Pirates ruining it for the rest of us.

[Zakarath]

You're never going to stop piracy. The best thing you can do is simply make good games, make them easy to buy and use (no DRM) and have enough decent people support it to make some money out of the deal.

 

[direkiller]

I always thought there should be some way for a game to be limited to 1 system upon activation. I have no idea how though. Possibly locking itself to your PCs IP address (?) or something. Or locking to some other serial code unique to your machine.

I clearly have no clue what the hell Im talking about I admit but hopefully someone will understand what I mean

its very possible
All Microsoft products do this
the problem is last time EA tried to do this with Mass Effect(limit it to 5 installs per cd key no refunds on installs if you uninstall or failed install) they got told off stupidly fast


Most games that go online only allow 1 account loged in per CD key(Diablo did this like 12 years ago) i don't think this has ever caused a fuss while makeing the free version inferior however it started that whole "this game needs multiplayer or else it wont sell" moto which muttled quite a few games with potential.

 

[Headdrivehardscrew]

Protip: shut down Pirate Bay. You know, have people who can do something about it actually do something about it.

Sure, there'll be massive fucking rage, but that'll blow over eventually.

I am quite sure it's not that easy to solve this problem. And I don't think shutting down the Pirate Bay is part of the solution, no matter how the industry or politicians manage to spin this.

If you dare go to Egypt, you'll be able to find PS3 units "refurbished" with 300gb hard drives filled to the brim with games. I don't think you'll be able to go onto PSN with those, but people don't care. All they want is all the games, preferrably at zero cost. I myself am not into illegal copies, but I am one of those that doesn't agree much with regional locking. So, what should I do, get one DVD/BluRay player for every region? Get one of each console for every region? According to the industry, the answer would probably be 'yes'. Ever since Sony shut down that one notable exporter of (mostly legitimate) gaming goods, hardware and software alike, the rules seem to have changed rather significantly. Yet, still, Nintendo who must have spent a lot of money on own formats, own standards, own non-standardized gear get pirated silly. The last time I've been to Serbia, even the kids who can't yet read know how to handle loading Wii games from a hard drive lying around on the floor.

It's been a while since I've been to the Ukraine. But last time I was there, you could get factory-grade, pressed pirated goods, games software, operating systems for every system. Complete discographies of just about any artist on a single CD, in crap quality MP3 format - all in shiny walk-in stores, not from some scruffy bastard in the dark corners of the meat market. The same thing will be true for just about the whole of Eastern Europe, Mideast, Northern Africa and large parts of Asia. Spain would also have to be considered worth mentioning in this context. Why do people buy pirated crap? They think they recognize something they want, no matter how shabby it looks. They see the more than competitive pricing, and they think they just luckily stumbled over a sweet deal.

I have no numbers, but I personally know very few people who even know about PirateBay, and of those that do not even a rounded up 5% download stuff from there. However, even my Indian and Iranian neighbours who don't speak anything more locally useful than pidgin english have tons of games on CD-R and DVD-R media. It's how they are normally obtained in their corners of the world, and they were more confused than shocked when I told them that that's not the proper way, and games look different when genuine, and they normally come in boxes. It was as if they heard the Earth was not flat for the very first time.

I am no expert on this, but I simply can't imagine that Pirate Bay could possibly damage the industry as much as the non-legit output from the pressing plants, or the shipping containers full of illegal wares hailing from, say, China.

If we're talking iOS piracy, I keep finding Installous installed on devices at retailers and even within Apple Stores. So, piracy there really does seem quite easy to do - yet it's also a market that's very much alive and there's money to be made.

 

[Wintermoot]

nope gaming companies should man up.
if piracy has a big as impact as they say the music and movie industries should have collapsed by now.

 

[xdiesp]

I say the industry would reshape for the better if everyone had the brains to buy no games above 20$ in direct online distributions.

 

[Headdrivehardscrew]

It doesn't bother me because I also own an Xbox 360, but I can see why you're annoyed. I hate piracy, but publisher's don't help themselves. When Gabe Newell said that most cases of piracy are because of the service and not because of the cost it's true. If Ubisoft stopped using their stupid fucking DRM then their products would sell much better.

This - true for our Western, modern, 21st century societies and economies.

I intended to get Assassin's Ass on PC. Then they came up with their DRM and always-on wet dreams. So, what did I do? I just cancelled my pre-order and watched one of my buddies finish it on PS3. Minus one sale. Oh, and due to that first non-sale, I never felt like revisiting the Assassin's Ass franchise ever again - because I had severe issues with how they displayed the crusaders, mainly. It's nasty, offensive and untrue. But that's just me being very intolerant to other interpretations, I take it.

 

[Balkan]

here is the thing . Most of the pirates arent from rich countryes like yourse (in my country the a game is just about 1/3 of the averyge salory ), and will never EVER buy games regularly . They dont ruin it for you . The sales for PC wont change much if piracy just disapears .

The sales wouldn't change but we would get more games ported to PC and less restrictive DRM.

I think that youre right about the DRM , but why whould developers port more games than they do now if there isnt more sales ? Its all about the money . I dislike piracy , because the develepors are focusing on multiplayer (most pirated game dont allow multiplayer ) and not to the story (I do pirate some games , which sucks cos I dont have money to buy them ).

 

[Nopenahnuhuh]

I'm sure we have all seen the story on Escapist of The Witcher 2 being pirated 4.5 million times and games companies like Ubisoft saying that PC ports aren't worth it because of the money they lose to piracy.

Shouldn't the legit PC gamers say to the pirates out there that 'Enough is enough'. They are going to ruin our gaming platform with their shenanigans. I personally hate being lumped in with people who steal just because I am a PC gamer.

Please note that I am not talking about second hand sales, I personally think that the consumer should be allowed to treat their own property as just that as long as it doesn't violate the IP and copyright laws. I don't trade in games myself but I can at least see the argument there.

It just surprises me that this subject isn't more discussed among gamers and that pirates and pirating websites are not turned in by actual gamers more often as it is harming what we enjoy.

I guess my discussion value is that 'Do you think gamers should take a bigger responsibility in looking after the integrity of their platform and shunning those that do pirate.'

Here's the thing with piracy, anyone who pirates a game and is set on not buying it won't buy it, so it's not exactly a lost sale, it's a sale that wasn't going to be to begin with. Others pirate games in order to see if it's worth it and then buys it, know plenty of people who do that, they pirated the witcher 2 for example, just to see if their PCs could run it and they would like it, they did and bought it of STEAM or GOG, so those 5 pirated copies became 5 original copies.

Piracy isn't the devil everyone makes it out to be, companies simply don't understand it well enough to use it.

 

[Athinira]

What publishers need to do is replicate what piracy offers. DRM-free. Easy to access. Content rich. Available everywhere at the same time. No stupid day-1 DLC BS. High quality content at release (i.e. no stupid day 1 BSODs). The problem is people would just pirate it anyway because the pirated version is free and therefor still superior, changing nothing.

Fixed that for you.

Wrong.

Consumers have five overall goals (some consumers weights some of them more than others) when it comes to acquire entertainment, and it's perfectly possible to digital entertainment to compete with piracy on several of the points.

Consumers want:
1) As much quality entertainment as possible...
2) ...as cheap as possible...
3) ...as fast as possible (as in, the earlier it's available and they can use it, the better)...
4) ...as easy as possible (or in short: availability and comfort)...
5) ...as morally right as possible (including feeling of customer loyalty etc. having a say).

Now, the fifth point is the most dubious one, since there are obviously pirates out there who doesn't give a sh*t about morals, but even some of them typically have a sense of customer loyalty to some companies, which can convince them to buy a game if, say, it's on sale. On the other hand, the fifth point also works in the opposite direction, which is why Origin for example is facing a lot of problems, especially in light of the recent controversy where forum bans leads to total Origin account-ban removing the access to play games. That's an example of giving consumers an incentive to pirate in the first place, and EA isn't exactly a company with a lot of customer loyalty in the first place.

But in any rate, there is plenty of ways that developers and publishers can compete on points 1 through 4. Even point 2, which is very hard to compete with against piracy, can in some ways be useful. For example Valve who decided to make Team Fortress 2 free2play (and just like many MMO's discovered that to compete with World of Warcraft, the free2play model was also the way to go). Another is to just make very cheap games on a low budget, which can also turn a profit because consumers (even pirates) love cheap games. In fact, my Steam account currently has 117 games, and i haven't played half of them. I just bought them because they were cheap/on-sale, in case i some day WANTED to play them. Which also bring me to my third point: PUT GAMES ON SALE. The limited availability at a low price to get the product legally instantly trigger the shopping gene in humans (yes, not only females have it). This, btw, also includes letting game prices drop over time so you also get to cover the demographic that isn't willing to spend $60 on a game, but might be willing to spend $50/$40/$30/$20, even if it means getting the game later.

Point 1, 3 and 4 are also very easy to outdo pirated products in. Point 1 mentions 'Quality Entertainment', which for example could be online-only features or multiplayer (pirated products typically exclude you from either and only allow the single-player). A way to mishandle point 1 is the Ubisoft always-online DRM with no benefit in return, which i a great way to shoot yourself in the feet.

Point 3 is also a way to compete with piracy. Even though games typically appear very fast on the torrents (sometimes even before release), typically the fastest way to get to play a game is buying it legally, even if it means you only get to be one or two days ahead of the pirates. That's why people buy games on pre-order instead of just buying it on the day it's available and line up in front of game stores before release, because they want to make sure they can play it the INSTANT it's available. They like the capability to pre-load games as well, which makes services like Steam so interesting. On an interesting sidenote, the Movie industry actually managed to reduce piracy slightly when they realized that waiting too long between a movie going in the theaters and being released on DVD (and VHS back in the days) caused people to pirate more because they couldn't wait, so they started reducing the time between theater and DVD release. It was a success.

Point 4 is also rather easy. Even pirated games has to be backed up (likely on an external hard drive, which you then need to carry around with you). I carry an external HD around with all my old games i backed up via. a CD-backup software, and they take up almost 300 gigabytes of legal games that would be much easier to have on Steam (if they were available there, that is). Services like Steam render that point moot as long as you have an internet connection. Also, to throw back to the games i talked about that i bought but never played, it's the feeling i had when shopping for those games that they would be 'available' to me (even if i didn't play them, not yet at least) that was one of the incentives to buy them. Also, Steam handles the installation of games much more smoothly than having to crack a game, with the only exception of the games that are heavily DRM based even in Steam and require you to go through a million loopholes.

All you have to do is combine the above four points (five, if you start working on customer loyalty as well), create something awesome, and you have plenty of ways to compete with piracy by offering a superior product, even if it isn't free.

 

[Headdrivehardscrew]

here is the thing . Most of the pirates arent from rich countryes like yourse (in my country the a game is just about 1/3 of the averyge salory ), and will never EVER buy games regularly . They dont ruin it for you . The sales for PC wont change much if piracy just disapears .

The sales wouldn't change but we would get more games ported to PC and less restrictive DRM.

Wishful thinking.

To be honest, I have come not to believe anything much distributors say these days. While they do not burn witches, they still seem to prefer to point fingers at any and all available scapegoats instead of rethinking their practices, their stance and anything outside the little world of their own expectations and perceptions.

Take away all piracy, lock down every single computer in the world. Will you get more games, then? No, they will just remember how much money it costs to develop a game on Win platforms, and they would prefer to go for Apple platforms, or they would prefer to develop for the newest processors that aren't out yet, or statistics say the average PC gamer has not enough RAM, or they will cry about people not liking rushed, soul-less ports of console games... I am all for capitalism and democracy, but the big-name amoebas of the gaming world have become rather lazy, and at times it seems they don't feel like doing anything much than point a nasty finger at ye pirates, not wanting to realize how many sales they lost to ignoring their customers - those that actually wanted to buy their games, y'know.

 

[Laurents van Cauwenberghe]

i agree mostly but i have 1 question , what if a kid pirates games because he doesnt get any money from his parents etc (im talking about 12 year olds or something) is it still wrong then?

 

[Vegosiux]

I have a different question.

Say you bought a game, legally, full price, but are outraged at the DRM/online component required (I'm looking at you, EA and Ubisoft).

If you crack it to get past that, is it actually "piracy"? I mean, you did buy the game so you're not stealing anything or infringing on any copyright.

And no, don't pull the "Return it for a refund if you don't like the EULA". Because the moment you take it out of the wrapping/"original packaging", your right to a refund is void, at least here.

They already have you wrapped around there little fingers.

''No, it's totally legit to punish everyone because 1 person does wrong!''

Sorry, but that's about the stupidest thing I've read today.

And the worst bit is, all those DRM shenanigans don't even punish pirates, they only punish legitimate customers!

 

[Moonlight Butterfly]

They already have you wrapped around there little fingers.

''No, it's totally legit to punish everyone because 1 person does wrong!''

Sorry, but that's about the stupidest thing I've read today.

Really?

The developers wouldn't have to make measures in the first place if it wasn't for pirates. I'm not sure how you don't see that. They can't determine who is pirating so they have to put tighter controls on their games so they can.

It's the pirates that have you wrapped around their little fingers. Sorry but it is.

I'd like to reiterate a point that someone made to all those people who are saying piracy is not a problem and doesn't matter.

What would happen if those people who legitimately buy games decided to pirate instead. There would be no games industry.

And the worst bit is, all those DRM shenanigans don't even punish pirates, they only punish legitimate customers!

Yeah and why are they there? Becuase of pirates They are the reason we are having to suffer.

 

[Legion IV]

Yes, exactly that. I would also say that you should kick them in the crotch, but apparently that's sexual harassment.

It's an industry-wide issue and should be treated as such.

I have tried this 'method' before. It seems to always end up with them calling me of being a "goodie-goodie" or something of the like. Then they go on about how they're broke or they can't buy games or some lame excuse. I somehow manage to scramble a few bucks together for a game when I want it. I think the pirates attitude towards piracy as a whole is linked to the fact that the internet makes it look so damn easy.

My friend bought and R4 (think there called that) Stole games over and over and over had like so many pirated Ds games, he didn't care what i thought.

He was my friend, i don't stay friends with thief's. Especially when we live in such a privileged world for the most of us.

 

[JesterRaiin]

A little insidious questions :
- Do we still need massive games with big budget ?
Let me remind you that some people finished Skyrim under 30 hours and uninstalled it.

- What does it exactly mean that something was pirated X times ?
Don't shout, i know what i'm asking about. Let me explain : Yesterday i tried to download newest Linux Mint OS (wonderful thing by the way).
However after a few minutes i realized that i accidently selected 32 bit version instead of 64 bit. I switched to second torrent, tried to download it, but there weren't enough seeders so i halted it and tried to download *.iso image directly. Then i called my 6 friends and told them that i have *.iso and they don't need to download it.
So, what statistics do tell - how many times Linux Mint was downloaded ? 1 (*.iso file) 3 (*.iso file and unfinished torrent x2) or maybe 7 (me and my 6 friends) ?

Same thing with games - i'm not convinced that torrent centers are that eager to share their true statistics.

 

[chadachada123]

I'm sure we have all seen the story on Escapist of The Witcher 2 being pirated 4.5 million times and games companies like Ubisoft saying that PC ports aren't worth it because of the money they lose to piracy.

Shouldn't the legit PC gamers say to the pirates out there that 'Enough is enough'. They are going to ruin our gaming platform with their shenanigans. I personally hate being lumped in with people who steal just because I am a PC gamer.

Please note that I am not talking about second hand sales, I personally think that the consumer should be allowed to treat their own property as just that as long as it doesn't violate the IP and copyright laws. I don't trade in games myself but I can at least see the argument there.

It just surprises me that this subject isn't more discussed among gamers and that pirates and pirating websites are not turned in by actual gamers more often as it is harming what we enjoy.

I guess my discussion value is that 'Do you think gamers should take a bigger responsibility in looking after the integrity of their platform and shunning those that do pirate.'

I think that a large number of pirates could be turned towards purchase by lowering prices to a reasonable, or even affordable, level.

Additionally, we should recognize that many (most?) pirates will not purchase the game, no matter what, making any attempts at reducing their number through screwing paying consumers infantile and futile. If they can't pirate the game, they just won't play it, or will wait until the price is REASONABLE.

 

[Ziame]

Numero uno: Pirates are just an excuse to whine. Besides, notice that pirate actions actually DO benefit us, gamers - we have cheaper games than PS3/XBox (I know this is stretching it, but you have to look from every side of the problem
Numero dos: Why is it a reason to whine? If someone refuses to pay for a game, he will pirate it or not buy it, so either way: no cash made by the company. I personally buy games only because it's a sensible move: if I give devs money, they'll give me new games. Easy as that.
Numero tres: How about we get rid of all the pirated Windowses on PCs. Besides, have you seen Microsoft whine about piracy? I mean, so many people have illegal OS, hell, many shops just include unpaid copies on ready-to-go PCs... on the other hand, almost every university student gets free code for every single one Microsoft product. (At least in Poland on non-arts degrees, you can get free Windows key, office key etc).
Numero cuatro: We shouldn't stop pirates because they hurt us as a community. We should stop them because PIRATING IS FUCKING WRONG! And because every pirated copy is a sign of disrespect for the author. "Fuck you, CD-Project, I will play your awesome Witcher, but you ain't gonna see any money for your hard work. Because I am that rebel."


We have to realise that movies often start having gain from boxoffices, even before the movies go to DVD and musicians often get most of their income from concerting - but we have to think about the game producers, as they don't get any of those chances.

And I agree, every honest PC gamer should always stand stalwart and say "I don't pirate - it is wrong".

That is all.

 

[chadachada123]

I have a different question.

Say you bought a game, legally, full price, but are outraged at the DRM/online component required (I'm looking at you, EA and Ubisoft).

If you crack it to get past that, is it actually "piracy"? I mean, you did buy the game so you're not stealing anything or infringing on any copyright.

And no, don't pull the "Return it for a refund if you don't like the EULA". Because the moment you take it out of the wrapping/"original packaging", your right to a refund is void, at least here.

There is no doubt that it violates the EULA that you agreed to prior to cracking it. It would be reason for them to terminate your right to use it. As far as just how far it could be taken if brought to court, this is not something I would want to chance.

It doesn't violate the EULA if you never agreed to it. Since opening the package makes it not returnable, and I haven't agreed to the contract (since I haven't even seen its terms as of the time of purchase), I am either guaranteed a refund or do not have to follow the EULA. You can't be forced into a contract that you haven't read yet for use of a product that you bought (not knowing what the contract was at the time of purchase).