Piracy, simply put.

[Treblaine]

I don't even like the term Piracy as look what you are associated with:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piracy

Oh, so "Copyright Violation" may not be theft, but instead it is given the same label as rapists and murderers of the high seas!

So from now on I will be calling it Copyright Violation Called Piracy or so-called-piracy as simply using the term piracy is either an abuse of the English language or belittling the suffering of real people at the hands of the most violent criminals.

 

[IamLEAM1983]

Has anyone said yet that you really don't need any of these luxuries and can live without them until you can afford them?

So what you can't play a new game, big whoop they never last longer then a few hours anymore.

Oh no you didn't see that new movie, probably sucked anyway.

Seriously, if you can't afford to get a game/movie and you must pirate it...MAYBE you should get a fucking job instead of trying to get it illegally? "Oh my budget is tight" Uhm, work?

That's assuming every pirate does it because of tight purse strings. Plenty of people pirate because of a cheapskate attitude as gamers. Sometimes, I even agree with them. Not everything warrants a full sixty bucks, not every budget game is even deserving of my thirty bucks. I've stopped pirating years ago, but that doesn't mean I've stopped being choosy. Games just aren't trashy airport paperbacks you toss away after a single reading; they're products made to be consumed several times, ideally. I'd rather make sure my investment will have sufficient returns in terms of enjoyment, first.

I'm making enough money to pretty much afford anything I want, within reason, and my job is fun enough that I don't see myself quitting anytime soon. If I still bothered with Torrents and dodgy sources for cracks, I'd be bothering with them because some titles interest me, but not enough to splurge on them. Comfortable or not, I sure as Heck ain't rich.

As is, though, I prefer to bite the bullet and purchase whatever doesn't come with a demo. Walking the straight-and-narrow is fairly limiting and sometimes leads to nasty surprises, whereas pirates don't cry over shit games - they just delete the game's .ISO file, uninstall it and forget they even played it.

I certainly wish I could do that with Audiosurf, for instance. But nope - it's in my Steam library, forever greyed out and reminding me that I once was hyped as all Hell for this thing.

 

[Insideout Ink Demon]

my weekly ZP visit.

So, Escapist it on the Piracy Cycle.
See you all next week when its Feminism, White Knights or heaven forbid; the Rape topic has become a cycle.

Toodles

 

[trophykiller]

Have you ever actually made a movie? No? Then you have no right to talk. It takes a great deal of effort to create a feature-length film, and for you to enjoy the benefits of their work without giving back makes you a parasite to society.

If you work an 8-hour day, and your boss doesn't pay you for it, you sue him. Same as if you cram 100+ hours into making a movie, and people watch it without paying.

The only reason you don't take issue is because it isn't happening to you. Good day sir.

P.S. As a movie director who opposes SOPA and bills like it, I am disappointed at the behaviors of people like the creator of this thread. If I make a film that bombs in sales, I may never work again.

 

[Naeo]

Instead of the two pages I typed out, let's just do the tl;dr.

Piracy is, simply put, wrong. It's a personal insult to the content creators, telling them that the hundreds or thousands of hours they put into creating this content are worth absolutely nothing and they don't deserve to see compensation for it. It's a sign of immaturity and poor impulse control and/or total disregard for the rule of law: you don't get to pick and choose what laws to follow based on personal convenience or personal preference. Trying to argue that you do is simply mind-numbing fucking stupidity. If a law is actively limiting your freedoms--which piracy laws in no way do, because games and music and such are luxuries, not necessities, so you have no inherent right to them whatsoever unless you yourself create them--you have every right to oppose it and break it, but even then, you don't get to ***** about the consequences, because you knew them before breaking the law. You don't get to say "I don't like this law, so I won't follow it." Piracy removes incentive--believe it or not, sales are actually (gasp!) related to how much a content creator gets paid. Whether it's an advance in anticipation of how big the sales will be or simple royalties, it all depends on how much money will be made. Pirating something lowers that number and gives creators much less incentive to make stuff.

And a general refutation to a commonly-thrown around point. The "I wouldn't have bought it anyways" is absolutely horseshit as an argument. That doesn't entitle you to get a free copy of anything, digital, tangible, or otherwise. And no, you probably wouldn't have bought it anyways, but that's because you can pirate it for free. If you couldn't pirate it, you very likely would have bought it, either now or once the price has dropped. That argument seems to rely very heavily on circular logic--"because there is piracy as an option, I will not pay for this, because I was not going to pay for it anyways because I can get it for free!" Piracy justifying piracy. Bullshit, failure logic.

And can we please, please, please stop pretending that people pirate for some sort of weird moral purpose? That it's "because fuck the establishment" or whatever? Overwhelmingly, it's just because it's cheaper and easier. If people would just up and admit "I don't want to pay X dollars for this, so I get it for free," then piracy discussions would be much more productive and probably much less flame-batey than the current attempts to morally justify the action or try to give it the high ground.

A comment on used game sales: the only reason I don't condemn them is because they're perfectly and absolutely legal. If they ever become illegal, then yes, they will be on the same page as piracy. Devs see nothing from the sale, it's a way of getting a copy of the content without compensating the creators, etc. The only redeeming factors are "you still like it enough to pay for it," but that doesn't mean much when people sank millions into production, and that it keeps physical brick-and-mortar game stores afloat, but in the era of digital distribution, they're becoming fast irrelevant anyways.

And this is where I leave this topic because nothing good can come of it.

 

[DigitalSushi]

Piracy's not stealing, because nothing is taken. They never had my money. They make the case they'd gotten it without piracy, but since I've probably streamed more movies than my cumulative net worth, that argument is defeated by simple math.

Your taking something that your not entitled to, you can't walk past a Ferrari and copy it, same goes with games, music and movies

My landlord is probably not going to like the idea of me re-prioritizing my expenditures to the purchase of entertainment products.

Your landlord is going to be confused the day you can copy your rented flat he owns and drop a copy next to his while you live there not paying him a dime.

People don't get critizised for waiting a year until the retail price drops to $10. Well, they might as well download the game right away and mail the dev $10. Personal asketicism during one's time of abstinence isn't helping their employees pay the rent anyway.

When you download movies do you send the makers money?, I doubt you do, although it would be good to clear that up

Buy a game second hand - you might as well pirate it. "But people have always sold off things and bought used things." Yes. This truth still doesn't help the devs pay the rent.
A clean conscience isn't valid currency in the free market economy.

But someone did buy the game first hand, saying the gaming industry is a free market economy and stating piracy is just as good as second hand sales means you are either dissalusioned or you don't understand that with second hand buyers, there was a first hand buyer to pay the game dev, with piracy, there is none.

I don't hoard money. Can't. I spend all my income. Every month. I'm doing my part. Why should I not get stuff free when it doesn't hurt no-one? Me downloading a CD doesn't diminish the record company's ability to sell it to somebody else.

Yes it fucking well does, you pirating means that when I as a legit user buys Far Cry 3 I have to put up with DRM bullshit, having to be constantly online all the time and when the servers go down I then can't play the game I love.

Thanks for that, you trying to get stuff for free has cost us legit users fun, I will happily pay 60 dollars for a game, and I have on Steam, but hackers and pirates like yourself ruin the experience.

Let's say I need to ride the bus home. I only have five dollars on me. I can't pay more. But five dollars is only gonna get me within four blocks. The bus is empty, or at least empty enough, so I don't take nobody's seat. Who is helped by me getting off the bus to walk the rest? (apart from my health)
The bus is going there anyway, I don't diminish any paying customer's ability use it.
What kind of twisted Christian guilt morality makes one assume it is wrong to just ride the bus until home?

Your Free Market Economy argument from earlier falls flat on its face, public transport and the payment there of has nothing to do with a Free Market Economy, one is public subsidies while the other is a capitalistic venture risk. The risk being you downloading the software.

What does that conscience say when you proudly buy a video game full price like a good patriot, and then play it on the X-Box that is only so cheap because some legal slave in China assembled it for 2 bucks a day, while you're wearing the T-Shirt that some Indonesian kid sowed instead of going to school?

Aren't we accustomed to screwing people over by now?

I don't own anything made by Chinese political slaves as far as I know, I have a PS3, is that made in sweatshops?

 

[Jake0fTrades]

The problem is that there are plenty of people who are capable of paying for these things fairly but instead opt to download them for free because it's easier.

 

[Bocaj2000]

We have libraries, right? What is a library? It's a place where you can read books for free. Once you are done, you can return it, but you can check it out forever if you wish.

What is piracy? It is an action where people can play games for free. Once you're done you can delete it from your computer. If not, you can keep it on your computer forever.

Also, what is the difference between copying a game from a website (which is essentially a ripped DVD) and asking your friend for a burned CD. Or even better, recording movies off of the TV via a blank vhs/dvd. Getting free media has been around since recording devices were invented. The ONLY difference is that this time, developers convinced the public that the money is going to the artists (which it's not. The artists get their salary while working on the game, not after).

Long story short, it's only illegal because businessmen tell you it is. Media is for everyone, not just the rich.

 

[trophykiller]

Wow, a day and already 5 pages. Nice troll work.

To put piracy simply requires a lot less text though.

Piracy: Is illegal, and like many other crimes, people do it anyway. There will always be an excuse provided, and whatever particular excuse it is can simply be replaced with 'X' as they are all utterly irrelevant.

Ex: "I pirate software because of X", "I steal cars because of X", " I held up that 711 and shot the 17 year old clerk because of X"

X can be anything, but mostly it revolves around a few core elements.

1. The person committing the crime says they need it more than the other.

or

2. They say they can't afford it through legal means/need it to get something else legally.

or

3. They say the other party deserves to have this done because they're rich(or just have more than the offender)

Sometimes it sounds like they have a legitimate point, they are passionate and unflinching in their conviction. They don't, don't get suckered in. Few people want to see themselves as a bad person, so they will jump through all sorts of mental hoops to justify their actions so they can get what they want without them actually having to work through normal means.

You are better off avoiding anyone who makes those justification themed statements, as anyone who makes them is an utterly selfish and stupid individual. Not to mention the lacking in the character department to just own their actions.

If everyone used this logic, there would be no crime.

 

[Something Amyss]

I suppose massive profits is a hyperbole, but the top pirated games are consistently selling very well, and a lot of companies are still making profits.

And, like I said, there's no definitive answer as to why a couple companies are doing bad. However, if I were to guess with Ubisoft, I'd say "pissing off your fanbase" and "poor business decisions" may be among the problems. It's hard to say what causes things when there are so many contributing elements.

In other words, we still can't really conclude (or preclude) piracy.

While piracy isn't technically stealing (apprehending a physical copy and depriving the producer of their product without compensating them for it), it's stealing in the sense that you're using a product somebody has spent hard earned money to make and not compensating them for it. People using their product without paying for it is bad for developers who spent money to make the game, and aren't receiving something for you using it. Could it be any simpler than that?

That's still not stealing. I don't get what's so wrong with attacking it on the merits, rather than attacking it based on some illusory tie to theft. It's not stealing "in the sense" that you're enjoying someone's work for free. It's copyright infringement, selfishness, and even kind of dickishness, and generally reeks of entitlement. It's many, many things. It is not stealing. Could it be any simpler than that?

 

[Samus Aran but a man]

Not sure if trolling or just stupid...

This is my "simply put" stance on piracy. It's stealing and it's wrong, but the temptation is too great and there are no consequences to be afraid of.

 

[Timothy Callil]

im in aus. games cost 2x they do in us, games are banned/censored.

that's justification for piracy, imo. anything wrong with this?

 

[Samus Aran but a man]

Your logic is quite absurd.

This is my "simply put" stance on piracy. It's copyright infringement and it's wrong, but the temptation is too great and there are no consequences to be afraid of.

 

[WaysideMaze]

I stole these glasses but i bought this shirt. But the glasses werent "free" because i paid for the shirt.
Thats the logic i assume youre using?

Yes. It's different in the world of finite physical things, because there, money is used as a distribution tool. But it applies in the world of virtual goods, where only the original cost money to produce, but each copy is for free.

I don't even know how to counter this level of stupid...
Money is also used as a 'distribution tool' in the virtual world aswell. How do you think legal digital distribution works?
Do you think the devs puts their creation on steam and say 'LOL YOU PC GUYS CAN HAVE IT FOR FREE! THEY'RE ONLY COPIES, THEY DON'T COST ME ANYTHING!'
No, because the content cost the creator time and money. If you wish to access their content, then they deserve payment for their endeavors. So pay them.

But you DONT give back when you pirate. You give back elsewhere.

Exactly.

You seem to misunderstand. He isn't agreeing with you here.
When he says 'you give back elsewhere' there's no subtext meaning 'and that money makes it's way back to the guys you stole the other shit from!'
It was poor wording on biscuits part, given who he's dealing with.

Way to ignore my arguements about how me paying for everything is giving back more than you paying for some things.

Just like you ignored the argument that I had given all I could.

How is that even an argument?
'You have to understand officer, I had to rob that liquor store! You see, I've spent all my money this month and I need to buy more luxury items!'
Video games are a luxury. Movies are a luxury. A Bugatti Veyron is a luxury. They are not a right. If you cannot afford that luxury, you cannot take it for free.

Lemme change this for you then. You give nothing back in the instances where you pirate The creator gets NOTHING.

But somebody else does.

Somebody else does what? Gives back?
Yes, they give back for their copy. The creator gets nothing for your copy.
This is the point people are trying to make to you.
Their contributions do not account for your theft.

Im saying you deserve what you buy and earn. Which i do. If you earn more than me you deserve more than me.

Well, in my philosophy, buying is not equal to earning. And earning is not equal to deserving.

Well when you run your own country where you are king and everything revolves around you, you go right ahead and write down your philosophy as law.
I suppose you are right on one point, buying isn't equal to earning. Some people choose to spend less than they earn. In which case buying<earning. But buying should never exceed earning. Games, movies etc are not such a necessity that you can't go without them. Save up, buy them when you can afford them.

You dont pay for some things. Thats wrong. That damages the economy.

No. If I were to take my money away from HP and give it to Valve, the economy would still be the same. THAT IS THE POINT.

Well, yeah the economy would be the same, but HP would be worse off if you didn't give them the product you bought back.
And in any case, we aren't talking about you taking money from one company and giving to another. We are talking about you taking things (and yes, even the digital copy of a game is a 'thing') from the company and giving nothing in return. And like biscuit said, this hurts the economy. You are taking from it, and putting nothing back.

It doesnt mean you contribute extra special

I never said that.

maybe not but you seem to vehemently believe it.

This isnt even covering the rights of the creator of the work you are taking against their will.

Frankly, if they don't want their creation consumed, they should not publish it.

But they do want their creation consumed. They just want some compensation for the time and money they spent creating it.

And piracy gives nothing back. Thats just true.

Sure. But me not buying AND not pirating isn't giving back anything either.

Right, so do that instead then, instead of taking without giving.

You seem to be under this misguided illusion that since you spend all the money you have it entitles you to take other things for free and that somehow this has no negative affect on any part.

Let's assume that a person has £2000 a year to spend on luxury items. Not food, housing, gas, electric etc. Just entertainment.
If they spend all of that £2k on video games, this does not entitle them to take an extra £500 because they've already spent the rest of their money. If you have taken £2500 but only have £2000 to spend, explain how that has no negative impact anywhere? Sure, £500 ain't alot, but let's multiply it by 100 people who share your views. Now it's £50,000. A lot to me and you, but still, the big publishers can afford that right? It's nothing to them.
Except that games like The Witcher were pirated roughly 4.5million times [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/114429-The-Witcher-2-Pirated-Roughly-4-5-Million-Times-Says-Dev]. That is a lot of lost money for both the developer and the economy. And it is incredibly difficult to justify these numbers by saying 'Yeah but I just couldn't afford it!'

If you cannot afford a luxury, wait until you can.

NOTE: Please don't reply to this if you're only going to comment on how I repeatedly referred to piracy as theft when it's actually blah blah blah. I don't care.
It's pretty much agreed that it's a grey area, and whether or not it should be technically classed as theft or counterfeiting etc is not the point of my argument.

 

[Magnicon]

As always a thread filled with ignorance. If you are against piracy, do some research, because you are wrong. I'll help get you started.

http://www.joystiq.com/2011/07/05/report-game-industry-worth-74-billion-in-2011/

http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/118/1184550p1.html

http://games.ign.com/articles/121/1213357p1.html

http://games.slashdot.org/story/11/02/17/0526200/valve-beats-google-apple-for-profits-per-employee

http://torrentfreak.com/top-10-most-pirated-movies-of-all-time-111012/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aCkX0KcNwrI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wCk9Cheiqqg

http://thenextweb.com/2008/12/09/author-paulo-coelho-supports-piracy-share-to-get-revenue/

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/114537-File-sharing-Remains-Legal-In-Switzerland

Bathesda Net income 450 million
Vivendi (ActivisionBlizzard) Profit ?2.198 billion (2010)
EA Net income US$-677 million (FY 2010)
Ubisoft Net income ?89.8 million (2010) <- Worst DRM offenders and biggest piracy complainers have noticeably lower number.

 

[Phlakes]

Wow, a day and already 5 pages. Nice troll work.

To put piracy simply requires a lot less text though.

Piracy: Is illegal, and like many other crimes, people do it anyway. There will always be an excuse provided, and whatever particular excuse it is can simply be replaced with 'X' as they are all utterly irrelevant.

Ex: "I pirate software because of X", "I steal cars because of X", " I held up that 711 and shot the 17 year old clerk because of X"

X can be anything, but mostly it revolves around a few core elements.

1. The person committing the crime says they need it more than the other.

or

2. They say they can't afford it through legal means/need it to get something else legally.

or

3. They say the other party deserves to have this done because they're rich(or just have more than the offender)

Sometimes it sounds like they have a legitimate point, they are passionate and unflinching in their conviction. They don't, don't get suckered in. Few people want to see themselves as a bad person, so they will jump through all sorts of mental hoops to justify their actions so they can get what they want without them actually having to work through normal means.

You are better off avoiding anyone who makes those justification themed statements, as anyone who makes them is an utterly selfish and stupid individual. Not to mention the lacking in the character department to just own their actions.

Thank you. The major problem with piracy is that it's never enforced. People do it because they know the can get away with it. If pirates were actually punished, I guarantee a huge fraction of them would stop. Like I said earlier, if shoplifting was never punished, people would be trying to justify that too, probably with the same reasons. Groceries are overpriced, the stores are just owned by huge corrupt corporations and don't deserve my money, etc.

Pirates are criminals. There's no way of getting around that. Whatever your reason, you're breaking the law, and while we all know rebellion is psychologically gratifying to these kinds of people, as the user below me put it, they're

greedy, lazy, self-entitled, freeloading cuntwads who don't deserve your time of day.

.

As always a thread filled with ignorance. If you are against piracy, do some research, because you are wrong. I'll help get you started.

Bathesda Net income 450 million
Vivendi (ActivisionBlizzard) Profit ?2.198 billion (2010)
EA Net income US$-677 million (FY 2010)
Ubisoft Net income ?89.8 million (2010) <- Worst DRM offenders and biggest piracy complainers have noticeably lower number.

...Publishers make money, so people against piracy are wrong? Obviously I'm missing something here.