which brings up a better concern? why does Cliff get as much attention as he does?Bulletinmybrain said:
i understand that Gears of War sold well, but Cliff isn't the second coming of Carmack. Carmack actually writes code.
Peter Molyneux vs CliffyB
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i understand that Gears of War sold well, but Cliff isn't the second coming of Carmack. Carmack actually writes code.
Cause cliffyb is a attention whore and creates drama so that raises peoples attention more people know of him and more people buy his games...Sorta like webcomics.BallPtPenTheif said:
Molyneux, CB hasn't really done that much. He's just a person that many gamers feel that they can relate to and so they like him more than other devs. Wait, that was the sound of the holes ripping in my argument
i doubt your average consumer even knows who the hell he is. which is why it is so bothersome, because it must mean that he's getting all this adulation from the gaming press and online communities... people who should be smarter enough to not be lured in by his blunt demeanor.Bulletinmybrain said:
i was watching G4 and they kissed his ass so badly like he was an iconic game designer.
Yeah and I thought the gaming industry was better then that. You know listen to the people with talent like miyamoto(sorry if I got it wrong lol.(before he went on the crazy train.)BallPtPenTheif said:
And not clean the boots of some guy yet to show talent at anything other then blood. Seriously thats why gears is so damn fun its the blood and dismemberments. Do you play gears for the story? No cause the cliff threw it out to make more room for blood, Do you play it for the characters? No cause everythings sterotyped especially the black guy.
It's not so much of how MUCH innovation there is, as how it is fit together. You could have the most innovative game in the world; but fux with the story, controls, and gameplay too much, and you have a terrible game. Likewise, you could have the least innovative game, but still draw in massive crowds because killing pixels is FUN dammit.
Will Wright began working on Sim City in 1985, so I doubt that Molyneux can actually be called the father of god games. I've heard bad things about Black and White, and when buying Fable out of a bargain bin based solely on hearing that "it's supposed to be good", I found it to be exceedingly meh. What else did he do?
He created fable, A damn good game if you didn't read stuff about it before it came out.Break said:
Cliff: Jazz Jackrabbit, Unreal and Gears of War.
Peter: The Movies: Stunts & Effects (2006), Activision Publishing, Inc.
Black & White 2 (2005), Electronic Arts, Inc.
Black & White 2 (Collector's Edition) (2005), Electronic Arts, Inc.
Fable: The Lost Chapters (2005), Microsoft Game Studios
The Movies (Premiere Edition) (2005), Activision Publishing, Inc.
The Movies (2005), Activision Publishing, Inc.
Codename: Panzers - Phase One (2004), CDV Software Entertainment AG
Fable (2004), Microsoft Game Studios
Republic: The Revolution (2003), Eidos, Inc.
Black & White (2001), Electronic Arts, Inc.
Homeworld (Game of the Year Edition) (2000), Sierra On-Line, Inc.
Homeworld (1999), Sierra On-Line UK
Dungeon Keeper Gold (1998), Electronic Arts, Inc.
Dungeon Keeper (1997), Electronic Arts, Inc.
Dungeon Keeper: The Deeper Dungeons (1997), Electronic Arts, Inc.
Theme Hospital (1997), Electronic Arts, Inc.
Syndicate Wars (1996), Electronic Arts, Inc.
Hi-Octane (1995), Electronic Arts, Inc.
Magic Carpet: Hidden Worlds (1995), Electronic Arts, Inc.
Magic Carpet (1994), Electronic Arts, Inc.
Theme Park (1994), Electronic Arts, Inc.
Syndicate (1993), Electronic Arts, Inc.
Syndicate: American Revolt (1993), Electronic Arts, Inc.
Populous II: Trials of the Olympian Gods (1991), Electronic Arts, Inc.
Powermonger: World War 1 Edition (1991), Electronic Arts, Inc.
Flood (1990), Electronic Arts, Inc.
Powermonger (1990), Electronic Arts, Inc.
Populous (1989), Electronic Arts, Inc.
Populous: The Promised Lands (1989), Electronic Arts, Inc.
Druid II: Enlightenment (1988), Firebird Software Ltd.
Peter: The Movies: Stunts & Effects (2006), Activision Publishing, Inc.
Black & White 2 (2005), Electronic Arts, Inc.
Black & White 2 (Collector's Edition) (2005), Electronic Arts, Inc.
Fable: The Lost Chapters (2005), Microsoft Game Studios
The Movies (Premiere Edition) (2005), Activision Publishing, Inc.
The Movies (2005), Activision Publishing, Inc.
Codename: Panzers - Phase One (2004), CDV Software Entertainment AG
Fable (2004), Microsoft Game Studios
Republic: The Revolution (2003), Eidos, Inc.
Black & White (2001), Electronic Arts, Inc.
Homeworld (Game of the Year Edition) (2000), Sierra On-Line, Inc.
Homeworld (1999), Sierra On-Line UK
Dungeon Keeper Gold (1998), Electronic Arts, Inc.
Dungeon Keeper (1997), Electronic Arts, Inc.
Dungeon Keeper: The Deeper Dungeons (1997), Electronic Arts, Inc.
Theme Hospital (1997), Electronic Arts, Inc.
Syndicate Wars (1996), Electronic Arts, Inc.
Hi-Octane (1995), Electronic Arts, Inc.
Magic Carpet: Hidden Worlds (1995), Electronic Arts, Inc.
Magic Carpet (1994), Electronic Arts, Inc.
Theme Park (1994), Electronic Arts, Inc.
Syndicate (1993), Electronic Arts, Inc.
Syndicate: American Revolt (1993), Electronic Arts, Inc.
Populous II: Trials of the Olympian Gods (1991), Electronic Arts, Inc.
Powermonger: World War 1 Edition (1991), Electronic Arts, Inc.
Flood (1990), Electronic Arts, Inc.
Powermonger (1990), Electronic Arts, Inc.
Populous (1989), Electronic Arts, Inc.
Populous: The Promised Lands (1989), Electronic Arts, Inc.
Druid II: Enlightenment (1988), Firebird Software Ltd.
No, because all the suggestions for "wouldn't this be nice in an RPG" had already been talked about endlessly long before Molyneux set about trying to make Fable. If they'd actually pulled it off, that would be something. But, well, they didn't. They made Just Another Fantasy RPG.mjhhiv said:
Molyneux has contributed a ton to video games in his lifetime, but not to the "RPG" genre.
-- Alex
Oh, I edited too slowly. I bought Fable after hearing nothing about it. I didn't know the name Molynuex, or the reputation he has for making promises and failing to keep them. Even with all that, I found Fable to be extremely mediocre. It wasn't even a bad game. I nothinged it. I played it for about a month, and just forgot to go back to it. After hearing that it was supposed to be great, I played it again, and didn't enjoy it any more than I did the first time. I can't understand how so many people think it's so good. I like fantasy settings, moral choices, RPGs, and hack-and-slashers, but Fable just wasn't fun.Bulletinmybrain said:
Lists of games are nice, but meaningless without context. How many of those games were innovative, how many were fun?
It's nice to see everybody getting into this discussion, although I do believe the title of the thread has gotten more interest than the topic of discussion. Let's recap.
I personally wouldn't try comparing Pete and Cliff any more than I would compare David Bowie and Megadeth. Both work in the same industry, both have proved themselves to be talented and popular acts, but they are working in completely opposite sub-genres. One is constantly looking to reinvent himself and his craft, the other wants to make sure the loyal fans he has gained get to bang their fucking heads off on every album.
The point was not what they do, but how they do it.
Everyone and their dog knew about Fable long before any real gameplay footage was available and therefore a lot of people were disappointed when it didn't do what he said it would. Whereas with the exception of a few sketchy story elements and some hazy footage Gears was a mystery until almost release time, then it came out and it was like "Woh, I didn't expect it to play like this, this is pretty cool." If Gears had turned out shit then the lack of hype would of meant it wouldn't have even made a footnote in games history.
I personally prefer Molyneux's games, but I prefer the mysterious approach building interest.
I personally wouldn't try comparing Pete and Cliff any more than I would compare David Bowie and Megadeth. Both work in the same industry, both have proved themselves to be talented and popular acts, but they are working in completely opposite sub-genres. One is constantly looking to reinvent himself and his craft, the other wants to make sure the loyal fans he has gained get to bang their fucking heads off on every album.
The point was not what they do, but how they do it.
Everyone and their dog knew about Fable long before any real gameplay footage was available and therefore a lot of people were disappointed when it didn't do what he said it would. Whereas with the exception of a few sketchy story elements and some hazy footage Gears was a mystery until almost release time, then it came out and it was like "Woh, I didn't expect it to play like this, this is pretty cool." If Gears had turned out shit then the lack of hype would of meant it wouldn't have even made a footnote in games history.
I personally prefer Molyneux's games, but I prefer the mysterious approach building interest.
I'll go with the Molyneux's over the Cliffsters, now, I didn't like Fable and I didn't even hear about it until it was released, but at least it tried - like Assassin's Creed, the game had a horrendous amount of flaws but it was definitely worth your time, and because those games are getting support, they can fix their mistakes and we can get more interesting games, and then the "Cliffsters" can make different versions of a good game. Cliffy B. is with EPIC but I'll use "Uncharted" as an example, I just played it recently and despite that it doesn't really do anything new or interesting, what it does do, it does very well, and it makes it really fun to play.
So even though I think Molyneux wastes his time with making it possible to catch STDs and have the ability to fart on people, I think it's a step in the right direction, it takes guts to experiment like that.
So even though I think Molyneux wastes his time with making it possible to catch STDs and have the ability to fart on people, I think it's a step in the right direction, it takes guts to experiment like that.
Its kinda like the thought that count thing but its differnt, Molyneux is trying to make the game immersive and such, while cliffyb just wants people to buy his shit because it now has 10 people playing with each other at once instead of say the 30 vs 30 of R2. One is carving his own path and doing what he wants while another is fighting to be top-dog in a industry filled with stuff like his.ElArabDeMagnifico said:
I actually really like Peter. He has an enthusiasm and a passion for his work that I admire. Who cares if his games don't always live up to his hype, at least he comes off as a decent person, whereas Cliff is just something of a prick.
While I'd be the first to tell you that CliffyB is among the biggest sellouts in games at the moment and he is often rather dreadfully dressed, Unreal/Unreal Tournament is a big enough classic to overlook his recent deviations.
Molyneux has at least kept his stuff PC-only for the most part, even if it has been a bit hit-or-miss. Like cliffyb, he has a decent stable of classics to gauge his whiffs against.
I'm more or less on the fence.
Molyneux has at least kept his stuff PC-only for the most part, even if it has been a bit hit-or-miss. Like cliffyb, he has a decent stable of classics to gauge his whiffs against.
I'm more or less on the fence.
Also cliffyb is a hypocrite, he bashed mgs4 cut scenes and then the next week he is saying how good they are..Aries_Split said:
In spite of UT99 & 2k4 being among my favorite games, I think I have to go with PeteyM.
I just recently played Gears of War and hated it, but it did make me realize that the only Epic games that I ever really enjoyed were... UT99 & 2k4 despite having played everything from Jazz onward. UT3 really pissed me off.
PeteyM gets major points for Dungeon Keeper and especially Syndicate. Black and White was incredibly interesting even if it was a piss poor game. Fable was at least as fun as any non-UT Epic game despite its many flaws.
I just recently played Gears of War and hated it, but it did make me realize that the only Epic games that I ever really enjoyed were... UT99 & 2k4 despite having played everything from Jazz onward. UT3 really pissed me off.
PeteyM gets major points for Dungeon Keeper and especially Syndicate. Black and White was incredibly interesting even if it was a piss poor game. Fable was at least as fun as any non-UT Epic game despite its many flaws.
