Pirates, and how the US dealt with them.

[spideymik3y]

it was a great short term victory but remember that it was navy seals vs some thugs on the sea the only thing going to stop this stuff i some kind diplomacy

 

[Nmil-ek]

The somalian's lack of eyepatches and peg legs severley shattered my illusion, they are mere water thugs on dingies not real pirates I say.

 

[Acaroid]

Buy what I have been reading the best way America can deal with the pirates is stop thinking they can take what they want from the world.

America's fishing industry (apparently, again just what I have read) is muscling in on more and more places around the world forcing these less well off people to turn to piracy because their jobs have been lost.

Im not sure how accurate that is, but it comes under the catagory, lets solve the cause of the problem, instead of dealing with its effects.

 

[clem]

Buy what I have been reading the best way America can deal with the pirates is stop thinking they can take what they want from the world.

America's fishing industry (apparently, again just what I have read) is muscling in on more and more places around the world forcing these less well off people to turn to piracy because their jobs have been lost.

Im not sure how accurate that is, but it comes under the catagory, lets solve the cause of the problem, instead of dealing with its effects.

Nonetheless, Piracy=bad for merchant shipping. The problem has been long-lived around coastal Africa (and Indonesia) at different times, and seems perpetually linked to highly unstable and usually chaotic politics local to the pirate's home ports.

For hundreds of years it was North Africa: "Robinson Crusoe" 17th c., Samuel Pepys diary (17th-18th c.), or the U.S. Marine Corps hymn, which mentions "the shores of Tripoli" referring to the First Barbary War in the 19th c. all refer to rampant piracy.

That largely ended in North Africa with stable, centralized governments that wanted to operate on the world political stage in the 20th century.

So now it's the East coast of Africa. As mentioned previously, we can keep killing pirates and increase the security of the shipping lanes (I'm in favor of both) but we also have to work toward the long-term solutions of creating stable, and preferably populist (if not democratic) government in Somalia.

Edited:
Yes, most of Africa's problems are the legacy of bad European colonial practices, but that doesn't mean that other economically influential countries have the luxury of not working to stabilize and humanize the politics of the region.

 

[letsnoobtehpwns]

I think we should have killed all of them the second we found them. Oh well, the captain is safe and the pirates are dead, FUCK YEAH!!!

 

[Gestapo Hunter]

The only way to effectively deal with pirates is to kill them. Anything else encourages further attacks.

Yes, that's unquestionably the best way to deal with a problem, you get rid of it. /Sarcasm

you obviously have never played the total war series

so i take it you hit the exterminate button for every conquered city? anyway,isnt there a law in the navy that allows the captain to hand pirates on the side of his boats?

 

[Delicious]

Kill em. Let's face it, in a country like Somalia, they are probably better off dead.

 

[Gruthar]

The larger problem is Somalia is a failed state, and doesn't really have a government. The pirates are largely fishermen who've lost their livelihood thanks to commercial overfishing and have gradually turned to a life of crime. If what I've read is correct, these guys started out by boarding fishing trawlers and demanding compensation, and it has escalated from there. Taking military action on land is not really an option, for various reasons.

I think the solution, for now, is to just set up convoys. They've worked well historically. Christ, you really only need one frigate or destroyer sized military vessel per convoy, if that. That is, if the shipping companies weren't so concerned with profits.

 

[deletemeplease107]

The French are actually winning at something?
HOLY
SHIT

GO Frencies!!
Go get sum pirates!

 

[megarockman]

I think we should have killed all of them the second we found them.

That, unfortunately, would have been likely to run foul of the UN sanction of the whole operation on grounds of violating the pirates' human rights.

That largely ended in North Africa with stable, centralized governments that wanted to operate on the world political stage in the 20th century.

So now it's the East coast of Africa. As mentioned previously, we can keep killing pirates and increase the security of the shipping lanes (I'm in favor of both) but we also have to work toward the long-term solutions of creating stable, and preferably populist (if not democratic) government in Somalia.

1. Um, I think it's more Britain/France/Italy-took-over-and-ran-the-place-for-themselves.

2. I agree with the general sentiment, but I'm skeptical over the prospects of such a government forming. The only two groups I've seen that have tried to establish control over the whole country with any amount of success are the Islamists and a collection of local warlords.

I think a good solution to the problem would be to reintroduce Q-ships: ships that look like civilian shipping vessels but carry concealed heavy weapons and marines. They allow the pirates to come in close, lulling them into a false sense of security, then reveal the weapons and blow them out of the water.

I doubt pirates would be willing to attack knowing full well that they could end up in little bits.

Thats what I mean by bait ships- have some lure cause them heavy losses enough they start getting skittish.

I am no legal expert, but wouldn't that be considered perfidy?

 

[Ushario]

The reason behind the piracy is poverty.
These people have no livelihoods, their nation has been stripped clean by Western companies.
How can you condemn a man who can't put food on his own table, for taking desperate measures?

The pirates that were shot had actually negotiated the release of the captain, without any ransom, because things were obviously going south. According to the pirates at any rate.

It would be cheaper for these shipping companies, and the countries that have mobilised ships to the area, to give aid to those in need. Some of these ships have been ransomed for eight million dollars or more. That could help out a lot of people in a nation like Somalia.

Just to clarify, the ship in question was actually carrying food aid Africans when it was taken over. Soooo...yeah. I can sort of condemn men like that. Admittedly, if I was starving I'd probably try to kidnap and extort other people (and murder them if they didn't pay up) as well...

Its not like the pirates were aware of that before they attacked the ship now is it?

 

[Xvito]

No, if you get rid of the problem you don't deal with permanently, if get rid of it you get rid of it permanently.

What does that even mean?


I think that the US navy acted in precisely the right way. They tried to reach an agreement, and when that failed, they acted quickly without hesitation. 3 less pirates, and one more innocent man who can go back to his family.

If they did in fact try to negotiate then it's a completely different thing. You can only try so hard, right...

 

[A Raging Emo]

Those pirates were boring. They didn't even wear eyepatches or say 'Yarrrrrr'.

 

[Liverandbacon]

The reason behind the piracy is poverty.
These people have no livelihoods, their nation has been stripped clean by Western companies.
How can you condemn a man who can't put food on his own table, for taking desperate measures?

The pirates that were shot had actually negotiated the release of the captain, without any ransom, because things were obviously going south. According to the pirates at any rate.

It would be cheaper for these shipping companies, and the countries that have mobilised ships to the area, to give aid to those in need. Some of these ships have been ransomed for eight million dollars or more. That could help out a lot of people in a nation like Somalia.

Just to clarify, the ship in question was actually carrying food aid Africans when it was taken over. Soooo...yeah. I can sort of condemn men like that. Admittedly, if I was starving I'd probably try to kidnap and extort other people (and murder them if they didn't pay up) as well...

Its not like the pirates were aware of that before they attacked the ship now is it?

Don't try to justify piracy with poverty. I have friends who were once far below the poverty line, and needed to resort to dumpster diving just to get food. They've managed to get out of that situation with their honor and their humanity intact.

People have formed the social contract of civilization in order to protect the life, liberty, and property of the greatest possible number of people. Without this social contract, human existence would be, in the words of Thomas Hobbes, "nasty, brutish, and short". By threatening the life, liberty, or property of a fellow human being, you become a criminal, and sever your ties with the social contract, including the protection it provides. Since civilized people are essentially decent, they make an effort to end the threat to one of their own, while attempting to bring the person who has broken the social contract back into the fold with negotiation. However, when such negotiation fails, depending on the seriousness of the crime, the criminal in question will lose either their property from a fine, their liberty from jail time, or their life, as was the case with these pirates. No matter how you choose to justify their actions, these men violently severed their ties with civilization and its protection.

Edit:

Buy what I have been reading the best way America can deal with the pirates is stop thinking they can take what they want from the world.

America's fishing industry (apparently, again just what I have read) is muscling in on more and more places around the world forcing these less well off people to turn to piracy because their jobs have been lost.

Im not sure how accurate that is, but it comes under the catagory, lets solve the cause of the problem, instead of dealing with its effects.

I don't think you can blame the US for instability in Africa. European colonialism created this problem long ago, and unfortunately, it's too late to undo those mistakes.

 

[Doug]

Bizarre, I heard theres been more attacks on US freighters from other Somali pirates...makes me wonder how hard is it to keep a bunch of guys in a wooden fishing dinghy off a mass of steel like those super freighters?

Maybe posted guards and some weapons should become standard o.p. now.

Well, thing is, these Super Tankers have extremely small crews - maybe 15 or less typically. Primary, this is to keep costs down as humans are the most expensive running cost on nearly everything. Hence, a small force of pirates can easily overwhelm a tanker crew.

Armed guards are a possible counter measure, but some pirates are using RPGs now, which can force even them into surrender lest the pirates sink the ships. Add to that, the cost of employing, say, 5 guards and paying them enough to keep them loyal even under attack is quite expensive.

 

[[zonking great]]

]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombardment_of_Algiers
No port, no pirates.

So you're using a 200 year old example to justify your statement?

Yes, I am. Thsoe who do not learn from their mistakes are doomed to repeat them. But you can also learn from things that went well in the past.

Also, I like how the blame is automatically dumped on the West in this kind of case.

 

[Ushario]

I don't think you can blame the US for instability in Africa. European colonialism created this problem long ago, and unfortunately, it's too late to undo those mistakes.

The US can't be blamed entirely, but it has certainly contributed. These people have created this problem, they need to fix it. Shooting these people isn't the answer. Paying reparations for damages cause by illegal fishing would be a start.

It will never happen though, due to greed and fools such as yourself who self righteously believe that these people have the means to better themselves. They don't. They are starving, they are denied food and clean water due to poverty and have no medical assistance.

Your friends didn't overcome these challenges, your friends live in a developed nation which has many opportunities. Your definition of being in a state of poverty would be laughable to these people.