Philosophy

[PSYCHOxDRAGON]

"If a tree falls in a forest, and there is no-one there to hear it, does it make a sound"

Let's talk people. Share your honest thoughts on the subject and don't just blow it off. It'll be interesting to see what a bit of debating can do for the forums.

 

[YouGetWhatsGiven]

Well if a tree falls in a "forest", it does make a sound.

 

[Hippobatman]

Yes it will, it'll still cause vibrations in the air which will make sound, even though noone's there.

 

[ElephantGuts]

Yes it will, it'll still cause vibrations in the air which will make sound, even though noone's there.

But what is sound if no one hears it? Maybe it only causes vibrations, but they don't become "sound" until they are heard. And truly, if no one hears it you can't really know. Maybe when there's a sound and absolutely no one is around, it makes some kind of wormhole that sucks the sound away? Obviously that probably doesn't happen, but the point is that if it's a situation that can't be proven, you can't be 100% sure.

 

[iain62a]

Rational thinking > Philosophy

Why can't rational thinking be part of philosophy?
But your right. I'll take hard evidence over metaphysical ramblings any day of the week.
Nicola Tesla > Friedrich Nietzsche


People are the only ones who can improve themselves. They can get all the self-help dvds in the world, and it'll do bugger all. The key to becoming a better person is self-discipline, and the drive to make something more of yourself.

Just a thought.

 

[PSYCHOxDRAGON]

and is it really possible for something to be 'greater' than anything else

 

[Shade Jackrabbit]

Yes it will, it'll still cause vibrations in the air which will make sound, even though noone's there.

But what is sound if no one hears it? Maybe it only causes vibrations, but they don't become "sound" until they are heard. And truly, if no one hears it you can't really know. Maybe when there's a sound and absolutely no one is around, it makes some kind of wormhole that sucks the sound away? Obviously that probably doesn't happen, but the point is that if it's a situation that can't be proven, you can't be 100% sure.

A similar argument came up in computer engineering today. Basically things are "true" when the masses of the trusted sources (i.e. scientists in these days) believe something. But they could all be wrong. I mean, why does gravity "work" as a theory? Because people believe it does. Maybe we're just all horribly wrong, and there's some other reason. But we're right because more people believe it to be true than not.

 

[gremily]

How did the tree fall down?

 

[ygetoff]

Yes it will, it'll still cause vibrations in the air which will make sound, even though noone's there.

But what is sound if no one hears it? Maybe it only causes vibrations, but they don't become "sound" until they are heard. And truly, if no one hears it you can't really know. Maybe when there's a sound and absolutely no one is around, it makes some kind of wormhole that sucks the sound away? Obviously that probably doesn't happen, but the point is that if it's a situation that can't be proven, you can't be 100% sure.

It's Schrodinger's Tree!
That sounds like an interesting game boss. "Run! It's Schrodinger's Tree!"

 

[Hippobatman]

How did the tree fall down?

I'm a lumberjack, and I'm ok! I sleep all night and I work all day!

Yes it will, it'll still cause vibrations in the air which will make sound, even though noone's there.

But what is sound if no one hears it? Maybe it only causes vibrations, but they don't become "sound" until they are heard. And truly, if no one hears it you can't really know. Maybe when there's a sound and absolutely no one is around, it makes some kind of wormhole that sucks the sound away? Obviously that probably doesn't happen, but the point is that if it's a situation that can't be proven, you can't be 100% sure.

Does the light in your fridge come off when you close the door? Yes it does.
It's logical that the tree will make sound, because based on all the other times a tree has fallen, the sound of a falling tree would occur, therefore, it's reasonable to assume that it would make a sound even if noone's there.

 

[Railu]

The only thing I find more ridiculous about sayings like that is when people say them that they think they are some philosophical genius. Wow, like no one has talked about this before.

And yes, they do make a sound, but no one cares.

 

[thehoff]

Who cares if it makes a noise? I'll just be glad it didn't land on me!

Seriously though I would say it still makes a sound. Put a camcorder up to record it or something so then no-one is technically around to hear it but can still be proved.

 

[jsd379]

By the that resonining if you are in a room alone, does anything behind you exists, since there is nothing to witness it? I would say yes, but since, it's philosophy there is probablyno right answer

 

[Ganado_Headshot]

You can philosiphize until your brain comes out but stop asking stupidly trivial questions, and yes it would make a noise. If the sun rose today but noone was around to see it, did it still happen? Umm yeah, yeah it did.

 

[Ursus Astrorum]

This should be simple. Let's get a tape recorder out in the middle of a forest, and cut a tree until it is dangerously close to falling. Then, evacuate the forest as soon as possible. Come back the next day and check the tape recorder. Surprise! They do make sounds.

But now, if we looked at this from a deeper perspective, where the tree is a "tree" and the forest a "forest", then it might not. A man can meet his end in the tide of millions and cause nary a ripple on the surface of civilization. It all depends on how you look at it.

 

[Shade Jackrabbit]

A similar argument came up in computer engineering today. Basically things are "true" when the masses of the trusted sources (i.e. scientists in these days) believe something. But they could all be wrong. I mean, why does gravity work? Because people believe it does. Maybe we're just all horribly wrong, and there's some other reason. But we're right because more people believe it to be true than not.

As much as I hate to disagree, last time I checked, scientists weren't sure how gravity worked, so your example is moot.

Err, meant gravity as a THEORY.

 

[Railu]

But what is sound if no one hears it? Maybe it only causes vibrations, but they don't become "sound" until they are heard.

No, it's not, sound is exactly that, vibrations in the air. It doesn't matter if anyone hears it or not.

edit: Actually, vibrations in anything. Solids, liquids, gas, etc.

Dictionary definition: http://www.bartleby.com/61/65/S0576500.html

A similar argument came up in computer engineering today. Basically things are "true" when the masses of the trusted sources (i.e. scientists in these days) believe something. But they could all be wrong. I mean, why does gravity work? Because people believe it does. Maybe we're just all horribly wrong, and there's some other reason. But we're right because more people believe it to be true than not.

As much as I hate to disagree, last time I checked, scientists weren't sure how gravity worked, so your example is moot.

That's why they are called theories. People who accept theories as facts are in for a surprise.

You have a hypothesis and then you add in a probability of error. The purpose of science is an ongoing study where you examine new evidence that comes into light, then re-evaluate your theory.

As far as gravity goes, everyone knows it exists. It's not a crazy notion that you can debate away with unwieldy rhetoric about perception. Objects with mass attract each other. We know this. What we don't know is the number of factors involved, only the ones we've examined to date.

To say that we don't know therefore, maybe it's an illusion, is about as asinine as me arguing with a traffic cop that I wasn't speeding, I was simply moving through life like dust in the wind. Even if you have a point, you're still going to get a ticket. That my friend, is called reality.

 

[Beffudled Sheep]

Something will always be around to hear it.

 

[theklng]

what is the sound of a falling tree?

what exactly is reason?

people (i.e. YOU) often get fooled that there is a reason behind everything, and that logic dominates the universe. logic was conceived by the human mind. what we see is the world we perceive as logic, but we don't know. we can't know.

we see things through the eyes of humans. we cannot tell how a bird sees the world or how possible aliens see the universe. we can't tell how a sound of a falling tree sounds for a wildcat or how a dog feels after a dog whistle has been used. we can only see that through reactions that we interpret.

the world is subjective through every being's perception. a true objective reality only exists in abstract thought. if one were to acquire it for our world, then that would truly be a power worthy of a god.