Why do we need complex societies? You said yourself we are equal with animals and plants, but they don't need nations, boundaries, government or as far as we know, consciences to survive.

I mean equal in "life", not equal in "ability". There is a clear advantage in being social, ask any wolf. And having a conscience makes having larger and "less personal" social groups more possible.

The larger the group, the greater the ability to survive. In the distant past humans had some nasty enemies stalking them, worst of all was other humans.

I think you just changed your position on Scripture... before you implied it was definitely wrong. Now you say you think so? Do you have a particular reason you doubt Scripture?

Yep. The Bible is self contradictory and is extremely convoluted. I am not someone who thinks it is "evil" or anything... rather I think it is a mirror for the soul. An evil person will find evil there. A good person would see the good things. Because frankly it contains both. The Bible is not something that appeals to me personally though, and while I don't reject it, I find it just "doesn't work".

If I may respectfully pose another question: Why is it we can debate philosophy? Why is it we, as humans, have multiple religions, why is it we invent, why is it we craft art? Why can we be intelligent? Are these all absolutely necessary to survival? Is a soul, as you said you believe in, also necessary?

I believe a soul is necessary to define the difference between a living entity and a simple lump of non-living matter. What is the real difference between a tree and a rock? A tree lives.

As for the rest...? I believe that if any one being wanted us all to believe one particular thing, he or she would have made damn sure what that thing was. As the various religions and faiths of human history is not consistent with that, diversity is obviously being favoured by whatever driving forces are at hand, whether it's human creativity, an evolutionary advantage in religiousity, or supernatural entities bombing around making our lives difficult.

What the truth is, that is anyones guess.

You make accusations on Scripture such as its being convoluted, but I can hardly defend my beliefs when you make such a generic statement. I need examples if I am to help you with problems you have.

I don't think saying what you believe God would have done differs from reality is a valid objection. If you were God and you were perfect holy just infinitely wise and had all the attributes of God in Scripture you would have done the same thing God did, according to the Bible. So you can debate the reliability of the Bible but saying God did something wrong when you are a fallible human being is poor logic, as far as I can see.

Robinkom, if you have any specific passages of Scripture that make you think it is less than what it claims to be, please tell.

Sorry t say but that shit is stupid and fucking pointless if he wanted your help would he be saying this would he flame yor religion would he accuse your beliefs HE DOESN'T WANT YOUR HELP stop trying.

 

[NubletInc]

Will these threads ever stop !?

You're not helping by posting this

 

[traceur_]

yeh this thread failed 1/3 of the way down the second page, mods please lock it.

EDIT: disregard this post, I made it in haste, this thread may live for a while longer.

 

[Schnippshly]

SIGH. Y'know, I'm an atheist, and still, when I see another atheist just "being atheist" it annoys me for some reason!
Religions have definitely been a breeding ground for evil, discrimination and generally bad things, but... Well, I can't really think of any way to defend them, though they at least PROMOTE "being nice" in general. I dunno', Christianity constantly uses God as a reference tool to keep people down nowadays (and back-in-the-days), misquoting the bible (or using some parts and ignoring others), perverting the whole idea of Christianity. And when is the last time the whole of Islam got really pissed off because someone did something BARELY offensive to their religion? Like, ten minutes ago?
I'd hate to think that when you die you just stop existing, but that's the only thing that seems reasonable "scientifically". Like, your brain is everything, your thoughts, memories, feelings, bodily functions, EVERYTHING. When someone's literally retarded, their SOUL isn't damaged, their brain is! So, is their brain just a broken tool being used by their soul, or is the brain actually them, still broken? When they go to Heaven, will they stop being retarded? Would that even be a good thing?
I heard some guy say that human clones wouldn't have souls. So suddenly they wouldn't count as real people with real feelings, because they didn't come out of a woman! What a bunch of stupid shit.

 

[NubletInc]

Okay...

Every day. EVERY DAY there is some thread by some Atheist very LOUDLY voicing his or her opinion whether you agree its loud or not. Trust me, its loud.

I find it very ironic how Atheists whine about how "Oh you Bible Thumper's push your Religion onto us" at the very mention of someone being Religious and yet I come here to regularly find some thread that's at least semi-anti-Religion and is written by some Atheist.

Would you like some advice to increase your credibility? If you want us to stop talking about our Religion, then stop talking about your lack of Religion. Your no better then we ever could be.

Don't take this the wrong way, your post is very calm but it also seems like a token post if you know what I mean. Its unnecessary just like most Religion related threads occurring on the Escapist. Please let it end.

And yet again I merely would like to express my iews I refuse to push my religion on others if inadvertantly (fuck it I now its spelled wrog but its long and Im tired) I have done so it kind of says something about your own faith or lack of. I have said it many times and clearly will say it again MY VIEW, merely stating it and showing tht it differs from others, if you were to post your so put "bible thumping" I would look at it with the same interest i give any other forum with lack of relevance to me. And honestly thanks for saying my post was calm but that calm's running out with all this stupid shit i didn't want here, I am not speaking to you only, and i find truth in your words, but the people who step into my topic and choose to thump OTHERS beliefs by means of flaming or trying to "correct" their beliefs, just leave and save us the trouble of reading the posts based on a grudge no longer abiding by any means of "tolerance", I hate that word in my opinion tolerance isn't changing your view merely "allowing" the other to be there, i believe acceptance is much better and leads to less conflict. Sorry kinda strayed off the point i do that alot. And post about your religion all you bloody well want just expect the same flak your firing at the same time

 

[NubletInc]

britthill your an idiot... there i said it.if you believe in a light that created the universe youre a fukin retard (no offence)

God allows suffering because mankind choice to disobey Him. God loves everyone and therefore He gives us a choice whether to accept Him or deny Him. I'm not going to go into a huge spiel about this, but if you want the answers to those questions, go to the first book of the Bible (Genisis). God allows bad things to happen because we have asked Him to step out of our lives and just leave us alone. Therefore, He has stepped out. Why should we tell Him to back off and then when bad things happen, ask Him to help us? (You probably figured it out, but I'm a Christian)

Please stop posting in my topic, my above post is best summarized by reading your posts.

 

[NubletInc]

u r a f.u.k.i.n mental case. i tried putting that as simple as i could seeing that u live i a cellar eating flies. i mean how can you belive in a fukin light that has a fukin plan for us all. how about this for a plan u are born becaus sum prick in a fukin dress told your parents that they cant use condoms so you hav like 20 siblings. you live in a fukin hut made of dirt you have like 1 piece of bread a fort night then u run out of bread and starve to death... great fukin plan god i wish i could think up somthing like tha wow what a beautiful life

I haven't read through all six pages of this stuff, so hopefully I won't only say things that have already been said.

I guess first and foremost, the loving God argument. This is a tricky one that I don't believe anybody fully understands. My belief is God created everything and has a plan for everything (fate) that still allows for choice (free will).

Before anybody goes off to tell me this is a contradiction, it's not. If there's a snake in a glass case, and I put a mouse in there, everybody knows what will happen. The snake, whether immediately or when it gets hungry, will eat that mouse. By manipulating the situation (using a plan) but allowing the snake to choose what to do (not ramming the mouse down its throat) there exists both a certain fate and free will. I believe God manipulates circumstances so that we will react in a very exact way because he knows our hearts and minds completely. People will argue that this isn't total freedom, and they're right, but neither is it a total lack of freedom. Thus, both exist in a balance.

It's very confusing when you think of the enormity of it (whether you believe it or not) and I don't claim to understand everything. I don't know exactly why God allows things such as rape and murder to happen, but it's important to remember that God only allows it and certainly does not want it. Since God also allows us to be good to one another, it is therefore up to us to how we act. It's easy to fall into a trap of why there is such suffering caused by people, without also looking at how God uses other people for good. And when I say God uses people for good, this is most certainly not exclusive to people who believe in God, Christian or otherwise. (However, doing good works does not make somebody saved. I'll elaborate shortly.)

By giving people the choice to do good or bad, God is basically the same as a parent. Parents will only harm children by sheltering them too much, because then the child will not learn or otherwise grow as a person properly.

God is not only loving, but also just, which means that people have to be held accountable for laws broken. Any law broken is a choice made for one to separate himself from God. So ultimately, people choose to separate themselves from God. (And that's what hell is, an eternity separated from God.) Since breaking any one law at any time during life make somebody a sinner (sin in Greek meaning "missing the mark" like in archery, meaning anything short of perfection or goodness, basically). God knew that people would screw up, and the law was in place to let people know how they fell short. The law never saved anybody, it was faith.

Romans 4: 1-3

What then shall we say that Abraham, our forefather, discovered in this matter? If, in fact, Abraham was justified by works, he had something to boast about, but not before God. What does the Scripture say? "Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness."

The short version is that God planned to save all nations through the descendants of Abraham, the Jews, but at any time any other person could have faith in God and be saved. As an example: Rahab, a prostitute living in Jericho, showed a faith in God and hid Jewish spies from the king of Jericho. She is a direct ancestor of Jesus, though she was not a Jew herself.

Now then, since the Jews failed miserably in sharing God with other nations, God sent Jesus so that through him all nations might know God, giving the Holy Spirit freely to anyone who accepted it through baptism.

This is a very short version and contextually there's much more to it than this, but this explains what I believe spiritually and historically. I hope this helps give people an understanding. I'm willing to answer any comments or questions as well.

Wait, is this the Northpaw from the LotRO forums who I think started that .abc music thread and who I got some really great songs from?

I restate my request GET THE FUCK OUT NOW!!!

 

[NubletInc]

once again you're arguing and not answering the question, no one said religious people can't respond but since this is a thread about the atheist view of religion, the views of religious people are hardly relevant in this discussion. As for how I would react in the situations you suggested, I would react in exactly the same way, if it was the theists view of atheism I wouldn't post anything since my atheism would make my post irrelevant. Once again no one was told to not respond.

1. The op never asked a question.

2. The op never stated this was about the atheist view of religion, he stated it was his personal view of religion. In fact he specifically stated he was open to all views, so the views of religious people are "relevant".

3. A bunch of people (who are not atheists) come in and make a few ignorant and insulting posts about religion, and you are asking religious people to just sit there and take it?!

dude the question is what your personal opinion of religion is, and read the damn title, see in brackets where it says (atheist view) yeh that means it is the atheist personal opinion of religion, and for your third point, why do you care? If you think they are wrong why should you give a shit about what they think. If you want to post your opinion just do it and stop arguing with other people's opinions.

also man, I don't think we'll ever agree so how about we just agree to disagree, so truce?

*extends hand*

yo when i said atheist it meant that MY PERSONAL VIEw is based off my atheism, I have to agree with cuddly tomatoes arguement but i see how it would be easy to mistake it.

then I admit i was mistaken and offer my apologies, though please make it clearer next time, one must take care with a religion thread as it can dissolve into something such as this quite easily.

Now you i like, calmly accepting mistakes and correcting them, I believe sir hiks could learn from you, and I am sorry I guess it was a generalistic description but then again it is the name of the topic therefore short(ish) and sweet

 

[NubletInc]

As you probably see i just read from where i last left off pg5 and quoted anything i felt like since then, excuse me for being late but it's what i do. And thank you all for posting your beliefs and I am truly surprised at how little flaming or belief bashing there has been I believe this to be a very mature and accepting forum in comparison to others.

 

[cuddly_tomato]

wtf cuddly tomato u fukin retard there is a reason for the moon and the sun and the water and food

Learn to comprehend what someone is saying in a post before you call them a "u fukin retard", or do not post yourself, lest you look like a total idiot.

That isn't a failing of mine, nor of yours, but it is not your job to 'educate' me into Christianity. I am not 'wrong'.

Therein lies the problem. biblicaly you are wrong. The idea that 'all paths lead to god' does not exist in Christianity. Christians may believe that but that is rather a fault rather than divine "rubber stamp of approval"
Course my job, biblically is merely to state "you are wrong, Jesus is the son of God, and the only path to god. Salvation for all in this direction!."
And it is technically at that point im supposed to leave it. youve heard the good news, if you want to know more you will ask. I dont see the point of trying to force my faith on you any further than stating the above once, as it will only drive you away from my intended target. not a good thing.

What difference does it make? If you are right I am going to heaven anyway. If I am right I am going to absorbed back into the natural world via worm guts and my essence will rejoin it all. Seriously... why is it so important to some Christians that people become Christians?

Every day. EVERY DAY there is some thread by some Atheist very LOUDLY voicing his or her opinion whether you agree its loud or not. Trust me, its loud.

I find it very ironic how Atheists whine about how "Oh you Bible Thumper's push your Religion onto us" at the very mention of someone being Religious and yet I come here to regularly find some thread that's at least semi-anti-Religion and is written by some Atheist.

Would you like some advice to increase your credibility? If you want us to stop talking about our Religion, then stop talking about your lack of Religion. Your no better then we ever could be.

They are not really atheists, in the same way that heterosexuals are not homophobic. In fact I find it likely that a lot of those anti-theists believe in God, they just hate themselves for it. I don't believe in God, and I am comfortable with that belief, and thus don't feel the need to ram it down the throats or disrespect the beliefs of those who do believe it.

 

[Vanguard_Ex]

^ That ^ pretty much sums up my problem. No, we don't know anything. You think you know there is a God. Please keep that to yourself or anyone who believes in the same God. Don't tell me I'm a sinner and that your God is mine please. I haven't started going on about evolution to anybody, so don't start that shite. I don't want a controlling power because my life is mine. How can you not see how incredibly arrogant it is to say that just because I don't believe in your God I live a consequentless and guilt-free life? I'll spare you any further retaliation, which may suprise you because, of course, godless heathens have no morals, do they?

Shit, I was afraid this would happen.
You know, as a Christian, I used to be all into that street preaching, handing out tracts stuff. Seriously, it's true. And then I came to a realization that made me go 'Why didn't I see that before?': People don't like being preached at.
Let me say it once more, with proper emphasis: People don't like being preached at.
Makes sense, right? Johnny Jim (Or Vanguard_Ex) walking down the road doesn't want people jumping in front of him telling him how he's hell-bound. I wouldn't like it, that's for sure.

As much as modern evangelicals don't like to admit it: If God gave us the freedom to believe, then that automatically means we have the freedom to not believe. Now I'm a through and through Christian. I fully believe in the life, death, and resurrection of Jesus Christ for the salvation of our sins. Yup, the whole shebang.
But there is something I noticed about the ministry of Christ: When he preached to people...they wanted to listen. They followed Him in droves! He couldn't get a moment to himself, practically. The one time Jesus got 'in your face', was when they were defiling the temple, God's house.

What I'm saying is that Jesus acted first, and talked second. He showed love, showed grace, showed mercy and forgiveness in a time where those things weren't easily seen from a religious leader. And once people realized this guy was something different, then they wanted to hear what he had to say. He didn't chase people down, or yell in the market place. They came to Him.

What I'm getting at is this:
Vanguard, I know from personal experience that it's easy to get your back up about something like this. While we don't have to agree on the nature or existence of God (I don't think we do. Seems like you're an atheist...?), the last couple posts of this thread have been pretty good about mutual respect through differing worldviews. I know if can be hard, but let's try to remain that way.

The1ringer, don't think I'm asking you to water down or hide your faith. What I will ask, however, is to be understanding of the differing, and even opposing, positions here. You yourself said you were evangelistic. 'Classic' evangelism, I would put to you, may not work as well here as you might think. I tried being similar when I first arrived (For those who remember the 'Why all the hate on Christianity?' thread from back in the day), and I quickly realized my mistakes. Even the Apostle Paul spoke to the experience of those he ministered to, using verses and quotes from local priests and poems. I think you should use similar tact, if this topic is going to continue it's course.

Basically: Let's all get along.

Johnny Jim would like to point out that is exactly what my very first post was saying -_-

 

[Vanguard_Ex]

Everyone wants to feel that their universe is in some sort of control. I say, when you get right down to it, we're all the same no matter what our beliefs.

Ah, but some that I have met do not wish this. There are some who wish for there to be no controlling power so they can do whatever they want whenever they want with no guilt or eternal consequences attached. Christianity is the most uncomfortable and yet comforting religion I know of. We know there is a God who knows more about us than we do. He watches everyone's every move. For a sinner (and I think we all, if we are honest, are sinners), a perfectly Holy and Just God who watches your every move is a very disturbing and uncomfortable thing! He even knows sins you've committed when you didn't know it, and he always knew it.

To those that say God's omnipotence or any other virtue is too hard to comprehend: That's how I would expect it to be! In order for us to comprehend an infinite God we ourselves would need to be, I think, infinite! We know from our personal experiences that it is impossibly hard to understand things you have never done seen or been apart of.

I agree with Baby_Tea that nonsense is still nonsense, that is why we can have any logical argument whatsoever. If God created us with no sense of order or logic life as we know it would be impossible.

To quote C.S. Lewis, "Perhaps we feel inclined to disagree with [God]. But there is a difficulty about disagreeing with God. He is the source from which all your reasoning power comes: you could not be right and He wrong any more than a stream can rise higher than its own source. When you are arguing against the very power that makes you able to argue at all: it is like cutting off the branch you are sitting on."

From what I see from this thread most issues seem to have to do with an extremely elevated view of man and an extremely limited view of God. This is perfectly understandable. We, in our sin, desire to elevate ourselves above God, everyone does it. We always think of our glory as more important than God's. We can only get a glimpse of each of His attributes in this life, so we seek to put a limit on Him because we are creatures ashamed of our open rebellion before a Righteous Wrathful, and Just God.

Ah for fuck sake, I began reading your post expecting you to be an objective person but now it's obvious you're exactly the same kind of person I was originally going to say in my post that I turn my hostility towards. Unfortunate.

'We know there is a God who knows more about us than we do.'

^ That ^ pretty much sums up my problem. No, we don't know anything. You think you know there is a God. Please keep that to yourself or anyone who believes in the same God. Don't tell me I'm a sinner and that your God is mine please. I haven't started going on about evolution to anybody, so don't start that shite. I don't want a controlling power because my life is mine. How can you not see how incredibly arrogant it is to say that just because I don't believe in your God I live a consequentless and guilt-free life? I'll spare you any further retaliation, which may suprise you because, of course, godless heathens have no morals, do they?

I never said you were any of those things. I said I know some who are. I did not mean to say what you think I said. I am sorry, I will correct my post. Thank you for pointing this out, that's why I came here.

I do not believe that you have no morals. In Scripture we read that all who have not heard the Gospel or the Law will be judged according to the Law which God has placed on their hearts: their conscience.

May I ask how you know that your life is your own?

Because I choose to do what I do. What I am now, what my life is at this moment in time, is what it is because of the choices I have made in the past and the choices I make every day. My answers come from myself and those around me, not a supernatural being.

 

[Northpaw]

Because I choose to do what I do. What I am now, what my life is at this moment in time, is what it is because of the choices I have made in the past and the choices I make every day. My answers come from myself and those around me, not a supernatural being.

I partly disagree with you on that. You make all your own decisions, yes, but what you do not decide is what circumstances come your way and what kind of decisions they would require you to make. This simply means that not everything is in your control, nor will it ever be. My personal belief is that if nothing is in control, the world would be a lot more screwed up and chaotic. But since people have a very real sense of orderliness, I figure it came from somewhere.

 

[Matronadena]

I've always considered that our " orderly ways" stem for from " Mindfulness, self control, self discipline, forethought, compassion, common sense ( which is apparently not as common as the word suggests these days) and trial and error"

basically you can't have a good hunting party without some conduct, and rules, cant keep a clan together without some control, cant form a society without it, and as I see that nature in things other than human, lead me to hold it as something thats a basic need for any species living in a group/troop/pack/clan etc

 

[Vanguard_Ex]

Because I choose to do what I do. What I am now, what my life is at this moment in time, is what it is because of the choices I have made in the past and the choices I make every day. My answers come from myself and those around me, not a supernatural being.

I partly disagree with you on that. You make all your own decisions, yes, but what you do not decide is what circumstances come your way and what kind of decisions they would require you to make. This simply means that not everything is in your control, nor will it ever be. My personal belief is that if nothing is in control, the world would be a lot more screwed up and chaotic. But since people have a very real sense of orderliness, I figure it came from somewhere.

But if you read what I said again you'll find that what I said is actually reasonable. I took into account the fact that I don't control what circumstances happen, but I do choose what to do in these circumstances. I never said everything was in my control, so I actually wasn't really wrong.

 

[TheDoctor455]

Really, when it gets right down to it, the only purpose that religion serves at this point is to give the various peoples of the world someone to blame. Oh sure, some deities tend to take more responsibility than others, and sure some of them try to claim the bastard child we call Earth as their own creation (probably because there's some money involved), and of course, there are some deities that just pop off for lunch and don't claim any responsibility whatsoever for making the world (despite the fact that I am an atheist, I can sympathize with that last category, because only an insane person would want to be BLAMED for creating the world).

Now there's the other funny thing about religion. Most of them claim that some invisible being in the sky created us in its image. What these religions also don't seem to acknowledge very often (at least as far as I've noticed), is that fact that this goes beyond appearances. And since every human being that has ever existed, then... this means that this invisible being in the sky is the original schizophrenic. One minute this being is benevolent and loves us all unconditionally, the next, this being is a raving alcoholic betting all or nothing at the roulette wheel with its sights on a huge pile of chips that it hopes to cash in on in order to pay for the prostitute giggling excitedly under this being's right arm (or in some cases, tentacle).

 

[Northpaw]

I've always considered that our " orderly ways" stem for from " Mindfulness, self control, self discipline, forethought, compassion, common sense ( which is apparently not as common as the word suggests these days) and trial and error"

basically you can't have a good hunting party without some conduct, and rules, cant keep a clan together without some control, cant form a society without it, and as I see that nature in things other than human, lead me to hold it as something thats a basic need for any species living in a group/troop/pack/clan etc

That's a good explanation, but it isn't a full explanation. It explains how it might have happened, but it doesn't explain ultimately why.

But if you read what I said again you'll find that what I said is actually reasonable. I took into account the fact that I don't control what circumstances happen, but I do choose what to do in these circumstances. I never said everything was in my control, so I actually wasn't really wrong.

I probably misunderstood a little, but I still say you are what you are partly because of the circumstances you were put in, which is beyond your control. While your answers come from yourself, you're still forced to answer the questions that are given to you, which shape you similarly, because nobody answers a question that was never asked. I hope I'm not being redundant, but I think that gets the point across.