Philosophical games?

[Farther than stars]

I heard there are older games that deal with philosophy. I don't know any, so can you recommend me some? Except PS:T, played that.

There's quite a lot of philosophical outlook to be found in art-type flash games. I'm thinking of "Today I Die", "Everyday the same dream", etc. "Company of Myself" even has some narration meant to evoke a deeper thought process about "the self". There's quite a lot of this kind of stuff out there to find, I'm just naming the best-known ones here.
Since you're going to be studying philosophy you might already know this, but I thought I should point out that quite a lot of philosophy majors end up being critics (of which a fair few of art), simply because both fields deal with creative outlook in a very similar way. So when you talk about games and philosophy, I find it's best to talk about games and art.
Like I said, try looking around for some art-type games. They usually help provoke ideas and inspirations.

 

[AlternatePFG]

Star Wars: KOTOR 2.

I wouldn't call KOTOR 2 philosophical, as much as it was a deconstruction of the themes of the first game, Star Wars and role playing games in general. Still had an amazing story though.

As for contributing to the topic, I think Tales of the Abyss had some pretty interesting philosophical elements to it. If you can get through the initial cliche storm and initially dickish main character, the game pretty much turns everything on it's head and I do believe that they pretty much put a bullet into the head of idea of destiny and the "Chosen One" trope itself.

 

[rabidmidget]

What kind of philosophy?

There's quite a few flash games that deal with all kinds of philosophy, and I'm not even going to bother mentioning Bioshock.

 

[liquidsolid]

Final Fantasy VI's character Kefka sees life as absurd and meaningless, his quest to destroy existence as a monument to non existence serves as the main conflict in the game. All of the characters find meaning in their lives and the final battle is one of Nihilism (Kefka) vs people who create their own meaning (the party)

Metal Gear Solid 2 is a postmodern interpretation of Metal Gear Solid games where the player takes on the role of Raiden in order to explore the nature of the players free will. If you've never played it I don't want to give anything away but the game explores philosophical concepts such as free will and questioning one's values.

Bioshock deals directly with Objectivism but this was already mentioned and explained in this thread.

 

[Heartcafe]

"I Have No Mouth and I Must Scream" is not exactly philosophical-based but there are a lot of ideas for it. I recommend watching the walkthrough instead of playing it though XD because can be confusing to work with (it's quite short on youtube.) It deals with man relationship with technology among other things and it's based on a short story too.

 

[Mouse One]

Some have already mentioned the more obvious titles: Bioshock (which I would say goes beyond Objectivism satire to an examination of free will), Braid, The Void, The Path, and the host of small indie 2D games (look up The Museum of Broken Memories sometime).

But I'll also add one that surprised me: Mass Effect 2. I remember the whole Mordin subplot, and dropping my jaw over some of the dialog. It's an reductio ad absurdum of Utilitarianism, and doesn't even take sides, for all of Mordin's tragic mixed feelings. Heck, the whole game is basically variations on the theme of parentage and its implications (down to the feelings of Reapers towards humans). Not what I was expecting from a Space Opera, and a very pleasant surprise it was.

 

[chaosyoshimage]

The World Ends With You was kind of philosophical, you know in that Neon Genesis Evangelion kind of way.

 

[thenamelessloser]

Star Wars: KOTOR 2.

I wouldn't call KOTOR 2 philosophical, as much as it was a deconstruction of the themes of the first game, Star Wars and role playing games in general. Still had an amazing story though.

As for contributing to the topic, I think Tales of the Abyss had some pretty interesting philosophical elements to it. If you can get through the initial cliche storm and initially dickish main character, the game pretty much turns everything on it's head and I do believe that they pretty much put a bullet into the head of idea of destiny and the "Chosen One" trope itself.

Ever heard of Nietzsche? I guess it is less noticeable if you don't have Kriea constantly in your party though. (I always have her in my party because of the XP bonus and her dialogue pretty much often comes accross as nietzsche wannabe, and at times better than htat.

 

[thenamelessloser]

Assuming we mean games that actually address philosophical concepts within the narrative, as opposed to games that you can simply apply plhilosophical debate to, there's a few games I think are well worth taking a look at. I'll list the actual points for each game in spoilers, so as to save space.

Spoiler: Deus Ex Invisible War

The original Deus Ex, whilst certainly touching on philosophical ideas, spent more time examining political ideas in the narrative, especially conspiracy ideas. Invisible War, on the other hand, reversed the balance. Conspiracy ideas form a part of the plot, but a lot more of the story is spent exploring philosophical ideas.

Basically, each faction has a philosophical outlook on life that informs their actions, and it's up to you the player to decide which faction, and thus which outlook, to side with. JC Denton, the protaganist from the first game, argues that human nature is fundamentally flawed and incomplete, and that if we want society to truly progress, we need to use our technology to transcend our current limitations for the good of all. The Omar, on the other hand, have a much more anarchistic, if not downright nihilistic take on a similar idea: humans must either utilise technology to evolve to the next level, thus capable of surviving the hostilities of practically any potential environment we encounter in the future, or they must die off as the earth is scorched and civilisation reduced to ashes. There are other factions who have their own arguments too, but I won't go into them here. Regardless of whatever flaws you may hear of the game, I would argue that it is well worth playing purely for the strength of philosophical writing. In one playthrough, I turned a street corner in Cairo to randomly discover a hologram teaching a crowd how the basic ideas of Chakra and other ideas of Eastern philosophy can be be equally applied to Western philosophy too, thus creating a belief structure that can apply to both Eastern and Western ideals. That's the sort of game this is. Oh, also there's this beauty of a discussion:

Spoiler: Final Fantasy VII and IX

First a caveat- the Final Fantasy games, being aimed at gamers of all ages from teenage up, don't necessarily deal with philosophical ideas with the same mature dialogue of something like Deus Ex. This also comes down in to the fact that every Final Fantasy game is translated from Japanese to English, so something is always bound to be lost. That said, both FFVII and IX deal with ideas that, even if they lack the eloquence of more adult games, still resonate and leave the gamer asking important questions.

Final Fantasy VII's most obvious theme is about how we interact with the environment. More specifically, it combines ideas of Shintoism and Buddhism with the cyberpunk trappings of writers like William Gibson to create a unique and compelling conflict. By racing science and technology forward at an unchecked speed, the game poses the question of not just how we pollute the natural world in ransacking it for our technological benefit, but how much we pollute ourselves too. The idea is that there is a lifestream which is behind the death and rebirth of every living thing on the planet, and by plundering that lifestream for our own short-term gain, we not only rob the planet of its natural beauty, we condemn ourselves to eventually live a ploouted, corrupted existence. It also covers other themes, namely the idea of memory and reality: How can we ever really be sure that our memories of the world actually reflect the reality of it? If the human mind is an imperfect construct, then to what extent can our memories be 'contaminated' by fantasies and delusions? The game asks some interesting questions, and it's on the subject of memories that I jump handily to the next suggestion, FF IX.

IX is a game that focuses less on the macrocosmic ideas of the balance and harmony of nature, and instead focuses more on the microcosmic issues of the human condition. Specifically, memory and death, and how the two are interlinked (pretentious sounding, I know, but bear with me). In FFIX, many of the characters have to confront the reality of death- namely that it is unavoidable, and will catch us all sooner or later. The confrontation comes from the fact that death is unknowable- no-one knows what lies on the other side of the veil dividing life and death. FFIX is therefore a meditation on what it means to live when the destintation is always the same: mysterious, unknowable, and forever. Different characters react to the same dilemma in different ways, and the concept of memories, and how we live on in the thoughts of others, becomes a crucial plot point. It's worth playing just for the amazing art direction by itself, but the story throws in some genuine tragedy, and some real brain-ticklers to keep the thinking gamer happy.

Spoiler: Knights Of The Old Republic II

Bioware created the first KotOR, and told a damn good, rousing tale in the traditional Star Wars mould, with the bonus points of allowing the player to be the bad guy. In my opinion, however, Obsidian really knocked the ball out of the park in terms of story when it came to their take on the Star Wars mythos. While not as overtly philosophical as something like Deus Ex, the game has a number of elements to its narrative that not only make it stand above its prequel, but above most RPGs in general. First, the game is a complete and utter skewering of the entire Star Wars mythos. If you're a Star Wars fan at all, and have ever been interested in the ideas and philosophies of the Star Wars universe, this game is worth playing just to see how brutally and effectively it deconstructs practically every element of the classic Star Wars formula, particularly through the comments of the character Kreia. She basically offers an alternative viewpoint that is absolutely withering in how it treats classic Star Wars tropes. The Force is no longer seen as a benevolant, all-encompassing life-force, but as a nefarious, omnipotent will that has an agenda all of its own, and forces all sentient life to live under its tyranny. The Jedi are no longer noble warrior-monks with virtuous temperements, but actual people, capable of jealousy, anger and spite, despite their training. The Sith too are thoroughly skewered: no longer are they portrayed as scheming machiavellian political players with thoughts of creating empires. Instead, they are humans who have been utterly consumed by the passions that help fuel their dark-side powers. They have no agenda or scheme more complicated than inflicting as much pain on others in order to alleviate the pain they feel themselves. In short, every classic aspect of Star Wars is given the Watchmen treatment, and it's worth playing it for that in itself.

Secondly, the game deconstructs not only SW tropes, but the conventions and cliches of the RPG genre itself. Things that are standard in every RPG, such as experience points and party members are brought up as plot points, and shown for the quite frankly terrifying concepts that they are.

Lastly, the game addresses issues of general morality, including the classic debates of whether it is better to help others or get them to help themselves, and the like. It's a long game, and there's a lot of narrative to take in, but I strongly recommend you play it just to see how a videogame can analyse the failings of its own medium and setting, as well as purely for the great characterisation and story.

Just have to say awesome post. =) What is really cool about FFIx though even with all the issues dealing with death, the main protagonist is probably the least angsty main protagonist of any Final Fantasy game. Great story and art but the random battles like many JRPGs drag it down.

BTW, i f you haven't yet I would recomend trying the game Nier. Seems like considering by what you say of KOTOR II, Final Fantasy 7, and Final Fantasy 9, I think it could really appeal to you. But I guess by telling you that it may make the game less awesome, I went into just expecting a generic action JRPG.

 

[AlternatePFG]

Star Wars: KOTOR 2.

I wouldn't call KOTOR 2 philosophical, as much as it was a deconstruction of the themes of the first game, Star Wars and role playing games in general. Still had an amazing story though.

As for contributing to the topic, I think Tales of the Abyss had some pretty interesting philosophical elements to it. If you can get through the initial cliche storm and initially dickish main character, the game pretty much turns everything on it's head and I do believe that they pretty much put a bullet into the head of idea of destiny and the "Chosen One" trope itself.

Ever heard of Nietzsche? I guess it is less noticeable if you don't have Kriea constantly in your party though. (I always have her in my party because of the XP bonus and her dialogue pretty much often comes accross as nietzsche wannabe, and at times better than htat.

Yup, she did come across as that.