Pirates ruining it for the rest of us.

[Something Amyss]

I'm sure we have all seen the story on Escapist of The Witcher 2 being pirated 4.5 million times and games companies like Ubisoft saying that PC ports aren't worth it because of the money they lose to piracy.

Of course, the Witcher 2 numbers were an asspull, as anyone who read the original article might tell you. Oh, and the Ubisoft guy was "mistranslated..." Well, that one was dumb, but there was a point there.

Shouldn't the legit PC gamers say to the pirates out there that 'Enough is enough'.

I wasn't aware of many PC gamers who actually tolerated it. Well, except pirates, who usually justify it, but pirates are hardly going to stick up to themselves.

They are going to ruin our gaming platform with their shenanigans.

No they're not. CD Projekt isn't shutting down and still stands by its policy on DRM. Ubisoft was talking about porting an Ecks Blah game. Quick, someone post that "happily dying since...." picture. Piracy has been "killing" PC gaming since the 80s at least.

It just surprises me that this subject isn't more discussed among gamers and that pirates and pirating websites are not turned in by actual gamers more often as it is harming what we enjoy.

Seems to come up a fair bit.

The concept of turning sites in is a little silly, isn't it? I mean, what do you think happens? Consider that the Pirate Bay is well-known to international governments and it's still up.

Maybe you should champion SOPA. Sure, it's harsh, draconian even. Sure, it could make you a felon for something as simple as uploading a cover version of a song on Youtube. Sure, it will divide the "worldwide web," but in order to get what you seem to want, we're going top need harsh, draconian measures that will further infringe on your freedoms.

Just for being a PC gamer.

Or internet user.

Or music fan.

 

[NoNameMcgee]

Protip: shut down Pirate Bay. You know, have people who can do something about it actually do something about it.

Sure, there'll be massive fucking rage, but that'll blow over eventually.

Wouldnt do a damn thing, people who know what they're doing use private torrent trackers, or use a site like warez-bb to get rapidshare/megaupload links and download with something like FreeRapid because its almost untraceable. Also, PirateBay disappears = another torrent site appears in its place.

But the people who don't know what they're doing, which at the very least are maybe half of the frequenters, wouldn't.

The biggest problem for more casual pirates is that they know there's absolutely no chance that there'll be consequences. Once there are, it'll weed a good few of them out.

Maybe, but like I said, PirateBay isn't really anything special, its just a site that hosts torrents that people upload. If PirateBay gets taken down a different site simply takes the lead and becomes the place everyone uses. There are hundreds if not thousands of other torrent sites, some of which are already nearly on par with PB in terms of content.

 

[Zhukov]

Eh, I'm not inclined to agree.

Unsavoury though it is, I think the pirate scene provide an important element to the... industry's eco-system if you will. They ensure that there's always a last resort if the publishers start screwing us too hard. For example, those people who lose their Steam or Origin libraries due to forum bans, there's an obvious course of action for them.

Pirated software is going to continue to exist for the foreseeable future. No amount of whining or DRM will make it go away. Might as well take it into account.

 

[Moonlight Butterfly]

Honestly, I'd be more inclined to do this if the publishers would stop screwing me over and treating me like shit.
.

Believe me I totally agree with you. The legitimate gamers are the ones who are getting caught in the crossfire, we are the ones who the pirates are hurting and that's my argument really.

I wouldn't mind seeing piracy stopped, but when it comes to hurting legitimate consumers, or threatening to shut off specific platforms,

This is the exact reason why we should be worried about piracy. Devlopers have the exact view that you say, they look at those pirated games and think wow look at all the money we lost developing for the PC lets go and develop for xbox instead. That my point pirates are killing PC gaming because developers DO see those figures as lost sales whether we think that's accurate or not.

They do nothing to support for the game designers; same as the pirates don't. As such they can never be considered fans. Should be okay on general gaming forums, but not on fan sites.

I agree but I didn't want this discussion to be sidetracked. I think second hand sales is a more complicated issue.

 

[veloper]

-Snip-

-Snip-

I will repeat...

If people didn't pirate the games, then developers wouldn't feel the need to try to protect their product. PARADOX.

Also, the developer and even the publisher has little say in whether or not a game gets DRM. Shareholders demand that their investment is protected. Which leads to DRM.

Blame the pirates, not the developers.

Don't blame the developers for something that's out of their hands.

We blame the publishers.

 

[Rasmus Emilsson]

-Snip-

-Snip-

I will repeat...

If people didn't pirate the games, then developers wouldn't feel the need to try to protect their product. PARADOX.

Also, the developer and even the publisher has little say in whether or not a game gets DRM. Shareholders demand that their investment is protected. Which leads to DRM.

Blame the pirates, not the developers.

Don't blame the developers for something that's out of their hands.

I'm not blaming the developers, i'm blaming the greedy fuckers, namely the publishers. Who doesn't see a customer, but who sees us as an enemy who must be dealt with. Gabe Newell recently wrote about this and in short said "if you provide your customers with good service and reasonable prices, then piracy will become a non-issue".

This is fucking brilliant, so why doesn't every publisher go this route instead and make a huge load of more money. well, because they have the same intelligence as a fucking brick. simple as that.

Now, go die in a fire Bobby Kotick!

 

[Something Amyss]

Don't blame the developers for something that's out of their hands.

They can't control their response to piracy? The child abuse.domestic abuse defense? Really?

 

[Balkan]

here is the thing . Most of the pirates arent from rich countryes like yourse (in my country the a game is just about 1/3 of the averyge salory ), and will never EVER buy games regularly . They dont ruin it for you . The sales for PC wont change much if piracy just disapears .

 

[DustyDrB]

Protip: shut down Pirate Bay. You know, have people who can do something about it actually do something about it.

Sure, there'll be massive fucking rage, but that'll blow over eventually.

Wouldnt do a damn thing, people who know what they're doing use private torrent trackers, or use a site like warez-bb to get rapidshare/megaupload links and download with something like FreeRapid because its almost untraceable. Also, PirateBay disappears = another torrent site appears in its place.

I think part of the reason why it is so prevalent is that you don't need to know what you're doing to be able to pirate. It's just too freaking easy. A friend of mine used to always go to a particular website to be able to watch shows online. But when that site was shut down by the FBI, he just gave up on watching his shows that way and just started renting them.

I don't know how much it would cut down in piracy, but I think we'd see some effect if people had to go through more hoops to do it (rather than just "Go to site, search for game, download"). It shouldn't be so easy anyway.

 

[Kopikatsu]

-Snip-

-Snip-

I will repeat...

If people didn't pirate the games, then developers wouldn't feel the need to try to protect their product. PARADOX.

Also, the developer and even the publisher has little say in whether or not a game gets DRM. Shareholders demand that their investment is protected. Which leads to DRM.

Blame the pirates, not the developers.

Don't blame the developers for something that's out of their hands.

I'm not blaming the developers, i'm blaming the greedy fuckers, namely the publishers. Who doesn't see a customer, but who sees us as an enemy who must be dealt with. Gabe Newell recently wrote about this and in short said "if you provide your customers with good service and reasonable prices, then piracy will become a non-issue".

This is fucking brilliant, so why doesn't every publisher go this route instead and make a huge load of more money. well, because they have the same intelligence as a fucking brick. simple as that.

Now, go die in a fire Bobby Kotick!

Again, while the publishers do develop the DRM, they have to make it secure enough that the shareholders say 'Okay'. If it's inadequate, then they have to go back and make it stricter.

Such is one of the flaws of an open market.

Don't blame the developers for something that's out of their hands.

They can't control their response to piracy? The child abuse.domestic abuse defense? Really?

The Publishers are the ones who make the DRM, not the developers. And the Publishers are more or less forced to by the shareholders, since they kind of control the company. That's what the stock market is. Selling/trading shares of a company. If you own enough stock in a company, you get to make decisions for them. In this case, they're trying to protect their investment with DRM.

 

[Lamp Salesman]

"You can't beat 'Free'.

Also, pirates obviously think the game is worth something, otherwise they wouldn't have pirated the game in the first place. By taking the time to download the game and using the space on their computer, they've shown a greater than zero interest and would obviously be willing to pay something."


What if they simply can't afford to buy the games? Being a gamer is expensive,regardless of platform. Why should the poor be excluded? Libraries exist, and music can be listened to and recorded from the radio. Why should games be the only media free from being copied and freely distributed?

 

[Moonlight Butterfly]

I'm sure we have all seen the story on Escapist of The Witcher 2 being pirated 4.5 million times and games companies like Ubisoft saying that PC ports aren't worth it because of the money they lose to piracy.

Of course, the Witcher 2 numbers were an asspull, as anyone who read the original article might tell you. Oh, and the Ubisoft guy was "mistranslated..." Well, that one was dumb, but there was a point there.

Shouldn't the legit PC gamers say to the pirates out there that 'Enough is enough'.

I wasn't aware of many PC gamers who actually tolerated it. Well, except pirates, who usually justify it, but pirates are hardly going to stick up to themselves.

They are going to ruin our gaming platform with their shenanigans.

No they're not. CD Projekt isn't shutting down and still stands by its policy on DRM. Ubisoft was talking about porting an Ecks Blah game. Quick, someone post that "happily dying since...." picture. Piracy has been "killing" PC gaming since the 80s at least.

It just surprises me that this subject isn't more discussed among gamers and that pirates and pirating websites are not turned in by actual gamers more often as it is harming what we enjoy.

Seems to come up a fair bit.

The concept of turning sites in is a little silly, isn't it? I mean, what do you think happens? Consider that the Pirate Bay is well-known to international governments and it's still up.

Maybe you should champion SOPA. Sure, it's harsh, draconian even. Sure, it could make you a felon for something as simple as uploading a cover version of a song on Youtube. Sure, it will divide the "worldwide web," but in order to get what you seem to want, we're going top need harsh, draconian measures that will further infringe on your freedoms.

Just for being a PC gamer.

Or internet user.

Or music fan.

SOPA is a completely separate issue and not at all what I was suggesting it involves putting a ban on even showing the content of games etc which will only go further to harm the industry as they will lose advertising and word of mouth. Piracy completely circumvents any revenue they may gain from these things so you can't say it is the same thing.
You are just trying to discredit the anti piracy argument by associating it loosely with the overreaction of SOPA

No offence but you also can't really tag on 'It has been happening since the eighties and so therefore it's okay' Gaming companies have more access to information about piracy and lost sales that they ever did before. The internet has provided people with an easier route to piracy aswell. Do you really think the disc swapping that went on in the 80's was the same level as the downloading that goes on today?

Games companies are that fed up with piracy that they have even turned around and said our draconian measures of DRM aren't enough and it will come to a point where their loss of money (imagined or not) will not counterbalance PC sales. Money makes the world go around and they will react to that.

here is the thing . Most of the pirates arent from rich countryes like yourse (in my country the a game is just about 1/3 of the averyge salory ), and will never EVER buy games regularly . They dont ruin it for you . The sales for PC wont change much if piracy just disapears .

I appreciate that but it's not just people who can't afford games who pirate it's also people who would have bought the game if there wasn't an easier 'free' route.

There is also the problem of games prices being static across economies and even quality this also needs to change.

 

[Kopikatsu]

You can't beat 'Free'.

Also, pirates obviously think the game is worth something, otherwise they wouldn't have pirated the game in the first place. By taking the time to download the game and using the space on their computer, they've shown a greater than zero interest and would obviously be willing to pay something.

What if they simply can't afford to buy the games? Being a gamer is expensive,regardless of platform. Why should the poor be excluded? Libraries exist, and music can be listened to and recorded from the radio. Why should games be the only media freee from being copied and freely distributed?[/quote]

If you can't afford it, then you don't get to play the games. Boo-hoo.

I mean, I've been without enough money for a game I really wanted before, and I just went without.

Video games are a part of the entertainment industry. As in, it isn't vital to your continued existence. If you can't afford it, that's unfortunate. But also too fuckin' bad. (I'm not entirely sure why libraries don't carry video games, though. Probably because the licensing costs are way too expensive compared to something like books or old movies.)

 

[Durgiun]

"You can't beat 'Free'.

Also, pirates obviously think the game is worth something, otherwise they wouldn't have pirated the game in the first place. By taking the time to download the game and using the space on their computer, they've shown a greater than zero interest and would obviously be willing to pay something."


What if they simply can't afford to buy the games? Being a gamer is expensive,regardless of platform. Why should the poor be excluded? Libraries exist, and music can be listened to and recorded from the radio. Why should games be the only media free from being copied and freely distributed?

Poor ass bastard here to lend some weight to the idea. I honest to god can't afford every frikkin' game that comes out, but what I can do is pirate it and then buy it when the price goes down two years from the release.

Speaking of which, how come nobody has yet to mention that method ''pirate, try out, buy when on sale''? It's either ''buy at full price'' or ''STEAL THE PRECIOUS'' in this bloody thread.

 

[Olivia Faraday]

People who are going to buy a new game are going to buy a new game.

The people who pirate a game are not people who were going to buy the game, but are now not going to buy the game because they pirated the game. They're people who will wait for the game to be in a bargain bin before even considering buying it.

Yeah, sure, I've pirated games. It's not illegal in my country. But never a game that I was planning on buying, and if I like the game after playing it pirated, I always fork out the money for it so I can support the company and get more games like it made. Most pirates are just like me.

Pirates aren't ruining PC gaming. Those 4.5 million pirated copies of the Witcher 2 DO NOT equall 4.5 un-sales. Thinking that they do is a basic misunderstanding of this market. Piracy won't end until games get reasonable try-before-buy policies, stop having DRM, and stop region locking. It's companies that are ruining PC gaming based on their outdated and hilarious ideas of who and what pirates are, not the pirates themselves.

Look at Valve. They're PC-only, they're anti-DRM, and are THEY hurting for cash? Hell, no.

The fact is, after buying a legal copy of a game, I often still pirate it. Why? Because pirated copies are more flexible, lack DRM, and can be used on any machine. It's an issue of convenience.

 

[Lilani]

I'm sure we have all seen the story on Escapist of The Witcher 2 being pirated 4.5 million times and games companies like Ubisoft saying that PC ports aren't worth it because of the money they lose to piracy.

Shouldn't the legit PC gamers say to the pirates out there that 'Enough is enough'. They are going to ruin our gaming platform with their shenanigans. I personally hate being lumped in with people who steal just because I am a PC gamer.

Please note that I am not talking about second hand sales, I personally think that the consumer should be allowed to treat their own property as just that as long as it doesn't violate the IP and copyright laws. I don't trade in games myself but I can at least see the argument there.

It just surprises me that this subject isn't more discussed among gamers and that pirates and pirating websites are not turned in by actual gamers more often as it is harming what we enjoy.

I guess my discussion value is that 'Do you think gamers should take a bigger responsibility in looking after the integrity of their platform and shunning those that do pirate.'

What are we supposed to do? Make programs that track the ISPs and locations of all the pirates and burn their houses down? Or maybe just give them an informational pamphlet on the harm pirating does to developers and gamers alike? You can't talk or guilt people into not pirating. That's just absurd. They don't pirate because they aren't aware of how bad it can be. They pirate because they don't want to pay for the game. They don't give two shits about what others think or how it affects the games industry, and there is nothing PC gamers, developers, or even the federal government can tell them that can possibly change their minds.

The best we can do at this point is to give gamers a reason for buying the game legitimately without making used game buyers feel neglected, and make the DRM unlocking process as thorough yet as painless as possible for legitimate buyers. Until we can come up with the ultimate DRM--one that is unbreakable AND easy to use--pirating is just something we're going to have to accept and deal with.

 

[Aeshi]

-Snip-

-Snip-

I will repeat...

If people didn't pirate the games, then developers wouldn't feel the need to try to protect their product. PARADOX.

Also, the developer and even the publisher has little say in whether or not a game gets DRM. Shareholders demand that their investment is protected. Which leads to DRM.

Blame the pirates, not the developers.

Don't blame the developers for something that's out of their hands.

I'm not blaming the developers, i'm blaming the greedy fuckers, namely the publishers. Who doesn't see a customer, but who sees us as an enemy who must be dealt with. Gabe Newell recently wrote about this and in short said "if you provide your customers with good service and reasonable prices, then piracy will become a non-issue".

This is fucking brilliant, so why doesn't every publisher go this route instead and make a huge load of more money. well, because they have the same intelligence as a fucking brick. simple as that.

Now, go die in a fire Bobby Kotick!

Except "Good Service & Reasonable Prices" is never going to beat "Free", I highly doubt people put off pirating TF2 back when it wasn't free just because they wouldn't get "patches" that consisted of useless hats and weapons that were actually community made until Valve borrowed them.

Maybe if Valve did something these days other than TF2 crossover items and selling community-made items back to said community they'd realize that.

 

[Xanthious]

Protip: shut down Pirate Bay. You know, have people who can do something about it actually do something about it.

Sure, there'll be massive fucking rage, but that'll blow over eventually.

Wouldnt do a damn thing, people who know what they're doing use private torrent trackers, or use a site like warez-bb to get rapidshare/megaupload links and download with something like FreeRapid because its almost untraceable. Also, PirateBay disappears = another torrent site appears in its place.

But the people who don't know what they're doing, which at the very least are maybe half of the frequenters, wouldn't.

The biggest problem for more casual pirates is that they know there's absolutely no chance that there'll be consequences. Once there are, it'll weed a good few of them out.

It would just be Napster all over again if you started to shut down central hubs like Pirate Bay. It would be harder for your casual pirates for a short time but in a few months something else would pop up and the cycle would start all over.

History has shown that people that want games/movies/music for free will always find a way to get it. Trying to stop them has yielded fuck all for actual results over the course of the past three decades. The most that has been accomplished is to kinda inconvenience them for a short period of time. However, even when companies do manage to throw a small bump on the road of piracy it's typically worked around in such a small amount of time to make the amount of money and man power put into it all but a total waste.

Piracy isn't going anywhere. Trying to stop it is just tilting at windmills. It's a simple numbers game and the pirates have the numbers in a big way. On top of that they are just as smart as the if not smarter then those trying to stop them and are able to dedicate all their efforts to working around whatever is put in their path. It's a losing battle pure and simple and more times than not a waste of resources to even try to stop what is ultimately going to be inevitable.

 

[Lamp Salesman]

"If you can't afford it, then you don't get to play the games. Boo-hoo.

I mean, I've been without enough money for a game I really wanted before, and I just went without.

Video games are a part of the entertainment industry. As in, it isn't vital to your continued existence. If you can't afford it, that's unfortunate. But also too fuckin' bad. (I'm not entirely sure why libraries don't carry video games, though. Probably because the licensing costs are way too expensive compared to something like books or old movies.)"

This is a ridiculous, childish attitude to take. I'm well aware that video games aren't essential to my continued existence. So what? Food is essential and yet I still have to pay for it. What was the point you were trying to make?
The point *I* was trying to make is that art, literature, music, television and film can all be viewed for free or next to nothing, while video games are expensive and DRM is obtrusive and oppressive and simply *doesn't work*. It's a legitimate complaint, and it doesn't make me a whiner or a cry-baby.