Pirated or Preowned?

[The Iron Ninja]

Pirates! Oh wait... those kind of pirates.

I would say that Piracy is worse than pre-owned, at least with pre-owned the makers of the game gain a profit from the original sale, and it's not like games stores are making new copies to sell instead of getting new stock.

 

[hamster mk 4]

the issue is not about developers getting the money, it is simply about copyright protection. current copyright protection laws do not extend into the realm of used or second hand content so therefore no copyright law is being broken.
quote]

I thought that was the issue. Not what we feel about piracy (which has been discussed to death on this forum), but what we feel about obtaining a game in a legal way that does not benefit the original creators. Before this thread I didn't think much of it. I have always held a great deal of respect for developers, and aspire to be one. I stopped pirating games not because I was worried about the legal ramifications but because I started learning about the amount of work that goes into making one of these things. I would rather not pay full price, but when I shell out my money I want some of that if not most of it to go to the people who made the game. In this light I would rather pay for an older game through digital distribution than buy used. At least through digital distribution there is a greater chance the original makers get a cut of the profit.

 

[PhoenixFlame]

I'd like to see proof that at least some profit does not go back to the developer of said game if it is bought preowned. It sounds like speculation to me right now, as I imagine most store and retail chains have negotiated some kind of percentage kickback to the developer for selling games, even used ones. I don't see the difference between selling a new copy of the game vs. a pre-owned one, as it applies to who is taking a cut of the pie.

Piracy, however, circumvents the whole system as opposed to one aspect of it. You don't pay the retail outlet, you don't give your cash to be divvied up to go to the developer, you just get the game. It's still illegal, so I don't get how it is equivalent to pre-owned sales or how it is a justification for piracy.

That being said, at this point in the digital age, companies have to assume some piracy is going to exist and that they won't be able to clamp down on everyone except the larger distributors and people popping up on the radar. The product's profit margin eneds to take this into consideration as well and still make a product that people will want to buy. There are always going to be people like the OP who think the retail price is too much to pay for new games, and who will find other avenues. The key is to make sure the person who is discerning with their cash but still wants to play a good game legally wants to buy the product.

 

[Davydd Grimm]

I wouldn't buy Jeff Buckley's Grace as any royalties can't go beyond the grave, so I just torrent his discography and enjoy his entire works for nothing.

I'm sure Michael Tighe, Mick Grondahl, Matt Johnson, possibly even Leonard Cohen would be thrilled to read that.

Oh, yeah. Hallo, everyone. New and that. Be gentle.

 

[Leon P]

PC gamers don't really have an excuse for either,

new PC games are exceptionally cheap Only yesterday I saw Bioshock for £8 new!
also no where sells 2nd Hand pre-owned PC games anymore cept maybe E-bay?

If you can't afford a game don't ***** because your "poor" wait until you have enough money
and buy it! I cant afford Call of duty 4 for PC ATM But that doesn't give me the right to pirate it now does it? and I simply wouldn't trust a 2nd hand game due to problems with CD keys and Registry of other online accounts


you all ***** and moan when people throw phrases around like "PC gaming is dying"
but to be more or less true it is. ignorant selfish people aren't willing to fork out £20 for a game, I know when Bioshock came out, out of 10 people only 2 Bought it and that includes me.

even tho they can afford £800 $1000 PC's?
£200 for a new graphic card?
£150 for a new CPU?

BUT £50 FOR A GAME TO MUCH FOR YOU?
screw that

 

[Ixus Illwrath]

BUT £50 FOR A GAME TO MUCH FOR YOU?
screw that

Dude, that's like $100, you're getting hosed hardcore

 

[SaintWaldo]

Buying used is covered by what's known as the first sale doctrine. If the item is a legitimate product legitimately acquired, the law states that the purchaser has rights of resale on that physical copy. This is why you shouldn't be so gung-ho about the all-digital-download future, kids. The first sale doctrine is clear only when there is a physical object involved.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_sale_doctrine

Buying used does not remove money from the developers. For it to be used, it had to be PURCHASED the first time. Which means money went to the developers. The people who buy used are stating, in the market, that they will tolerate the defects and perils of a used market to capture value. If developers don't like that, they need to investigate legitimate economic means to counter it, like lowering prices or increasing production runs. For some, this can and will never happen. The same situation exists for painters who see (if they are lucky to still be alive) their work passed on for many multiples of what they may (if they are lucky) have charged for the initial sale. And sculptors. And car manufacturers. Basically, anyone who produced a solid good for sale. I have zero sympathy for someone crying about physical reality.

Piracy, on the other hand, violates just about every portion of the first sale doctrine by transferring ownership of non-legitimate goods. The format of the goods makes no difference to this argument. I have zero sympathy for pirate's justifications for what they do. They all sound exactly like the rationalizations of every petty criminal, ever.

I have more to say, but I'll stop here to remain on topic.

 

[pigeon_of_doom]

Ok, I'll admit that buying pre owned does still feed money back into the games retail industry and that more people would have bought the game along the line, but buying it still gives no money to the developer. Very good point on the viability of digital distributation services though as with older games the rights must still be bought so it seems fair.

I am, as some on this thread have said, a petty criminal. Any moral justification comes second to me being able to pick up games on the release date for a few hours of torrenting. I was just interested in what ways the second hand industry is seen as superior.

By the way Leon P, a gaming PC is a one off investment (usually at a lower price than which you stated it as). Frittering away money on games when it could be spent on bills, nights out or household goods could seem irrational. Sure, I could save up but I'd rather not have the price of living infringe on my access to entertainment. Also I am not sure this is fact - but when game prices go down by the extent that you mentioned, I am sure the devs get next to nothing from these sales.

 

[Davydd Grimm]

Sure, I could save up but I'd rather not have the price of living infringe on my access to entertainment.

Somewhat petulant, dear pigeon. You realise people thinking this way has caused the current credit crunch siuation we face? You can't have something for nothing, bud, not without consequences.

 

[Terramax]

Thing is, if games were cheap enough, or members of the industry weren't so greedy, maybe we wouldn't have to resort to buying games second hand or pirated anyway?

I mean, I'm looking into buying a PS3, and was looking on Amazon.co.uk for PS3 games new. Some of them are going for £15 new now(!)

Maybe these sellers aren't getting any profit selling them that cheap, but if they are, it makes you think, would there be much piracy if games were all £10-20 from their first release?

I know people would argue about the costs of making games these days, and perhaps they need them at such a price, but I also know countries like here in the UK we pay a heck of a lot more than other countries for most things anyway due to tax, etc.

 

[BallPtPenTheif]

What about the sovereignty of my hard drive? (for the sake of arguement)

Those are my ones and zeros in that machine and however I wish to organize them is my business. When the day comes that both brain matter and hard drive space are equally compatable as a memory storage space (see Johnny Neumonic) then all of you will see the detriment of copyright protection as its rights will extend to your internal memory bank.

 

[Orlana]

BUT £50 FOR A GAME TO MUCH FOR YOU?
screw that

Dude, that's like $100, you're getting hosed hardcore

Someone doesn't know how little the American dollar is worth compared to other countries. Before Minimum wage in the states got its gradual increases over the last two Julys (and its final raise in July 09), it was $5.15 an hour. From what I recall, and Brits correct me if I'm wrong, minimum wage in the UK is about £5. That's what my significant other was making a few years ago when he was working at a pub. £5 is roughly $10. Games in the state run roughly $50 a piece. $5 is to $50 as £5 is to £50....or something like that.

No one's getting hosed, they pay the same price we do.

 

[ElArabDeMagnifico]

I only pirate games that aren't being sold on Steam.

And for some reason, the ones that aren't on Steam tend to almost always be awful anyway.

Aww, no love for direct2drive? I just recently discovered it's awesomeness for non-steam titles, it's like steam only I don't think it has auto updates.

Alright I'm quoting myself, but I've been recently looking at the Warcry store escapist has, and it also has quite an impressive selection, maybe one day you'll see me with that "Warcry contributor" badge.

Right now though, schoolbooks are a priority, and Mercs 2 (thanks to Clear Sky being delayed I can have time to play this)

 

[Ixus Illwrath]

What about the sovereignty of my hard drive? (for the sake of arguement)

Those are my ones and zeros in that machine and however I wish to organize them is my business. When the day comes that both brain matter and hard drive space are equally compatable as a memory storage space (see Johnny Neumonic) then all of you will see the detriment of copyright protection as its rights will extend to your internal memory bank.

That's the fundamental argument. If I took a photo of the Mona Lisa, enlarged it, and hung it on my wall, what am I in violation of? Nothing at all.

The minute you put a price on Information that people are capable of sharing, you've just created a moral dilemma. Now you've allowed the haves to decide what they own and the have nots lining up paying them.

Anti-piracy lobbying is just financial censorship. If the way you set up profiting from intellectual property MAKES the artist starve when piracy is abound, maybe it's time to rebuild your business model.

There's a very large community of people who create things that share that opinion, and their voice also counts.

If you want to continue to survive in the CURRENT state of affairs, take notice of what WoW has done. That's a virtually impossible game to pirate. CoD4, TF2... these games make the player desire the real-intelligence foes they play online. And they all make as much money as they ever will because the nature of the game isn't something you can bypass with CD keys and cracks.

The industry can make as much DRM as they want, they can create every safeguard imaginable while fighting their invincible foe. Maybe they should look into the past, I don't remember any bootlegged NES cartridges floating around, being sold at the local 7-11.