Physics Question! Is my understanding correct?

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The Selkie

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May 25, 2012
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Redingold said:
As for my credentials, I'm in my first year studying theoretical physics at the University of Manchester.
In a bizarre coincidence, I happen to be a second year mathematician at the University of Manchester. Small world, eh?
 

Redingold

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Mar 28, 2009
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The Selkie said:
Redingold said:
As for my credentials, I'm in my first year studying theoretical physics at the University of Manchester.
In a bizarre coincidence, I happen to be a second year mathematician at the University of Manchester. Small world, eh?
Huh, fancy that. Small world indeed.
 

AJvsRonin

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Nov 11, 2010
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Redingold said:
That value might sound absurd, but it's easy to confirm. h=E/mg, mg = 10000(ish), E is on the order of 10[sup]5[/sup], 10[sup]5[/sup]/10[sup]4[/sup] = 10, so that is the right order of magnitude.
Hmm actually I take that back you may be right. So I've found some physics calulators.
Using this one:
http://easycalculation.com/physics/classical-physics/force.php

Entering 1000kg mass, and 800,000 Newtons (800kJ/m) gives an accleration of 800m/s^2!!!
Thats extremely fast though and sounds weird to me.

Using this one:
http://www.calctool.org/CALC/phys/newtonian/projectile

And entering angle as 90 degrees with an initial velocity of 800m/s^2 under gravity = 1g. Gives a maximum height of over 65 kilometres!!! and travel time of 163 seconds.

I know this doesn't take into account air resistance but still!

This has gotta be wrong right? Is a newton not a force of 1 joule/m?
 

Twilight_guy

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Nov 24, 2008
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I think you also need to consider your audience and the applicability of this statement to the story. We're not all physicists. if you get it wrong and it sounds fancy to a non-physicists, they aren't going to care. Aside from that, you have to take this is relevance to the story. What is the purpose of this conversation? If its to show character 2 is smart or knows physics, do your best to make sure its accurate, though remember that if your audience doesn't know how it works it just needs to sound good. If the point is to just shoot the breeze and this isn't relevant to anything else, don't worry too much about it. Focus more on important story points then on whether the fact are correct in one unimportant piece of dialogue.

overall remember that being accurate isn't always important to the story. Plenty of professional writers and popular stories use techno-babble that makes no sense. It's not because they don't check facts but instead because its simply a way of progressing the story rather then the point of the story. Nobody cares how a flux capacitor works, we only care that it makes time travel happen and thus progresses the story.
 

Mossberg Shotty

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Jan 12, 2013
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Sorry, you lost me at the metric system. I saw a guy lift one end of a car a few centimeters once, if that helps. Probably not.
 

Do4600

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You don't have the biological facilities to release that energy in a direct way. What you have is a gallon of diesel fuel and you're putting it into a miniature hobby engine that has 0.6 horsepower which could run for days on that amount of fuel. What you would need would be equivalent to a battleship turbine which has 30,250 horsepower but gets about 32 feet per gallon(0.006 mpg). We evolved to manipulate objects about as long as our arms and about as heavy as a third our weight, it would be pointless for us to maintain the facilities to perform that kind of a feat of strength unless the environment pressured us to.
 

lechat

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Mossberg Shotty said:
Sorry, you lost me at the metric system. I saw a guy lift one end of a car a few centimeters once, if that helps. Probably not.
yeah stupid ppl using the metric system when discussing physics amirite?
 

Redingold

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Mar 28, 2009
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AJvsRonin said:
Redingold said:
That value might sound absurd, but it's easy to confirm. h=E/mg, mg = 10000(ish), E is on the order of 10[sup]5[/sup], 10[sup]5[/sup]/10[sup]4[/sup] = 10, so that is the right order of magnitude.
Hmm actually I take that back you may be right. So I've found some physics calulators.
Using this one:
http://easycalculation.com/physics/classical-physics/force.php

Entering 1000kg mass, and 800,000 Newtons (800kJ/m) gives an accleration of 800m/s^2!!!
Thats extremely fast though and sounds weird to me.

Using this one:
http://www.calctool.org/CALC/phys/newtonian/projectile

And entering angle as 90 degrees with an initial velocity of 800m/s^2 under gravity = 1g. Gives a maximum height of over 65 kilometres!!! and travel time of 163 seconds.

I know this doesn't take into account air resistance but still!

This has gotta be wrong right? Is a newton not a force of 1 joule/m?
You can't have an initial velocity of 800ms[sup]-2[/sup], because that's a measure of acceleration.

The force you need to apply has to be equal to the car's weight (Actually, it has to be greater than the car's weight, because if it was exactly equal the forces would balance and the car wouldn't move, but it only needs to be larger by a negligible amount). You don't have a force of 800kN, you're right that that would be extremely large. You only need to apply ~10000N of force to overcome gravity, and then you just multiply that force by the distance over which it acts to get the work done.

A newton is indeed a force of 1 joule per metre, and it takes 10000J to move the car upwards by one metre, because at 1m above the ground, it has a gravitational potential of 10000J. So the force you apply is 10000Jm[sup]-1[/sup]. Given that you have 800kJ available, that gives a maximum height of 800kJ/10000N = 80m.
 

Mossberg Shotty

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lechat said:
Mossberg Shotty said:
Sorry, you lost me at the metric system. I saw a guy lift one end of a car a few centimeters once, if that helps. Probably not.
yeah stupid ppl using the metric system when discussing physics amirite?
I know, where do these people get off? Convert that shit to feet and inches if you want my esteemed opinion...
 

AJvsRonin

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randomsix said:
An apple that weighs a kilogram would be really big. Like win-the-state-fair big
It's assuming an apple weighs 100g, 1/10th of a kilo, thus lifting 1,000kg 1m requires 10,000J.
 

randomsix

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Apr 20, 2009
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AJvsRonin said:
randomsix said:
An apple that weighs a kilogram would be really big. Like win-the-state-fair big
It's assuming an apple weighs 100g, 1/10th of a kilo, thus lifting 1,000kg 1m requires 10,000J.
The two pieces of your post are factually correct, except perhaps for the assertion that those numbers are used in the original argument. However, the second part doesn't follow from the first at all.
 

adamsaccount

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Jan 3, 2013
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Im glad i found this thread because ive got a story im writing too and i need to know if a crossbow would work in space
 

Darken12

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adamsaccount said:
Im glad i found this thread because ive got a story im writing too and i need to know if a crossbow would work in space
It would, but the bolt would go on forever (until it hit a planet, meteor or the like). It would also be perfectly quiet (there's not sound in space).
 

adamsaccount

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Darken12 said:
adamsaccount said:
Im glad i found this thread because ive got a story im writing too and i need to know if a crossbow would work in space
It would, but the bolt would go on forever (until it hit a planet, meteor or the like). It would also be perfectly quiet (there's not sound in space).
Sweet, would you need to put some sort of gyroscope into the bolts to make them fly straight though?
 

AJvsRonin

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adamsaccount said:
Sweet, would you need to put some sort of gyroscope into the bolts to make them fly straight though?
Possibly, as its air resistance that causes the bolt to fly straight, any slightly off centre momentum would go unchecked and the bolt would tumble end over end.
 

adamsaccount

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AJvsRonin said:
adamsaccount said:
Sweet, would you need to put some sort of gyroscope into the bolts to make them fly straight though?
Possibly, as its air resistance that causes the bolt to fly straight, any slightly off centre momentum would go unchecked and the bolt would tumble end over end.
Cheers, i guess the Wookies were onto something there
 

Darken12

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adamsaccount said:
Darken12 said:
adamsaccount said:
Im glad i found this thread because ive got a story im writing too and i need to know if a crossbow would work in space
It would, but the bolt would go on forever (until it hit a planet, meteor or the like). It would also be perfectly quiet (there's not sound in space).
Sweet, would you need to put some sort of gyroscope into the bolts to make them fly straight though?
Straight through what? Once you fire it, the bolt will travel in a straight line because there is no air to make it deviate course. It will also never slow down because there is no air friction. Also a gyroscope (or any other form of steering mechanism) would be more or less useless because steering needs to be done against something. You steer in one direction by pushing against the air/water/etc in the opposite one, so because there is nothing in space to steer against, you are hopeless to change course once fired.
 

adamsaccount

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Darken12 said:
adamsaccount said:
Darken12 said:
adamsaccount said:
Im glad i found this thread because ive got a story im writing too and i need to know if a crossbow would work in space
It would, but the bolt would go on forever (until it hit a planet, meteor or the like). It would also be perfectly quiet (there's not sound in space).
Sweet, would you need to put some sort of gyroscope into the bolts to make them fly straight though?
Straight through what? Once you fire it, the bolt will travel in a straight line because there is no air to make it deviate course. It will also never slow down because there is no air friction. Also a gyroscope (or any other form of steering mechanism) would be more or less useless because steering needs to be done against something. You steer in one direction by pushing against the air/water/etc in the opposite one, so because there is nothing in space to steer against, you are hopeless to change course once fired.
I imagined the bolt tumbling instead of the pointy end staying forward since theres no air for the arrows to direct it through, i guess you could shoot explosives or something like that though, i thought gyroscopic forces worked in space?
 

Darken12

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adamsaccount said:
I imagined the bolt tumbling instead of the pointy end staying forward since theres no air for the arrows to direct it through
No, it would tumble if there was a force that would push it backwards. Otherwise our rockets would tumble all the way to the moon and Mars instead of going in a straight line.