Planescape Torment remake possibly coming after Baldur's Gate remakes.

[Vegosiux]

That would be nice. I never completed the original, but I would be interested to see what they do with the remake. Might be worth checking out. Oh, and if they are reading this: clean up the writing. When I play a game, I don't want to read a book. I want to play a game. So don't make me read pages upon pages every time I talk to someone, 'mkay? Don't do the MGS thing with writing instead of cutscenes.

Dude... You are effectively asking them to cut out the parts that made the game as awesome as it is.
Please don't. We don't need anymore mindless "rpg" button mashers.

Seconded. Yes, the combat in Torment wasn't its strong point, and having to wait for nearly two minutes every time you cast Celestial Host got kind of exhausting, but that's not what the game was about in the first place. Asking to make Torment less reading, more action is like asking to make CoD less shooting, more roleplaying. And we RPG folks don't go about telling people to make shooters to suit us.

 

[BreakfastMan]

Dude... You are effectively asking them to cut out the parts that made the game as awesome as it is.
Please don't. We don't need anymore mindless "rpg" button mashers.

NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO
If you don't like reading too much, then this game is not for you. They just need to make the gameplay as engaging as the story. Bring the gameplay at least on par with Baldur's gate.

No, I am not. I am asking them to make it more like a game instead of a book. Like I would ask Kojima to make his games more like a game instead of a movie. I mean, come on. It got just a little bit ridiculous when I was reading stuff describing the environment that I was looking at. That is at visual novel stage right there. Polish that up, and the game would be much better.

 

[Tayh]

No, I am not. I am asking them to make it more like a game instead of a book. Like I would ask Kojima to make his games more like a game instead of a movie. I mean, come on. It got just a little bit ridiculous when I was reading stuff describing the environment that I was looking at. That is at visual novel stage right there. Polish that up, and the game would be much better.

Not sure if trolling... Or actually serious.

 

[RJ 17]

PS Torment was always one of my favorite games growing up. I'd be willing to pick up a remake of it if for no other reason but to be able to play it again since, somewhere along the way, the game became lost to me. u.u

 

[BreakfastMan]

No, I am not. I am asking them to make it more like a game instead of a book. Like I would ask Kojima to make his games more like a game instead of a movie. I mean, come on. It got just a little bit ridiculous when I was reading stuff describing the environment that I was looking at. That is at visual novel stage right there. Polish that up, and the game would be much better.

Not sure if trolling... Or actually serious.

Serious. The game is fantastically archaic in how it approaches the problem of "Show, Don't Tell". Games are a visual medium, so if we need to get across that something happened, we need to show it, not tell them about it, just like films. The game does not really do this, mainly I estimate because the graphics were to crappy to convey what they wanted. So, they decided to break the "Show, don't tell" rule and tell the player everything in an insane amount of detail instead of leaving it up to the player's imagination. Honestly, it feels insulting that they did not trust the player enough to fill in the blanks for themselves. :/

And, of course, stopping the game to read a novel for a bit is incredibly jarring, just like it is when Kojima stops his game for close to 20 minutes to show a cutscene.

 

[Trotgar]

No, I am not. I am asking them to make it more like a game instead of a book. Like I would ask Kojima to make his games more like a game instead of a movie. I mean, come on. It got just a little bit ridiculous when I was reading stuff describing the environment that I was looking at. That is at visual novel stage right there. Polish that up, and the game would be much better.

I understand your point, but I even liked the descriptions of the environment (and especially characters) because you can't see most of the detail from the isometric point of view. It added a certain depth to it in my opinion, though some it may have been pointless - I haven't played it in a while so I don't remember.

But yeah, I hope that they keep the text, but I dunno, maybe they could add an option to the people who want less text?

The problem with this, though (aside from the fact that it'd probably be quite hard to make) is that some people could just pick that option instead and not even know what the uncut version is like. However, those who surely know they want less text could pick it freely, if you ask me. I do hope they won't remove any text from the people who want to read it all (supposing they even do the remake)

P.S. I've never understood why some people want the game mechanics changed. I liked the combat, and the fact that the characters could actually run before finding some magical boots. The camera could've been positioned a bit higher though. And the bugs do need some fixing.

 

[Terrible Opinions]

Dude... You are effectively asking them to cut out the parts that made the game as awesome as it is.
Please don't. We don't need anymore mindless "rpg" button mashers.

NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO
If you don't like reading too much, then this game is not for you. They just need to make the gameplay as engaging as the story. Bring the gameplay at least on par with Baldur's gate.

No, I am not. I am asking them to make it more like a game instead of a book. Like I would ask Kojima to make his games more like a game instead of a movie. I mean, come on. It got just a little bit ridiculous when I was reading stuff describing the environment that I was looking at. That is at visual novel stage right there. Polish that up, and the game would be much better.

Huge Planescape Torment fanboy though I am, I kinda have to defend this.

He's not asking for less talky bits (I think). He's talking about the large amounts of flavour text that were used to compensate for the limited animation and camera. Like, when you walk up to Ei-Vene, the half-blind tiefling in the mortuary. The game gives you a description of what she looks like and what she's doing because it was incapable of portraying either. That's the sort of thing that should be improved.

That said, some of the "non-dialogue text", like the descriptions that you get when you're in the private sensorium viewing the conversation between Deionarra and The Practical Incarnation, would be nearly impossible to replicate in a more natural way. So... that's probably something you'd have to approach on a case-by-case basis.

 

[BreakfastMan]

Dude... You are effectively asking them to cut out the parts that made the game as awesome as it is.
Please don't. We don't need anymore mindless "rpg" button mashers.

NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO
If you don't like reading too much, then this game is not for you. They just need to make the gameplay as engaging as the story. Bring the gameplay at least on par with Baldur's gate.

No, I am not. I am asking them to make it more like a game instead of a book. Like I would ask Kojima to make his games more like a game instead of a movie. I mean, come on. It got just a little bit ridiculous when I was reading stuff describing the environment that I was looking at. That is at visual novel stage right there. Polish that up, and the game would be much better.

Huge Planescape Torment fanboy though I am, I kinda have to defend this.

He's not asking for less talky bits (I think). He's talking about the large amounts of flavour text that were used to compensate for the limited animation and camera. Like, when you walk up to Ei-Vene, the half-blind tiefling in the mortuary. The game gives you a description of what she looks like and what she's doing because it was incapable of portraying either. That's the sort of thing that should be improved.

EXACTLY. For me, when I played the game, all that extra stuff was incredibly distracting and took me out. I was used (and enjoyed) filling it in for myself in other similar games like BG2 or Icewind Dale. Improve the graphics, cut done on the flavor text, and the game will be much better.

 

[Terrible Opinions]

Dude... You are effectively asking them to cut out the parts that made the game as awesome as it is.
Please don't. We don't need anymore mindless "rpg" button mashers.

NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO
If you don't like reading too much, then this game is not for you. They just need to make the gameplay as engaging as the story. Bring the gameplay at least on par with Baldur's gate.

No, I am not. I am asking them to make it more like a game instead of a book. Like I would ask Kojima to make his games more like a game instead of a movie. I mean, come on. It got just a little bit ridiculous when I was reading stuff describing the environment that I was looking at. That is at visual novel stage right there. Polish that up, and the game would be much better.

Huge Planescape Torment fanboy though I am, I kinda have to defend this.

He's not asking for less talky bits (I think). He's talking about the large amounts of flavour text that were used to compensate for the limited animation and camera. Like, when you walk up to Ei-Vene, the half-blind tiefling in the mortuary. The game gives you a description of what she looks like and what she's doing because it was incapable of portraying either. That's the sort of thing that should be improved.

EXACTLY. For me, when I played the game, all that extra stuff was incredibly distracting and took me out. I was used (and enjoyed) filling it in for myself in other similar games like BG2 or Icewind Dale. Improve the graphics, cut done on the flavor text, and the game will be much better.

And to be clear, I liked all those things. I played PST before I played either Baldur's Gates (still haven't played the Icewind Dales; not my thing), and I really missed a lot of the descriptive text in those games. But the descriptive text was a work-around. It was there to compensate for the limitations of the engine. Given a full-on remake, developers could set those crutches aside. Rather than telling me that the generic female dustie standing beside a generic corpse-on-table is actually a malformed and pitiful creature pecking away at her work with her talons, oblivious to everything else around, a remade game could show it to me.

 

[BreakfastMan]

Dude... You are effectively asking them to cut out the parts that made the game as awesome as it is.
Please don't. We don't need anymore mindless "rpg" button mashers.

NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO
If you don't like reading too much, then this game is not for you. They just need to make the gameplay as engaging as the story. Bring the gameplay at least on par with Baldur's gate.

No, I am not. I am asking them to make it more like a game instead of a book. Like I would ask Kojima to make his games more like a game instead of a movie. I mean, come on. It got just a little bit ridiculous when I was reading stuff describing the environment that I was looking at. That is at visual novel stage right there. Polish that up, and the game would be much better.

Huge Planescape Torment fanboy though I am, I kinda have to defend this.

He's not asking for less talky bits (I think). He's talking about the large amounts of flavour text that were used to compensate for the limited animation and camera. Like, when you walk up to Ei-Vene, the half-blind tiefling in the mortuary. The game gives you a description of what she looks like and what she's doing because it was incapable of portraying either. That's the sort of thing that should be improved.

EXACTLY. For me, when I played the game, all that extra stuff was incredibly distracting and took me out. I was used (and enjoyed) filling it in for myself in other similar games like BG2 or Icewind Dale. Improve the graphics, cut done on the flavor text, and the game will be much better.

And to be clear, I liked all those things. I played PST before I played either Baldur's Gates (still haven't played the Icewind Dales; not my thing), and I really missed a lot of the descriptive text in those games. But the descriptive text was a work-around. It was there to compensate for the limitations of the engine. Given a full-on remake, developers could set those crutches aside. Rather than telling me that the generic female dustie standing beside a generic corpse-on-table is actually a malformed and pitiful creature pecking away at her work with her talons, oblivious to everything else around, a remade game could show it to me.

Yes, I wholeheartedly agree. That was one of the original games faults (the whole "Show, don't tell" thing). Improve that, and I would definitely buy it.

 

[80Maxwell08]

The games actually need an interface overhaul more than they need a graphical facelift. Due to the nature of the infinity engine and the hand-crafted backdrops, they actually stand up surprisingly well if you use them alongside resolution mods. But they're a bit of a chore to play, the infinity engine was never terribly user friendly to begin with, and it hasn't aged well.

On a related note, NWN2 needs a goddam interface overhaul as well. That interface is actually physically painful to endure.

You are in luck since the people doing the remakes are focusing on that. They aren't changing the graphics around but just adding support for more resolutions though they have said they are going to work on the UI a well.

 

[VanBasten]

PS Torment was always one of my favorite games growing up. I'd be willing to pick up a remake of it if for no other reason but to be able to play it again since, somewhere along the way, the game became lost to me. u.u

Why wait for a remake when the real thing is still available

http://www.gog.com/en/gamecard/planescape_torment

 

[Condiments]

That said, some of the "non-dialogue text", like the descriptions that you get when you're in the private sensorium viewing the conversation between Deionarra and The Practical Incarnation, would be nearly impossible to replicate in a more natural way. So... that's probably something you'd have to approach on a case-by-case basis.

It'd be a fine line to walk. Some of the written texts describe things are very difficult to convey through visual medium, and would lose the "feeling" the game had. Given the nature of the isometric view of Planescape, it was very difficult to get a view of things. The descriptions would coincide with what was on screen, often enlivening in a way pure visuals simply can't. Like when you encounter O in the smouldering corpse:

'You see a man, standing stock still. He isn't moving a muscle. On closer examination, it appears that he isn't even breathing -- just standing. His eye sockets are empty holes in his face. Contained within their bounds is a flat gray light that seems to dance with possibility. Looking into the sockets, the eerie, empty feeling of a limitless void shivers through you, as if you had gazed into a sliver of eternity. The head slowly swivels toward you (you notice that no muscles appeared to move under his skin as he turns), and he speaks in a pure, bell-like tone: "Well met, wanderer. You have forgotten again, haven't you?"

"Do you know me, stranger?"

As he opens his mouth, you get that feeling of eternity again -- inside his mouth, you see no tongue, no teeth. It's almost as if this man were a shell surrounding an illimitable expanse. "I have spoken with you before, and always you forget. Your endless quest to discover yourself ends always in your amnesia. You draw close to the truth and recoil. Let us hope that you have the strength to endure your existence."'

On top of stuff like this, you have the memories of your past, like your brutal teachings of ignus, etc. Personally, I would leave the text descriptions, because its at the heart of what makes Planescape truly novel(heh), and would compromise its artistic vision.

 

[teh_gunslinger]

That said, some of the "non-dialogue text", like the descriptions that you get when you're in the private sensorium viewing the conversation between Deionarra and The Practical Incarnation, would be nearly impossible to replicate in a more natural way. So... that's probably something you'd have to approach on a case-by-case basis.

It'd be a fine line to walk. Some of the written texts describe things are very difficult to convey through visual medium, and would lose the "feeling" the game had. Given the nature of the isometric view of Planescape, it was very difficult to get a view of things. The descriptions would coincide with what was on screen, often enlivening in a way pure visuals simply can't. Like when you encounter O in the smouldering corpse:

'You see a man, standing stock still. He isn't moving a muscle. On closer examination, it appears that he isn't even breathing -- just standing. His eye sockets are empty holes in his face. Contained within their bounds is a flat gray light that seems to dance with possibility. Looking into the sockets, the eerie, empty feeling of a limitless void shivers through you, as if you had gazed into a sliver of eternity. The head slowly swivels toward you (you notice that no muscles appeared to move under his skin as he turns), and he speaks in a pure, bell-like tone: "Well met, wanderer. You have forgotten again, haven't you?"

"Do you know me, stranger?"

As he opens his mouth, you get that feeling of eternity again -- inside his mouth, you see no tongue, no teeth. It's almost as if this man were a shell surrounding an illimitable expanse. "I have spoken with you before, and always you forget. Your endless quest to discover yourself ends always in your amnesia. You draw close to the truth and recoil. Let us hope that you have the strength to endure your existence."'

On top of stuff like this, you have the memories of your past, like your brutal teachings of ignus, etc. Personally, I would leave the text descriptions, because its at the heart of what makes Planescape truly novel(heh), and would compromise its artistic vision.

You just made my post for me. Thanks, internet person!

I want to add though: that flavour text made the game, for me at least. It was like when the GM describes a scene. I loved it. It made for so many nuances that can't be made otherwise.

And besides, the game still looks great. Apply the wide screen mod, Ghost Dogs UI, the tweak pack and you're golden.

Edit: I'd also argue that Show, Don't Tell, is more of a guide line and not a rule. I think it's good to break it sometimes, but you got to be sure why you're breaking it and how you're breaking it.

Chris Remo told of his music teacher in college, telling them that the reason they had to learn all the mechanics and rules of classical music was not so they only did that. It was so when they did break those rules they knew why they did it and how they did it. I thought that was an important lesson.

 

[Terrible Opinions]

That said, some of the "non-dialogue text", like the descriptions that you get when you're in the private sensorium viewing the conversation between Deionarra and The Practical Incarnation, would be nearly impossible to replicate in a more natural way. So... that's probably something you'd have to approach on a case-by-case basis.

It'd be a fine line to walk. Some of the written texts describe things are very difficult to convey through visual medium, and would lose the "feeling" the game had. Given the nature of the isometric view of Planescape, it was very difficult to get a view of things. The descriptions would coincide with what was on screen, often enlivening in a way pure visuals simply can't. Like when you encounter O in the smouldering corpse:

'You see a man, standing stock still. He isn't moving a muscle. On closer examination, it appears that he isn't even breathing -- just standing. His eye sockets are empty holes in his face. Contained within their bounds is a flat gray light that seems to dance with possibility. Looking into the sockets, the eerie, empty feeling of a limitless void shivers through you, as if you had gazed into a sliver of eternity. The head slowly swivels toward you (you notice that no muscles appeared to move under his skin as he turns), and he speaks in a pure, bell-like tone: "Well met, wanderer. You have forgotten again, haven't you?"

"Do you know me, stranger?"

As he opens his mouth, you get that feeling of eternity again -- inside his mouth, you see no tongue, no teeth. It's almost as if this man were a shell surrounding an illimitable expanse. "I have spoken with you before, and always you forget. Your endless quest to discover yourself ends always in your amnesia. You draw close to the truth and recoil. Let us hope that you have the strength to endure your existence."'

On top of stuff like this, you have the memories of your past, like your brutal teachings of ignus, etc. Personally, I would leave the text descriptions, because its at the heart of what makes Planescape truly novel(heh), and would compromise its artistic vision.

Like I said, case-by-case. O is a great example of where text works well to describe something that can not be properly depicted (which is not to say that you couldn't do a good job of that scene without any description with visual and sound effects, but you'd probably lose a little bit in the translation). Same goes for the stone in the private sensorium with Deionarra's memory.

But there are a lot of things that just don't have that. I've used Ei-Vene as an example a few times. There is no single thing about the text pertaining to her that can not be replaced with something more tangible. In a "proper remake", there would be no need to say "Annah's tail stopped" when she met Ravel. We would see it well enough; the text would just look silly. If I can see Dak'kon's sword just fine, telling me what it looks like is pointless.

 

[Vegosiux]

In a "proper remake", there would be no need to say "Annah's tail stopped" when she met Ravel. We would see it well enough; the text would just look silly.

See, yes. Notice the significance of it to the same degree? I'm inclined to think "no".

 

[Terrible Opinions]

In a "proper remake", there would be no need to say "Annah's tail stopped" when she met Ravel. We would see it well enough; the text would just look silly.

See, yes. Notice the significance of it to the same degree? I'm inclined to think "no".

That's... kinda why I brought it up. And that's the sort of thing that BreakfastMan was talking about, not making the game "more action".

EDIT: Granted, I don't know what he thinks about O and the like, or if he even remembers those bits.

 

[BreakfastMan]

In a "proper remake", there would be no need to say "Annah's tail stopped" when she met Ravel. We would see it well enough; the text would just look silly.

See, yes. Notice the significance of it to the same degree? I'm inclined to think "no".

Oh, their are many ways to pull that off. Some good cinematography for the scene could easily carry the same weight. If you wanted to keep it at an isometric view, have her in an animation that has her constantly swinging her tail (make it fairly obvious) until she meets Ravel, then switch to an animation that has her tail stop. It seems to me like it would carry the same significance. I mean, if a FF game can convey similar things with simple chibi character models, I think the devs could do the same with PS:T.

Edit: I'd also argue that Show, Don't Tell, is more of a guide line and not a rule. I think it's good to break it sometimes, but you got to be sure why you're breaking it and how you're breaking it.

True, but the thing is, when you break it, it has to be used sparingly. Like the notes in Silent Hill, or the codex in Mass Effect. Breaking it often, with nearly very single conversation, like PS:T seemed to do is pretty much overkill and plain old bad design in this day and age.

 

[Vegosiux]

True, but the thing is, when you break it, it has to be used sparingly. Like the notes in Silent Hill, or the codex in Mass Effect. Breaking it often, with nearly very single conversation, like PS:T seemed to do is pretty much overkill and plain old bad design in this day and age.

I'd invoke the grandfather clause here, really. A disguise that consists basically of glasses and nothing else is plain old bad in this day and age. But, I don't see Clark Kent going for something different even in modern Superman movies.

PS: T was designed in a certain time, and it's the spirit of that time that makes it what it is. Yes, I'm a pretentious snob when it comes to this, but part of its appeal was the reading. Then picturing the scene in your mind. Having those scenes replaced by more cinematic ones would not bode well for them, since the way they were in PS: T, it was your imagination that pictured it, and that way, it was truly your story. Even if your imagination consisted fully of stuff with large tits that lactate creamed rice (dammit Yahtzee, you just had to, didn't you!)

 

[teh_gunslinger]

In a "proper remake", there would be no need to say "Annah's tail stopped" when she met Ravel. We would see it well enough; the text would just look silly.

See, yes. Notice the significance of it to the same degree? I'm inclined to think "no".

Oh, their are many ways to pull that off. Some good cinematography for the scene could easily carry the same weight. If you wanted to keep it at an isometric view, have her in an animation that has her constantly swinging her tail (make it fairly obvious) until she meets Ravel, then switch to an animation that has her tail stop. It seems to me like it would carry the same significance. I mean, if a FF game can convey similar things with simple chibi character models, I think the devs could do the same with PS:T.

Edit: I'd also argue that Show, Don't Tell, is more of a guide line and not a rule. I think it's good to break it sometimes, but you got to be sure why you're breaking it and how you're breaking it.

True, but the thing is, when you break it, it has to be used sparingly. Like the notes in Silent Hill, or the codex in Mass Effect. Breaking it often, with nearly very single conversation, like PS:T seemed to do is pretty much overkill and plain old bad design in this day and age.

I've not played any Silent Hill games, so I can't comment on that. As for the Codex in Mass Effect it was pretty much an info dump. I've never opened the Codex in any ME game, nor in Dragon Age. I suppose I could argue that it gives flavour. And it's fine it's there for them who want it. No skin off my nose.

I disagree that a breaking need to be done sparingly. That completely depends on what you're going for. If, like I'd argue they were, you're taking the PS:T route and using it to convey emotions, settings, feelings and subtle nuances, I've no issue with going full hog on it.

And while you're correct in saying that it probably would come across as weird design today, it should be noted that PS:T was not designed today. And I'll not call it bad design if made today. Weird, yes. Bad, no. Again, it depends on what you're going for.

You mention showing Anas tail stopping via cinematography. Sure, that's possible. But really, games are so very ham fisted when it comes to that. Try as devs might, subtlety is quite outside their reach. Aside from that, some people might not pick up on it. If you're making a game as literary as PS:T you're doing yourself a disservice by relying on dodgy animations and cinematography.