Pissed at my English teacher, justified?

[TheTurtleMan]

If the teacher didn't think it was a piece of art, then it wasn't a piece of art. That doesn't make sense, although that is the kind of rules that go with school, the teacher is always right. If she didn't specify as to what kind of art, then you should be frustrated, but if she gave solid guidelines as to what you can write about, then you don't have much of an arguement. Although I would talk to the counselor if I were you just in case you can squeeze a couple more points out of the paper. I'd be pissed I were you too.

You probably should have asked your teacher if it would have been okay, BEFORE you started the paper. Hope you can resolve this though.

 

[Semitendon]

No, you have no right to be upset about the situation.

You should have asked your teacher if she would accept video games as "art".

If she was one of those, "art" is everything people, then she would have had nothing to say.

Fortunately for the world, it would appear that she has higher criteria for art, and has rightly rejected the idea that a group of people writing software is "art".

Considering that you didn't complete the assignment as instructed, and she still gave you an 85%, I would say you came out of the situation on top.

Why is that "fortunate" for the world if she has a "higher criteria" for art. Who are you to say that video games can't be art. Look at some games out there like Ico, Shadow of the Colossus, etc. Those just being the "artsy" games, you could even defend that other games are even better forms of artwork. Something like Zelda which has made multiple great story lines, getting people to think about how and why certain things are happening like a great and epic tale, or Kingdom Hearts that has changed so many people's lives that not only does it make people happy to play but they go so far as to make costumes, props, even entire stories/videos about them. Hell, even games like Final Fantasy, for example in 7 when Aerith died, almost everyone who played that felt some sadness. A game that inspired emotions, like how what you claim art is can inspire emotions. So don't go trying to generalize that one thing can't be art just because you can't see past your boundaries to be able to see how something so great can't be art.

It's fortunate because it means that there are educators that still exist that aren't willing to slap the label "art" on everything.

Video games aren't art. Maybe they could be, but at the moment I haven't seen a game that would qualify.

The ability to change someone's life, make them feel an emotion, and have fans is not the only criteria for art.

Art must be produced because of the artist, or artist's skill. - Does not apply to video games, as they are made almost exclusively to make profit, nor is writing lines of computer code an artistic skill. The best you can hope for is an argument that artist's were involved in the making of the game, which is likely true, but the end result is not the artists, it's the company's that is hoping to make money. Individuals who develop games have the greatest potential to make games an art form, but as I said, that hasn't happened yet.

The reality of making everything "art", is a simple concept. The concept serves as a plot point for X-men the movie, and the cartoon movie the Incredibles. When applied to art the concept reads as follows:

If everything is "art", then nothing is.

 

[Death God]

Art is different to everyone and you (and almost everyone else as well) feel video games are art and so she should accept that. Yes, you are justified to be mad at her.

 

[MorganL4]

Saying Pokemon Red is art is ridiculous. Films are a well established form of art but I don't think you'd see anyone describe stuff like romantic comedies or slasher films as art. Same with drawings, the oldest form of art, you have comics and stuff that just don't fulfill artistic criteria. Games like Flower, Little Big Planet and such can possibly be called art but you'd have to spend a paragraph justifying that.

I'll be the first to admit that little big planet looks better than Pokemon Red. However the ability of the Gameboy to render images and process user input in comparison to the PS3 is like comparing the Lotus to the model T and saying that one looks infinitely better and is thus more of a car.

In regards to art, the Sistine chapel is considered art, but can we honestly say that simply because he didn't have the same tools available to him that the Spanish cave man who made the oldest known cave paintings on earth was not and artist but Michelangelo was?

Because I don't think we can, and I'd wager most people would agree with me.

 

[squiggleface]

You have every right to be pissed but you have to understand that people can disagree with your point and i suppose this is just one of those topics which people differ heavily on

 

[The Madman]

Funny how i didnt touch on what he should do with his teacher and thats all your response to me really is. Remember just cause you type alot doesnt mean your really saying anything. O and Pokemon is a form of art and/or rather has forms of art in it so its not debatable till we are red in the face its a fact.

I don't care about the 'Pokemon is art' thing. I'm talking to the poster is the hopes that he reads it and has the sense to listen. For someone who types so little you don't really say much and seem to understand even less. The question was whether the OP should argue with his teacher over the grade, I answered that question, whether the game is art or not is irrelevant.

And no, it's not fact. Much smarter people than you or I have been debating what constitutes art for hundreds if not thousands of years. But by all means keep on saying it's fact, again, I really don't care. Maybe you're right, maybe you're wrong, maybe it's all subjective. I still don't care.

Whether Pokemon is art or not is purely subjective. If this (http://www.howard-hodgkin.com/photos/PA144.jpg) is art then why not Pokemon? He has every right to argue that his points shouldn't have been taken off.

He has the right, but is it a smart thing to do? That's the question. And I honestly don't think it's worth potentially starting a feud with a teacher over whatever small percentage of an already great grade he got.

Not worth it!

I mean, if that's the case, more power to you, but why is it the default? Why must "Game" or "Comic" always have the precursor of "Just a" in these discussions?

AGAIN, I don't care whether pokemon is art or not. I. Don't. Care. I don't think it is, that's a subjective opinion. You can debate me till your face is red and hell, maybe you're right and I'm just being stubborn. Maybe Pokemon is the greatest artwork ever created by the hands of man, the pinnacle of human achievement from which aliens shall forever remember our race in distant times as a creative spark in the cold depths of space.

Doesn't matter. The question was whether he should argue it with his teacher and the answer to THAT question is no. It's not worth it. He wouldn't have gotten a perfect grade to begin with and honestly I'm skeptical whether she docked any points from the project in the first place. Regardless at the absolute most he's got maybe 5-10% to gain by potentially starting a conflict and bringing other people into this 'debate'. One that could alienate the teacher and which could have long term consequences far greater than the tiny fraction of a percentage he'd be fighting to gain.

 

[Charli]

I don't want to get you in trouble, but I'm behind you 100% if you want to argue this point.

If you feel the battle is worth it on a deeper principle than a essay score. Then do it.

I would.

To those dissenting: http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/109835-Games-Now-Legally-Considered-an-Art-Form-in-the-USA

Sorry, I *really* have to disagree with you there. Just because the medium has been defined as art across the board doesn't mean it applies to everything. With that logic, games like CoD are art. And that's the furthest thing from the truth. Take into account that there needs to be boundaries to what can and cannot be called art otherwise it takes anything special out of the word or the effort that goes into creating true pieces of art.

CoD is not art huh? I think you need a crash course in some of the minds behind these games you knock. I despise the CoD franchise, story and what demographic it appeals to, but I will still stand up for the people who work on those games til the bitter end. We disagree, that is fine, but you should realize what you say, Art is special, very special indeed, and Video games are cumulative product of many artists and programmers working together, sponsored or published by a big soulless corporation or not. And to make a great piece of art like with anything, you make hundreds of crappy sketches, or music pieces or models or animation story boards before you see a great one. And there are crappy games, there are also great ones, worthy of the title of art.

And no art does not need boundaries. If you've ever done anything creative in your life you'd understand this, or are just afraid of competing with everyone's right half of their brain and need a term to elitist-ly block off subjects that you don't comprehend or acknowledge.

True, I see a copy pasted meme and go: Pft well that's dumb what kind of stupid art is that, but at the same time millions of people click on it to laugh, so there has to be a spark of creativity somewhere if millions of people like it. It probably took way less time than it takes for me to design, render and animate a character but whatever, true artists try to acknowledge what people will accept and enjoy, not scornfully turn their nose up at it because something they did took more time and effort but didn't appeal to people as much.

And video games are the worst example of that point because DAMN do they take time to make. If one fails it's pretty much game over for quite alot of artists. No pun intended.

I disagree with you, you don't have to angrily reply stating why you think the way you do, but I will not back down on this point, so...save some energy if you feel the need, go outside and knit the largest meme scarf in the world (I seriously want to do this I just don't have enough spare cash for all the wool it would take... Hmmm)

 

[Thespian]

AGAIN, I don't care whether pokemon is art or not. I. Don't. Care. I don't think it is, that's a subjective opinion. You can debate me till your face is red and hell, maybe you're right and I'm just being stubborn. Maybe Pokemon is the greatest artwork ever created by the hands of man, the pinnacle of human achievement from which aliens shall forever remember our race in distant times as a creative spark in the cold depths of space.

Doesn't matter. The question was whether he should argue it with his teacher and the answer to THAT question is no. It's not worth it. He wouldn't have gotten a perfect grade to begin with and honestly I'm skeptical whether she docked any points from the project in the first place. Regardless at the absolute most he's got maybe 5-10% to gain by potentially starting a conflict and bringing other people into this 'debate'. One that could alienate the teacher and which could have long term consequences far greater than the tiny fraction of a percentage he'd be fighting to gain.

Whoa. Whoa whoa. Whoooa. Deep breath. Caaaaalm.

Anywho, yes of course whether or not something is art is subjective opinion.
Your opinion is that it's not.
I disputed that with my own contrary opinion.
This is what we call an argument, or if that sounds too negative, a debate, or discussion.
Now, it appears you actually don't care. To this, I suggest that when you publish an opinion on the internet you prepare for the eventuality that someone takes from that that you do care.
Secondly, yeah I went off on a tangent like that because I disagree with the kind of thinking you brought up. That was just me stating an opinion on something. Whether or not it was 100% relevant to everything else in this thread isn't entirely important is it? I already answered the OPs question in my post and then I just wanted to talk about some of the rather thought-provoking questions raised by way of the topic.
And thirdly, I said he should raise the concern with his teacher because it's a matter of principle. And it is also something that should be changed in the system.
Maybe it would cause trouble for the OP and wouldn't, as you said, raise his score that much.
For me, that is a worthy cost to make a point and stick by it. Especially if you are being told you did something wrong and the assumption is erroneous based on cultural ignorance. So that's just what I'd do. How else am I supposed to answer these questions?

THEN I elaborated on why I would do that and why I think the OP should do that by talking about how Video Games not being considered artforms is unfair.
So, huh, it looks it was all intertwined and perfectly relevant to your point.

I see that if you were in his position, you'd see the cons outweighing the pros and quite understandably would go home satisfied with your 85%. I would not, as I said, on a matter of principle since she clearly docked points for me lacking in the "Clarity of Purpose" department of essay-writing. In my eyes, the OP did absolutely fine in his Clarity of Purpose and the teacher is in the wrong. Wrongs should be righted in order to expand knowledge base. I suppose I'm just scientific like that.

 

[kebab4you]

No, you have no right to be upset about the situation.

You should have asked your teacher if she would accept video games as "art".

If she was one of those, "art" is everything people, then she would have had nothing to say.

Fortunately for the world, it would appear that she has higher criteria for art, and has rightly rejected the idea that a group of people writing software is "art".

Considering that you didn't complete the assignment as instructed, and she still gave you an 85%, I would say you came out of the situation on top.

Oh but film makers/painters/writers are? Give me a break. Games are more art the paintings, books and movies together since it´s all 3 of them + interactive T.T"

OT: Yeah, go search up your student council you´re in full right here.

 

[The Madman]

I see that if you were in his position, you'd see the cons outweighing the pros and quite understandably would go home satisfied with your 85%. I would not, as I said, on a matter of principle since she clearly docked points for me lacking in the "Clarity of Purpose" department of essay-writing. In my eyes, the OP did absolutely fine in his Clarity of Purpose and the teacher is in the wrong. Wrongs should be righted in order to expand knowledge base. I suppose I'm just scientific like that.

I would now. I didn't when I was a kid still in school, and my self-righteousness ended up costing me greatly and I've regretted it ever since. I don't want someone to end up making the same sort of mistake I did and getting into fights with their peers, especially not over something this stupid and trivial.

I'm kinda annoyed by all these people egging on the 'games are art' debate when they're not the ones who might have to deal with the long term consequences of it.

 

[Smurf McSmurfington]

Yep, completely justified, though this has already been said oh so many times, rendering my post here pointless... however that doesn't matter, because BATMAN NANANANANANANA
BATMAN NANANANANANANA
BATMAN BATMAN BATMAN
NANANANANANANANANANANA
BATMAN!

Picking ones nose is punishable by lightbulb.

 

[dickywebster]

Well she cant complain with your example if she didnt specify what counted as art.
You see games as art, so go and take it up with the school.
The worst they can do is not do anything, its not like they can dock marks again as they have no valid excuse.

Though 85% is a gd mark, so depends how far your willing to take it really.

 

[aei_haruko]

The prompt for my essay was "Describe how an artwork has influenced your life." So I wrote my paper about how Pokemon Red got me into video games, and how that has influenced my interest in technology. This was last month. I finally get the paper back, having scored an 85%, which ordinarily I'd be okay with but, on the grade sheet, she wrote "The paper was excellently written but video games are not works of art." She said I had not 'followed the directions properly'. I tried making my case but she would not relent. I'm thinking of going to my counselor, since it makes up like half my quarter grade and I'm kind of pissed about being docked points because she disagrees with me on what is, at best, a semantic argument. Should I?

make the case to her ' what is art?" and then go off saying asking what her definition of art is

 

[Fbuh]

Hell yeah you should be pissed! Go tear her career a new one! How the hell does she have any say on what is art anyway, considering that she's not even an art teacher? Art is everywhere and what you make of it.

 

[spartan231490]

The prompt for my essay was "Describe how an artwork has influenced your life." So I wrote my paper about how Pokemon Red got me into video games, and how that has influenced my interest in technology. This was last month. I finally get the paper back, having scored an 85%, which ordinarily I'd be okay with but, on the grade sheet, she wrote "The paper was excellently written but video games are not works of art." She said I had not 'followed the directions properly'. I tried making my case but she would not relent. I'm thinking of going to my counselor, since it makes up like half my quarter grade and I'm kind of pissed about being docked points because she disagrees with me on what is, at best, a semantic argument. Should I?

1) Mention that games are recognized by that federal institute
2) Threaten to go over her head
3) Win argument
4) Get better grade
5) ???
6) Profit?

 

[Thanatos5150]

The prompt for my essay was "Describe how an artwork has influenced your life." So I wrote my paper about how Pokemon Red got me into video games, and how that has influenced my interest in technology. This was last month. I finally get the paper back, having scored an 85%, which ordinarily I'd be okay with but, on the grade sheet, she wrote "The paper was excellently written but video games are not works of art." She said I had not 'followed the directions properly'. I tried making my case but she would not relent. I'm thinking of going to my counselor, since it makes up like half my quarter grade and I'm kind of pissed about being docked points because she disagrees with me on what is, at best, a semantic argument. Should I?

I'm pretty sure that there is some legal definition out there about video games being works of art.

Almost as if somebody should cite it and present it to their professor.
That would be swell.

Some games are considered art form by the National Endowment for the Arts. Saying all video games are art is as silly as saying that reality TV or documentaries are art. Those are visual media that are forms of journalism, though they may have parts of them which are given artistic direction like graphics, visual and sound editing, etc.

Even if we grant video games as art, and specifically grant Pokemon Red as art, there are problems with his paper. From his synopsis, the OP didn't write about how the art in Pokemon Red influenced him. He wrote about how the technology of Pokemon Red influenced him. If the paper was about how the story of Pokemon Red made him think about the value of loyalty, he'd have more of a leg to stand on.

What he wrote is the thematic equivalent of writing about how one of his parents was crushed by a statue, or a building. It has nothing to do with the pieces as artworks.

Except they are - they're the velvet Elvis Paintings of the entertainment Media art form.
And he said that Pokemon Red got him interested in the medium of video games - and by extension, technology, not that the tech behind Pokemon influenced him.
Similarly, if my parents were crushed by a building, then, yeah, I could easily say that this led me to study the Art of architecture to make it both beautiful and safe.

 

[Darthbawls77]

Funny how i didnt touch on what he should do with his teacher and thats all your response to me really is. Remember just cause you type alot doesnt mean your really saying anything. O and Pokemon is a form of art and/or rather has forms of art in it so its not debatable till we are red in the face its a fact.

I don't care about the 'Pokemon is art' thing. I'm talking to the poster is the hopes that he reads it and has the sense to listen. For someone who types so little you don't really say much and seem to understand even less. The question was whether the OP should argue with his teacher over the grade, I answered that question, whether the game is art or not is irrelevant.

And no, it's not fact. Much smarter people than you or I have been debating what constitutes art for hundreds if not thousands of years. But by all means keep on saying it's fact, again, I really don't care. Maybe you're right, maybe you're wrong, maybe it's all subjective. I still don't care.

Whether Pokemon is art or not is purely subjective. If this (http://www.howard-hodgkin.com/photos/PA144.jpg) is art then why not Pokemon? He has every right to argue that his points shouldn't have been taken off.

He has the right, but is it a smart thing to do? That's the question. And I honestly don't think it's worth potentially starting a feud with a teacher over whatever small percentage of an already great grade he got.

Not worth it!

I mean, if that's the case, more power to you, but why is it the default? Why must "Game" or "Comic" always have the precursor of "Just a" in these discussions?

AGAIN, I don't care whether pokemon is art or not. I. Don't. Care. I don't think it is, that's a subjective opinion. You can debate me till your face is red and hell, maybe you're right and I'm just being stubborn. Maybe Pokemon is the greatest artwork ever created by the hands of man, the pinnacle of human achievement from which aliens shall forever remember our race in distant times as a creative spark in the cold depths of space.

Doesn't matter. The question was whether he should argue it with his teacher and the answer to THAT question is no. It's not worth it. He wouldn't have gotten a perfect grade to begin with and honestly I'm skeptical whether she docked any points from the project in the first place. Regardless at the absolute most he's got maybe 5-10% to gain by potentially starting a conflict and bringing other people into this 'debate'. One that could alienate the teacher and which could have long term consequences far greater than the tiny fraction of a percentage he'd be fighting to gain.

Still at it I see lol. I dont have to say alot to get my point across sorry if it offends you. But anyways I realize what the forum topic is and thats wonderful but I thought I was responding to you on only a certain part of the conversation, yet you keep saying you dont care and talking about what you want to talk about so your right, maybe you are being alittle stubborn. So since you cant seem to just have a conversation or even replay in a sensible way, Ima move on from this posting drama, good luck with your future thread replys.

 

[UnknownGunslinger]

The prompt for my essay was "Describe how an artwork has influenced your life." So I wrote my paper about how Pokemon Red got me into video games, and how that has influenced my interest in technology. This was last month. I finally get the paper back, having scored an 85%, which ordinarily I'd be okay with but, on the grade sheet, she wrote "The paper was excellently written but video games are not works of art." She said I had not 'followed the directions properly'. I tried making my case but she would not relent. I'm thinking of going to my counselor, since it makes up like half my quarter grade and I'm kind of pissed about being docked points because she disagrees with me on what is, at best, a semantic argument. Should I?

That sucks, you should definetly go and speak with your counselor about it
Law is on your side, video games in America are legally recognised as an art form and are protected by your first amendment!
It did happen this June, which is rather recent but if your teacher is a true academic, she should have checked if your claim had any foundations, before lowering your grade.

Keep us posted, games might have only recently been recognised as an Art form in your country but the battle doesn't stop there.
You have the law on your side.
Go enlighten them into the 21st Century

 

[UnknownGunslinger]

You're justified in being pissed, but your teacher is justified in her remark. Unless you're completely dense, you knew full well that claiming a video game is art in an academic paper that would be graded by someone who most likely has never played a video game before would receive a comment of "this isn't art". In which case, you would have gone into the paper knowing that at some point you would have to defend your point, which you did. She didn't go for it, and you should accept that.

You could have bullshitted your way through how a painting made your life better, but you didn't. And now you want to make a teacher's life even tougher by trying to get your counselor on her case about semantics.

You knew this would happen. There was no way you couldn't have known. You made your bed, now sleep in it.

Its not semantics, Games are officially recognised as Art in the US by the Supreme Court and are protected by the First Amendment.
He has every right to use them appropriately as such, and a true Academic would've fact checked before lowering his grade.
Law is on his side in this!