piracy and morality

[Wintermoot]

first of I KNOW the escapist,s stance on Piracy but this is a question about the morality:
is it bad to pirate games/movies that are out of print or only released limited or only in a certain region (like older NES titles or visual novels)

I personally think so if the developers wanted the money they should have re-printed/released it in the west it (or at least made a digital distribution option like Steam or GOG)
DO NOT GET ME WRONG! I don,t say you should pirate new games like the newest COD those kind of games are pretty much released world wide and always get released on steam (or origin)

look I,m not planning to pirate anything I just want to know everybody,s thoughts on it.

 

[Mr_Universal]

If you can´t Buy the game anywhere, then go freaking nuts couse they aint loosing money

 

[Britwarlord]

I see no problems with pirating older games that are pretty much off the market anyway, that doesn't hurt anyone.

Yeah I agree that you shouldn't pirate newer modern games which are still making money in significant numbers however.

 

[baconsarnie]

Funny how i was going through random xkcd comics and found this
http://xkcd.com/488
Which seems relevant for this

 

[Mudze]

Adding to that, if it's only available on retail, I'd say you -should- pirate it

 

[dickywebster]

If its games that you cant get cause of how old they are, then i dont see the problem, chances are a number of the companies have gone bust and as its probably the only way your likely to get to play some of them, its not like anyones losing money from it.
But id say only games before the ps1/n64 to be safe, as those 2 and the games after it reasonably easy to find, if you know where to look anyways.

 

[Zach of Fables]

It seems like these threads are going on all the time.

Look, I'm assuming that you have money enough to buy a console, which in turn means you have enough money to survive. Therefore, it's not a question of not being able to spend the money on the game, it's just not wanting to.

Stealing to survive when you don't have a choice may be illegal but it's not necessarily immoral. This is in no way similar. You don't need a shiny new video game, so there is no moral justification in my mind for stealing it. If you really can't afford it, you shouldn't be playing video games anyway.

 

[Richardplex]

I go by the Extra Credits definition; if you can't get it in the region your in, go nuts.

Also, when did the escapist reach a consensus on our view on piracy?

 

[Wintermoot]

It seems like these threads are going on all the time.

Look, I'm assuming that you have money enough to buy a console, which in turn means you have enough money to survive. Therefore, it's not a question of not being able to spend the money on the game, it's just not wanting to.

Stealing to survive when you don't have a choice may be illegal but it's not necessarily immoral. This is in no way similar. You don't need a shiny new video game, so there is no moral justification in my mind for stealing it. If you really can't afford it, you shouldn't be playing video games anyway.

what if the game is out of print? let,s say you own a PC game and time has taken it,s toll on the disc or the storage medium has become obsolete (like floppy discs) is it still bad to pirate the game in question? I,m not saying ALL old games are good for piracy for example Fallout get a reprint in the Fallout collection.

I go by the Extra Credits definition; if you can't get it in the region your in, go nuts.

Also, when did the escapist reach a consensus on our view on piracy?

admitting to piracy on the escapist is punishable by suspension/ban.

 

[sinterklaas]

If you can´t Buy the game anywhere, then go freaking nuts couse they aint loosing money

This.

How am I supposed to buy digital product X when it's being sold nowhere/not available in my country?

 

[ShadowStar42]

Legally it's still against the law, and I personally would say that morally it is still immoral although I acknowledge it's debatable. It's a matter of intellectual property, if I say invent a new gizmo, but lack the money to put it into production outside of my country that doesn't mean it's OK for you in another county to start making and distributing my gizmo. For one, it's not true that I lose no money because I may eventually choose to start distributing in your country and your distribution has already glutted the market. Secondly, as the inventor of the gizmo, I have the right to profit from its sale and my inability to sell it broadly doesn't strip me of that right.

 

[Zach of Fables]

what if the game is out of print? let,s say you own a PC game and time has taken it,s toll on the disc or the storage medium has become obsolete (like floppy discs) is it still bad to pirate the game in question? I,m not saying ALL old games are good for piracy for example Fallout get a reprint in the Fallout collection.

That doesn't seem unreasonable but I'll assume that you have tried stuff like Steam first right? If you really can't get it any other way that I suppose it would be justified.

 

[Wintermoot]

what if the game is out of print? let,s say you own a PC game and time has taken it,s toll on the disc or the storage medium has become obsolete (like floppy discs) is it still bad to pirate the game in question? I,m not saying ALL old games are good for piracy for example Fallout get a reprint in the Fallout collection.

That doesn't seem unreasonable but I'll assume that you have tried stuff like Steam first right? If you really can't get it any other way that I suppose it would be justified.

I already mentioned digital distribution in the opening post but it,s kinda stupid to pay for a game twice.

 

[BrassButtons]

I would say that it is still wrong to pirate a game that is not being sold in your region or that is out of print. You don't get to ignore the copyright holder's decisions simply because you dislike them.

That said, if you bought a game ages ago and the disc is worn out, and you can't buy another copy or exchange your worn out one, pirating is probably acceptable.

How am I supposed to buy digital product X when it's being sold nowhere/not available in my country?

Simple: you aren't. Doesn't mean you're allowed to just make your own copy of it, though. You are not entitled to video games.

 

[sinterklaas]

I would say that it is still wrong to pirate a game that is not being sold in your region or that is out of print. You don't get to ignore the copyright holder's decisions simply because you dislike them.

That said, if you bought a game ages ago and the disc is worn out, and you can't buy another copy or exchange your worn out one, pirating is probably acceptable.

How am I supposed to buy digital product X when it's being sold nowhere/not available in my country?

Simple: you aren't.

The copyright laws are there to make sure the rightfull owner gets his money (and recognition). If there is no way to buy a product, he won't get money and therefore it is not wrong to pirate that product.

It just baffles me that people think like you do. Digital products are completely different from physical products. You take a car and the car is gone. It's profit lost for the car store. You take game X and... game X is still there. If there is no way to buy the game, the developer doesn't lose any potential profit.

You cannot project your old views on digital media. It just doesn't work.

 

[BrassButtons]

The copyright laws are there to make sure the rightfull owner gets his money (and recognition). If there is no way to buy a product, he won't get money and therefore it is not wrong to pirate that product.

If the copyright holder is the rightful owner, then that means they get to decide what happens with the copyrighted material. That's what "ownership" entails. Why the law recognizes this ownership does not make that ownership invalid if the copyright holder chooses not to monetize the material.

Even if failure to monetize the material does void the copyright, that doesn't make piracy OK. Either the copyright would go to someone else who does monetize it (and that person, as the rightful owner, gets to decide in what way he goes about this, in what regions of the world), or it would enter public domain. If the first occurs, piracy ignores the decisions made by the rightful owner of the material. If the second occurs, piracy is impossible because you cannot pirate things that are in the public domain, as those materials have no rightful owner.

Basically, the concept of a "rightful owner" is incompatible with the concept that it is acceptable to pirate things, as piracy ignores the rightful owner's claim to ownership.

And yes, digital products are different than physical ones. That's why we're discussing the right to copy, and not other forms of property rights (of course, copyright extends to physical products as well, but you get my point).

 

[Wintermoot]

Legally it's still against the law, and I personally would say that morally it is still immoral although I acknowledge it's debatable. It's a matter of intellectual property, if I say invent a new gizmo, but lack the money to put it into production outside of my country that doesn't mean it's OK for you in another county to start making and distributing my gizmo. For one, it's not true that I lose no money because I may eventually choose to start distributing in your country and your distribution has already glutted the market. Secondly, as the inventor of the gizmo, I have the right to profit from its sale and my inability to sell it broadly doesn't strip me of that right.

let,s say you don,t want to release your gizmo internationally (for example ZUN doesn't want to internationally release the Touhou games because he thinks it,s to hard for the west)